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An answer on another question tells of a way to turn planeswalkers into creatures:

Basically you start by playing the Mycosynth Lattice which turns all your permanents into artifacts, this includes Planeswalker.

Then you play March Of the Machines turning your Planeswalker into an artifact creature with power and toughness equal to it's casting cost.

What are the ramifications of doing this? In particular, I'm curious about the answers to the following sub-questions:

  • Can the loyalty abilities still be activated?
    • Can they be activated after the creature has attacked? (ie. during the 2nd main phase)
  • Does the creature die if it's loyalty hits 0?
  • Does the creature die if it has lethal damage counted on it?
  • Can damage applied to the creature be directed to apply to the loyalty, on only counted as damage on the creature? (ie. counted against it's toughness)
  • Since the permanent is still a planeswalker, can it still be attacked like a normal planewalker? (ie. a creature attacking the planeswalker instead of me, the player)

Is there any other interesting fallout of converting a planeswalker into a creature that I'm missing?

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cdeszaq
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    Note that the creature dies if its loyalty hits zero, but the question also mentioned giving a different creature planeswalker abilities - that creature doesn't die for having 0 loyalty. – corsiKa Jul 02 '13 at 20:24
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    Gideon, Champion of Justice turns into a creature naturally. The rulings regarding him answer a lot of the things you want to know. – bengoesboom Mar 02 '14 at 01:41
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    Note that with Mycosynth Lattice + March Of the Machines, all lands become 0/0 creatures (since they have CMC 0) and die from state based effects unless there is some static effect boosting their toughness – Zags Nov 25 '14 at 03:49
  • @Zags, An interesting strategy comes from this if you have a way to turn your lands into creatures before dropping this combo... It's always fun to wipe out opponents' land. – cdeszaq Nov 25 '14 at 15:54
  • @cdeszaq or just have one of the various anthems (Glorious Anthem, Gaea's Anthem, Marshal's Anthem) and your lands survive while theirs don't – Zags Nov 25 '14 at 16:55

1 Answers1

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Can the loyalty abilities still be activated?
Can they be activated after the creature has attacked? (ie. during the 2nd main phase)

Yes and yes. Nothing stops loyalty abilities from being activated just because Planeswalker is not the only type on the card. Actually, nothing stops a loyalty ability from being activated even if the permanent has not the Planeswalker type. Also, a loyalty ability doesn't include the tap simbol, so it doesn't matter if the creature is tapped or has summoning sickness.

Does the creature die if it's loyalty hits 0?

Yes:

704.5i If a planeswalker has loyalty 0, it’s put into its owner’s graveyard.

Does the creature die if it has lethal damage counted on it?

Yes:

704.5g If a creature has toughness greater than 0, and the total damage marked on it is greater than or equal to its toughness, that creature has been dealt lethal damage and is destroyed. Regeneration can replace this event.

Can damage applied to the creature be directed to apply to the loyalty, on only counted as damage on the creature? (ie. counted against it's toughness)

It counts for both. So if the creature-planeswalker is dealt two damage, you remove two loyalty counters and mark two damage on it (remember that damage does not reduce thoughness).

Since the permanent is still a planeswalker, can it still be attacked like a normal planewalker? (ie. a creature attacking the planeswalker instead of me, the player)

Yes. Planeswalkers can be attacked by creatures. There is no exception in the rules for a planeswalker that is also a creature.

As a wrap-up: to a permanent that is both a creature and a planeswalker, both rules for creatures and rules for planeswalkers apply.

doppelgreener
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  • 100% correct. The rules for the last answer are: 119.3, 119.3c and 119.3e – ikegami Jul 02 '13 at 00:41
  • I've added this to my question as a follow-up, since I didn't realize that the creature type was added, so it was a Creature Planeswalker: "Since the permanent is still a planeswalker, can it still be attacked like a normal planewalker? (ie. a creature attacking the planeswalker instead of me, the player)" – cdeszaq Jul 02 '13 at 17:42
  • Given that regeneration can "solve" lethal damage, does a regen shield on Creature Planeswalker keep it on the battlefield? Or does it entirely depend on the state of the loyalty counters? – cdeszaq Jul 02 '13 at 17:56
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    @cdeszaq Regeneration won't help if the planeswalker has loyalty 0. Notice how rule 704.5g does say that regeneration can replace it, but rule 704.5i does not. – Pablo Jul 02 '13 at 19:05
  • Even if a regeneration effect prevented it from being destroyed, the next time SBEs were checked it would get destroyed again. Either you continue this process until you can no longer pay for regeneration, or it's an infinite loop which you either must break or draw the game. – corsiKa Jul 02 '13 at 20:23
  • @corsiKa Correct! I should've worded it better. "Damage to a planeswalker applies to loyalty regardless of its other types, even if it's combat damage received while acting like a creature..." – Alex P Jul 03 '13 at 14:27
  • Game design minutia (updated): notice how, because damage to a planeswalker applies to its loyalty, even if it's combat damage received from attacking and blocking like a creature, all the planeswalkers that "animate" themselves (the two Gideons) have "Prevent all damage that would be dealt to him this turn." – Alex P Jul 03 '13 at 14:30
  • @AlexP Remind me again why beginners have a hard time learning Magic? Does it have anything to do with the 206 page rule book? (I just want to the comp rules and hit ctrl p, it said 206. That's just... insane...) – corsiKa Jul 03 '13 at 14:34
  • @Pablo I figured it was something like that! Code blocks don't make a good substitute for quotes, though, since they don't word-wrap, and they behave much differently on mobile. I think it's OK since there's only two rules quotes, and I've tried to separate the individual questions via horizontal rules. – doppelgreener Mar 01 '14 at 11:12
  • @Pablo, More importantly, regeneration replaces destruction and removes lethal damage. A Planeswalker with 0 loyalty isn't destroyed, it's simply put into the graveyard. – Brian S Mar 03 '14 at 15:13
  • Also, I might point out that a Planeswalker Creature could potentially block for itself (ie, opponent attacks Creature-Walker, Creature-Walker blocks). While it generally wouldn't accomplish much since the combat damage would still be dealt, there are a number of cards which interact with combat where this would be advantageous. – Brian S Mar 03 '14 at 15:15
  • @corsiKa That's not really fair, it's not strictly necessary for a beginner to know all the minutiae of the Comprehensive Rules. The 36 page basic rulebook is good enough. :) If there are any questions with specific card interactions, in 99% of cases the cards can be simply looked up on gatherer rulings without referencing the Comprehensive rules. – ghoppe Mar 04 '14 at 18:04
  • @ghoppe Well I think 36 pages of "basic" rules is also pretty intimidating. I think it really is fair to say that Magic's complexity (as evidenced by its insane number of rules) is its barrier to entry. Can you think of a higher barrier to entry than Magic's complexity? – corsiKa Mar 04 '14 at 18:59
  • @corsiKa Although it's only the first 17 pages that cover the basics of the page, I agree that magic's complexity is a bit of a barrier. Wizards tried a dumbed-down version, Portal, and it was a failure, because it wasn't strictly compatible with standard cards. What's another alternative? Lose the comprehensive foundation upon which we logically determine how the thousands of cards interact? I think Duels of the Planeswalkers on iPad/PC/XBox has gone a long way to reducing the barrier of entry. – ghoppe Mar 04 '14 at 19:06