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So, today a colleague of mine from Marketing came by my desk to ask for some input with regards to technical information about our products. This is not our first conversation - the previous ones have always been professional and cordial.

It so happens that I could not help noticing that her skirt for the day was quite short and tight. As she started the conversation standing (while I was seated), her hemline was close to my eye level and I have to admit that my gaze flickered that way once or twice although I was really trying my best to keep my eyes on her face.

I then suggested that she grab a chair from an empty, neighboring desk. It helped a little, but my gaze did flicker again as she crossed/ uncrossed her legs a few times, unconsciously I would guess.

In any case, I think the conversation was productive and she got the information she needed, but I can't help feeling guilty about my wandering gaze which she might have felt was offensive or made her feel uncomfortable. I don't know if she noticed but I am inclined to believe that she did.

My question is this: should I try to clear the air by apologizing to her for my possibly-unprofessional behavior, or simply ignore the incident and keep mum about it? If the former, how should I go about doing that?

Joe Strazzere
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Xenocacia
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    @Luceos: Good point! My colleague is from Czech if I recall correctly, whilst I am Singaporean Chinese (we work in Singapore). I have no idea what her cultural preconceptions are like, but I am tend to be reserved and concerned with propriety (think Asian stereotypes, perhaps?) – Xenocacia Mar 06 '17 at 07:27
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    I've put a [tag:cultural-sensitivity] tag on this as I believe this is more of a cultural question than of sexual harassment. –  Mar 06 '17 at 08:39
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    I guess there is a reason why gentlemen should stand up when a lady enters the room... – mustaccio Mar 06 '17 at 23:54
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    If she is Czech she is quite likely to have either ignored it or found it a compliment. We're not quite as far in the de-humanization of human interaction as most of the west and sexual harassment still means actually harassing someone (catcalling, unwanted touching, abusing a position of power) as opposed to noticing a guy wore tight jeans that make his ass look good or a woman wore a short skirt. Don't leer and don't behave like a pig and you're most likely to be fine. – DRF Mar 07 '17 at 10:03
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    In the future, always stand up when a woman enters the room and greet her. That will prevent a recurrence. – Mike Vonn Mar 07 '17 at 19:53
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    It interests me that the upshot of the responses is that any fault in a situation like this is 100% the bloke's fault for "being treated as a life support system for mammary glands:" the topmost upvoted answer does not recognize that the OP was trying to act appropriately in response to provocative dress, provocative even by the fellow employee's usual standard. – Christos Hayward Mar 07 '17 at 20:07
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    Woman here. If I wear a short skirt I know what effect it could have. If I dislike that effect too much, I will not wear it (unless forced to by uniform). If I wear it and feel uncomfortable with someones gazes I first see it as my responsibility to cover or make it less obvious, because I was the one putting it on in the morning. As long as you are not obnoxiously behaving like a hunter who just smelled prey I should be fine. – skymningen Mar 09 '17 at 08:41
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    @DRF “We're not quite as far in the de-humanization of human interaction as most of the west and sexual harassment still means actually harassing someone” I will be borrowing this one occasionally. Thanks! – nl-x Nov 07 '18 at 23:10

11 Answers11

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To give a woman's perspective, I have had anything from occasional glances to out and out staring at my chest while talking to male colleagues or clients in a professional setting. I don't enjoy being treated as a life support system for mammary glands. But as long as it is only the occasional involuntary glance and are paying attention to what I am saying, respecting my skills and experience and not making me uncomfortable by spending more time looking at my body than my face, then I don't take offence.

Of course, each woman is different, but it's usually a matter of respecting us as professionals, not as an object. If you were treating this woman as a valuable colleague and have done so during your working relationship, then I'm sure it was fine :)

Jane S
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how do I not come off as a creep?

If your gaze-wandering was as minimal as you say, you probably didn't. This is especially true if you've already had "professional and cordial" interactions with her, so she knows you as more than that guy who kept looking at my legs.

I don't know if she noticed but I am inclined to believe that she did.

You're right; she probably did, but she could probably also tell if you were "really trying [your] best to keep [your] eyes on her face," which reduces the chances that you made her uncomfortable.

Asking her to pull up a chair was a good idea in any case--if nothing else, it's generally easier to have a conversation with someone at the same height as you.

I can't help feeling guilty about my wandering gaze

Kudos to you for noticing you do this and trying to stop! You should carry that laudable effort into the rest of your life--keep doing this when you're interacting with women at the store, on the bus, on the sidewalk, in the rest of the office, etc.

Not only is it good to treat non-colleagues as respectfully as you treat your colleagues, but with things like this, it's important to train yourself in the habits of keeping your gaze in check. You're not going to be able to always look your colleagues in the face if you're ogling every woman you see on the street, so if you have been doing that, this is your reason to cut it out.

should I try to clear the air by apologizing to her for my possibly-unprofessional behavior, or simply ignore the incident and keep mum about it?

Definitely keep mum. If you were honestly working to keep looking her in the face, you didn't do anything wrong. If she did feel uncomfortable, I don't think bringing it up will make her more comfortable. The way to do that is to just go ahead and be impeccably respectful and professional in the future.

MissMonicaE
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Definitely do not go to HR and create a problem where there isn't one.

Free life advice: I would urge you to train yourself to be respectful in the workplace and focus on looking a woman in the eye.

For some, eye contact is uncomfortable and in that case, focus on the area between her eyes (this worked for me as an awkward young man).

As a side note, if a woman is uncomfortable with the occasional glances, a minor adjustment to a professional conservative work attire usually can fix this.

Maintaining Eye Contact

Although the standard advice is to maintain good eye contact throughout the conversation, don’t take this to mean that you should stare fixedly at the other person. Maintain eye contact in a natural and friendly manner, which means that there are brief breaks and reconnections. For instance, it would seem natural to look away briefly if you have to pause to think about your answer. Then reconnect strongly as you begin to speak.

The advice above references an interview, the same concept can be used here too.

Neo
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    I'm not your down-voter but your last sentence is troublesome in that you place responsibility on the woman for how men will behave. One is responsible for one's own behavior and response to others in every situation. – M.Mat Mar 06 '17 at 18:50
  • This content is really much more of a conversation but I have a question: What do you mean by 'proactive?' 'Revealing' is clear but proactive indicates positive action in a particular, progressive fashion. In any case, this ought to be continued in chat. Also I think we should have a new topic heading: SEXISM. I notice it comes up frequently in different areas here on the site. – M.Mat Mar 06 '17 at 19:07
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    @M.Mat I mis-spelled a word, and it was too late to correct it, so here goes: Well, if a person ( forget about gender ) decides to wear provocative / revealing clothing, you are going to generate more glances your way --period. I don't see how my last sentence implies any blame -- its just reality. – Neo Mar 06 '17 at 19:11
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    @MisterSortOfPositive It doesn't help the asker, though, and it's distracting from the rest of your answer, which is helpful. – MissMonicaE Mar 06 '17 at 20:07
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    @MissMonicaE Noted, answer updated. – Neo Mar 07 '17 at 02:29
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    Constant unbroken eye contact is unusual and unnerving, whether real or "feigned" (ie: looking at the top of their nose). It's normal to continually make and break eye contact during a conversation. – Grimm The Opiner Mar 07 '17 at 10:31
  • @GrimmTheOpiner Noted, answer updated. – Neo Mar 07 '17 at 13:14
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    Upvoted...For the last sentence. – Anwar Mar 07 '17 at 14:43
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    @M.Mat To a degree, but if a man or woman came into an office naked, they'd probably get lots of stares. The level of staring will decrease in proportion to the amount of clothing worn. I don't think there's a man in the world who could stop his gaze from flicking to the hemline of a woman in a short skirt two feet away from him, even if it's just for a moment. Most women would probably be distracted by a well toned man in a muscle shirt. It's just biology at play, not the end of the world. What's inappropriate is letting that gaze linger, and that's where the self control comes in. – SethWhite Mar 07 '17 at 20:44
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    @M.Mat Yes, if a man gazes, he's responsible for gazing. But if a woman wears provocative clothing, she's responsible for doing something provocative. Neither one is okay in the workplace. Why does a woman get a pass for choosing not to dress modestly but the man can't be excused for an inappropriate response? This constitutes a double standard. Either they're both excusable or they're both not. – jpmc26 Mar 08 '17 at 01:22
  • The best advice I have seen for eye contact is to generally let your gaze wander around the triangle between eyes and shoulders, occasionally looking away entirely for space. – Bradd Szonye Mar 08 '17 at 02:42
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    @jpmc26 No, a man is still responsible for WHATEVER he does just as a woman is. You are confusing culpability for responsibility and your statement comes dangerously close to the old saw of blaming female rape victims because of how they were dressed. Not to mention, two wrongs don't make a right. Whatever a woman is wearing--or not wearing, is neither implicit or explicit "permission" for men to behave badly. – M.Mat Mar 08 '17 at 04:28
  • https://mic.com/articles/141781/here-are-9-times-clothing-was-blamed-for-sexual-assault-rather-than-the-obvious#.jv2EGc8SE http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/06/opinion/costello-provocative-clothes-dont-cause-rape/ https://www.dailydot.com/via/chrissie-hynde-victim-blaming-rape/ – M.Mat Mar 08 '17 at 04:29
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    @M.Mat "a man is still responsible for WHATEVER he does just as a woman is" That is exactly what I said. "is neither implicit or explicit 'permission' for men to behave badly" I implied this as well. But that doesn't answer the question: why does a woman get a pass for dressing provocatively? Why is this even considered as candidate appropriate behavior in the workplace? – jpmc26 Mar 08 '17 at 06:25
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    @jpmc26 First and foremost, we do not actually know how the woman in the OP is dressed. We can have wildly different opinions on what is appropriate or 'provocative' attire. Any comments on what is or is not appropriate in this instance are subjective. Regardless of how a woman is dressed, men in a professional setting (or any setting) have the responsibility to behave in a respectful, decent, civilized manner. If a man crosses the line of decency, he is responsible. – M.Mat Mar 08 '17 at 06:40
  • ...Management is responsible for enforcing dress codes and appropriate workplace behavior. And all people are responsible for their own behavior in any given situation. – M.Mat Mar 08 '17 at 06:41
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    @M.Mat If someone potentially behaves inappropriately and thereby elicits equally or less inappropriate responses - who is truly to blame? It's like saying colleagues shouldn't laugh at me if I come to work wearing the ugliest sweater in the world. – Weckar E. Mar 08 '17 at 08:56
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Don't worry about it. Sometimes it would be almost rude NOT to notice after a woman has gone to a lot of effort to make herself look great. It doesn't have to have any sexual connotations at all. Although happily married I quite openly comment positively on women's looks, clothing and even hairdo's. They invariably take it in the way it was meant, as a compliment.

But in any case you did nothing untoward and there is no apology necessary.

Kilisi
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    Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation about sexual harassment and related issues has been moved to chat. Continue the discussion there, not here. The two undeleted comments above provide an overview. – Monica Cellio Mar 07 '17 at 03:21
  • Take discussion to chat. Comments that do not request clarification or otherwise try to directly improve the post will be deleted. – Monica Cellio Mar 07 '17 at 03:34
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    It was always about keeping the main site tidy. I was going to purge them when I saw all the flags but moved them to chat as a favor to the people having the discussion. – Monica Cellio Mar 07 '17 at 03:40
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    The way to pass a compliment without being creepy is to be sincere and disinterested. I picture Kilisi complimenting a coworker's looks while coming by in a hallway or at the water cooler, then walking away like nothing happened. If you do not show second intentions with body language and do not send down a barrage of compliments, it will not be misunderstood. – Mindwin Remember Monica Mar 09 '17 at 14:03
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Give yourself a little more credit here. At a basic functional level she was comfortable in that attire around you, which all else being equal is a sign that she trusts you enough for you to not be a creep around her wearing a skirt. It doesn't matter to her whether you glanced at all, and it doesn't matter whether it was accidental or intentional. She was probably expecting a glance, and it doesn't mean she's flattered or wants the attention, just that a glance was not going to ruin her day.

But, what will make her panic is if you do pretty much any of the following:

  • try apologizing to her 7 times
  • and then ask 14 more times if your apology was properly accepted
  • think you're friends now, now that she was near you in a skirt
  • ask her out on a date because she was near you in a skirt
  • act overly cold around her to prove your lack of attraction (...and therefore become a colleague who is impossible to function with)
  • go to other coworkers, boss, HR, etc. making it out to be some spectacle or disaster that her skirt was attractive to you

Is a glance okay?

Honestly I think so, and for what it's worth I'm pretty much a feminist card-carrying SJW (political campaigning, rallies, fundraisers for Planned Parenthood, arguing on the internet...)

One reason women like dressing like this is because sometimes women like working for companies where they can wear what they are just most comfortable in. This means if you work at a somewhat progressive company you're going to deal with guys being comfortable wearing t-shirts and girls being comfortable wearing skirts. You're also going to deal with some guys who look damn good wearing a suit and some women who look damn good in a form-fitting business outfit. There is a line culturally (no speedos or bikinis at present) but the trend right now might be for short skirts to be no big deal, and if it means she doesn't have to change to go out that night then I'm sure she appreciates it.

A woman is going to expect glances from time to time. I would not say she is "flattered" or "complimented" but just that a glance from a colleague of the respective gender and orientation is going to be part of her life sometimes. You can do her a favor by just handling it when you do.

You can handle glancing at a woman's chest/butt/etc. with the following three easy steps:

  1. Feel a little embarrassed or ashamed. (But not too much, you're going to put this all behind you very soon.)
  2. Say nothing or possibly give a micro-apology like "my bad" or "sorry can we go over that one more time?" [implying you dozed off and were not being intentional]
  3. Return to the topic at hand while making eye contact.

This is important: leering, gawking, staring, etc. are not okay. You have "permission" to glance at a colleague because you weren't paying attention for 2 seconds, or something. You do not at all have permission to knowingly look, or to communicate to her that you feel comfortable looking. Roughly speaking if it wasn't intentional it's fine, but that's more because doing so intentionally is quite a strong statement to make to her, and one that you do not want to be making.

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    I think there's a difference between taking a peek and accidentally glancing. Taking a peek sounds more intentional. – Tiny Giant Mar 07 '17 at 01:39
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    There's a big difference between "Oh look a short skit, let me just take a peek", and "Oh darn, I accidentally glanced at how short her skirt was". I think it definitely does matter how intentional something is. – Tiny Giant Mar 07 '17 at 01:47
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    It's not about showing the person how accidental it is. It's about portraying here how accidental it was. What you're saying here makes it seem like more than what the OP makes it seem. There is a difference between what an accidental glance and an intentional peek look like. Taking a peek would be a bad thing, accidentally glancing would not be as bad if the person was making an effort not to and it just happened. – Tiny Giant Mar 07 '17 at 01:56
  • In other words, I disagree with your wording here because I don't think that "taking a peek" would ever be OK. – Tiny Giant Mar 07 '17 at 01:58
  • @TinyGiant I updated that sentence though (since you are right that the presentation was wrong). –  Mar 07 '17 at 02:17
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    "You had some mutual comfort in how she dressed" sorry, but no, no no. The OP obviously had extreme discomfort, he got put on a guilt trip strong enough to post his question here. – AnoE Mar 07 '17 at 12:02
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    @AnoE had time so gave it another rewrite. more honest about the fact that OP probably does not feel much comfort when it happened –  Mar 08 '17 at 04:32
  • I think Seinfeld put it best: "It's like looking at the sun. You just glance, get a quick sense of it, then look away." – Omegacron Mar 09 '17 at 01:58
  • @Omegacron lol that episode is of course exactly on this topic –  Mar 09 '17 at 01:58
  • I was right up with you until this sentence: "You do not at all have permission to knowingly look, or to communicate to her that you feel comfortable looking.". I don't know why permission was brought into this. You realistically have permission to look at anybody in anyway you want. Whether or not it's socially or professionally acceptable is a different story. Also it seems like you're insinuating that people should never intentionally look at someone who is attractive, in a manner that suggests attraction.. – ballBreaker Mar 09 '17 at 16:46
  • Unless I am confused here with what is meant as "knowingly look". If you mean looking up this woman's skirt, then I retract my statement. – ballBreaker Mar 09 '17 at 16:49
  • @ballBreaker can you clarify what you mean by permission? it is very much possible to look at someone in any number of manners of ways without their permission. a woman wearing a short skirt is not her way of telling you to leer and stare at her all you want, is what I'm trying to say, and I used the word "permission" to sum this up... sounds fine to me. –  Mar 09 '17 at 17:38
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As long as you acted professionally, there is nothing wrong with "appreciating" an attractive member of the opposite sex.

So don't apologize. You did nothing wrong.

Jim G.
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It sounds like it was an awkward moment. Just put it behind you, but next time stand up instead of asking her to sit. Out of view, out of sight.

Janie
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I would not do anything, as others have answered. This seems like a one-off event. It sounds like you're mildly attracted to her, which is to be expected at some point in your many years of work. Just don't make people feel uncomfortable. Fashion, especially women's fashion, can be unintentionally revealing, even when the wearer is innocent. And for the record, women can stare at men, just as much as men can stare at women.

The only reason I would suggest going to HR is if this woman has a habit of wearing too short, too tight skirts that don't fit the company dress code. Or she regularly wears clothes that are objectively more revealing than what other women (or men) at the company wear.

user70848
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You need to keep shtumm and work on your self-control, but it sounds like you're in the clear based on the effort you say you made. BUT, why was her hemline at your eye-level?? In the future step up and suggest a change of venue. Or simply stand up. And of course get used to the fact that short skirts and marketing go hand in hand. And it's not your place to go to HR about her skirt length. Do not do that.

user3131341
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    Can you clarify that first sentence? I was not able to understand enough to even make a meaningful edit. – JasonJ Mar 29 '17 at 17:46
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While other answers suggest not to do anything, I would suggest a different approach: gently tell her that her outfit is not appropriate for the office. Of course, that's assuming that her dress was too short.

donjuedo
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BЈовић
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    I don't think this answer is helpful or fair. "Appropriate" dress code could depend on the job type (ex: police person) but it should certainly not depend on arbitrary opinions from a colleague at the office. – armatita Mar 06 '17 at 13:36
  • @armatita Assuming OP is not working in police, where people wear uniforms, but in a company. Regardless whether a company has a dress code or not, coming inappropriate dressed to work is not acceptable in most places. – BЈовић Mar 06 '17 at 13:40
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    The thing is: "inappropriate" is largely a matter of individual perspective. Following that notion you could also forbid t-shirts, eccentric haircuts, piercings, tattoos, sandals, or any other feature of a persons right to individuality. Simply disliking something cannot be a valid motive to forbid it. – armatita Mar 06 '17 at 13:49
  • @armatita Coming to work wearing flip flops, mini skirt, or similar shit, is simply inappropriate. That has nothing with individuality or whatever you call it. A woman can dress nicely, without having to show her "attributes". This woman in OP's question obviously crossed the line. – BЈовић Mar 06 '17 at 14:06
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    I mean, employers can "forbid t-shirts, eccentric haircuts, piercings, tattoos, sandals," or whatever attire they like. If someone is violating whatever dress code your office has, their manager should tell them. Whether or not they are, it's not for a peer to tell them. – MissMonicaE Mar 06 '17 at 14:07
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    This would benefit greatly from an explanation as to how to tell the colleague. Especially considering how sensitive of a subject this often is in many cultures. – enderland Mar 06 '17 at 14:28
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    This is way too sensitive for a co-worker to bring up, her manager or an HR person needs to handle this conversation. – Neo Mar 06 '17 at 16:10
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    @BЈовић "Coming to work wearing flip flops, mini skirt, or similar shit, is simply inappropriate" Except flip flops, and super casual work attire is an integral part of the culture of many work places. Especially in the tech industry – Cruncher Mar 06 '17 at 16:25
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    Controlling what people wear at work where a uniform or dress-code suitable for customer relations is not a part of the job? Where are we, in the 1900s? – Jonast92 Mar 06 '17 at 16:33
  • @Cruncher "You are allowed to do anything, but not everything is good for you." If you want to disrespect your work and employer... – BЈовић Mar 06 '17 at 17:03
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    @armatita This isn't a helpful answer, but they clearly aren't suggesting the OP say it's inappropriate if he "simply dislikes it". – Z. Cochrane Mar 06 '17 at 17:09
  • @zabeus I was merely trying to argue how unreasonable it is to ask someone to change their choice of clothing due to a personal perspective. The OP expressed a physiological response to an event and asked if it should have the initiative of apologizing. He/She is looking for advice which is laudable. Suggesting the other person involved that she dressed inappropriately is (even if inadvertently) putting the blame on the other side. The biggest problem with this answer is that it completely shifts the OP intentions to a very gender biased conclusion. – armatita Mar 06 '17 at 17:43
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    This seems like a salvageable answer--if (and only if) the outfit in question is actually in violation of an existing company dress code, then it is entirely appropriate to bring it to a manager's attention. – Kyle Strand Mar 06 '17 at 22:03
  • @KyleStrand I agree. If the outfit violates the dress code, that is an objective measure of inappropriate dress. It's definitely appropriate to tell a co-worker that their clothes aren't suitable, particularly when it's due to safety. Ex: flip-flops in a warehouse or construction area is unsafe. – user70848 Mar 06 '17 at 22:35
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    Holy moly this is bad advice. You open a can of worms by telling her to dress differently, there is no way this improves anything. It either makes the coworkers self confidence go down the drain, or she fights back, going to HR, or she could very well cause a scene right then and there and in either case someones day got worse and tomorrow doesn't look good either. Do not comment on her skirt, especially not if he suspect she noticed... If he had been a stone statue, never even glancing at her skirt, then maybe he could have taken the high road with more chance of making her day worse than his – Stian Mar 08 '17 at 07:25
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I am baffled by most of the answers on this question. Most of the answers and comments seem to be blaming the woman for what she chose to wear. Unless she is violating some company dress code, she did nothing but try to do her job and probably has no idea what was going on in your head. The problem is with a man who can't seem to control himself. If the workplace, you need to be able to control yourself and realize that a coworker is a coworker.

There has been an assertion that my answer above did not answer the question, so I will pull out the answer more directly. The question is

should I try to clear the air by apologizing to her for my possibly-unprofessional behavior, or simply ignore the incident and keep mum about it?

My answer is, I don't believe there is any reason to apologize because unless you were drooling or making some lewd comments, I seriously doubt she knows what you were thinking. The issue seems to be entirely in your head. Again, unless she is in violation of a dress code, I don't see how this has anything to do with her.

bluegreen
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    No one is blaming her for what she chose to wear; you and others are suggesting that he has no right to look upon her. (Although so far only you have resorted to accusing him of being "unable to control himself".) – Beta Mar 06 '17 at 15:58
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    As a female, I would think you bear some of the burden. If you are coming into a professional work place showing a lot of cleavage and thigh, you are definitely inviting more glances than one who dresses more conservatively. This is a fact. – Neo Mar 06 '17 at 16:02
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    This doesn't really answer the question and would be better as a comment. – David K Mar 06 '17 at 16:09
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    " I could not help noticing that her skirt for the day was quite short and tight." most certainly does blame her for what she chose to wear. – bluegreen Mar 06 '17 at 16:21
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    @bluegreen no. it doesn't. It's an observation. Where in the question did he state that he thought she was wrong for dressing like that? – Cruncher Mar 06 '17 at 16:23
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    @bluegreen I couldn't help but notice that your name is bluegreen.

    Did I just blame you for your name?

     – Cruncher Mar 06 '17 at 16:26