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A friend of mine is starting a new job in a few weeks. The contract is already signed.

The manager just send her an email in the morning asking her to do some work until next day.

She currently has a another job and the manager knows this. It looks like a lot of work - it will take at least several hours, maybe even a whole day.

She doesn't want to start on bad terms by rejecting the request. On the other hand she won't get paid for this and would need to work the whole night (or at the weekend if she asks for more time). How should one react in such a situation?

Update

She talked to her manager and he tried to downplay the whole situation. He said that he wasn't really expecting any results and just wanted to ask her nicely if she maybe had some time to analyze a document. But in the email he forgot the part about asking nicely and wrote something like "I know you don't work for us yet, but please do this" and attached several hundred pages without mentioning which parts were relevant. The task was still way to big and simply not the kind of task that will get you any meaningful results when rushed or without carefully reading everything he had send.

Another Update

In conclusion everyone saying that this was a red flag was absolutely right. Management at that company was really bad and quite a mess, which reflected in their employees general bad mood and morale. I didn't help that she was direct subordinate of two chief officers, which both tended to frequently give her large task with unreasonable deadlines. She left the company after some month.

kapex
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    Wow. He/she specifically said I need this tomorrow? If it was a small task based on some expertise that person had I would get it. You have to wonder if you won't get an email on Saturday to have it by Sunday after you are hired. – paparazzo Jun 18 '15 at 17:54
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    Better NOT to join the company and NOT work for your future manager. – samarasa Jun 18 '15 at 18:08
  • @Blam Yes, he said he needs it until tomorrow. He send a huge pile of documents that he wants reviewed - but it's so much work that I have the feeling that there either was some misunderstanding or that he is testing her in some way. – kapex Jun 18 '15 at 18:12
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    @kapep Bottom line to me is that if this is a test(which it sounds like it might be) he should have had her perform before hiring her. That raises a large red flag to me that this boss is incompetent, irrational and unprofessional. Secondly, there's no reason that her boss should be giving her a large amount of work before she's hired. None at all. I agree that she should politely, firmly say "No." and she may want to continue job hunting even though she's technically hired. – zfrisch Jun 18 '15 at 18:18
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    Granting the future boss's request at this time would not be starting off well. What it would mean is that your friend will be treated like this the whole time. The manager has crossed a boundary that should not have been crossed. If your friend allows it to go unchecked, that boundary will be erased, and your friend will be subject to continual encroachment. – Kent A. Jun 18 '15 at 19:31
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    Depending on the country, this may well not be legal, either. – Joe Jun 18 '15 at 20:22
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    It's illegal in the US. – Panzercrisis Jun 18 '15 at 21:09
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    Your friend could write to the new boss, thanking him for letting her know in advance what she'll be doing on her first day on the job. – Dawood ibn Kareem Jun 19 '15 at 07:18
  • @kapep I would be curious to hear how the manager responds if/when your friend says they cannot do the work. – David K Jun 19 '15 at 12:46
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    It is Illegal in Brazil too. Not that you can work for free if you want, but if you are coerced into, you can file a lawsuit in a labor court, and is almost guaranteed to win. – Mindwin Remember Monica Jun 19 '15 at 13:19
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    The manager wants her to work before her start date on short term *and* it's *unpaid*? Wow. Just... wow. – Chris Cirefice Jun 19 '15 at 15:50
  • "That he wants reviewed" - I have heard from friends where they need to study and familiarize themselves with a company's product in their own time so they at least have some basic background to start with. It's not required, but it helps them with their job. Is that what is happening here? Or is it actual work like what your friend will be doing once they are working on the clock? – DoubleDouble Jun 19 '15 at 16:04
  • What an effed up manager. – JonH Jun 19 '15 at 19:47
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    Sounds very off. The best solution is probably to explain in a nice way that she wouldn't feel right doing work for X company while she is still working for Y company. Any professional manager should understand that and be fine with it. – Omegacron Jun 19 '15 at 20:52
  • @DavidWallace: That's brilliant! – user541686 Jun 20 '15 at 01:49
  • @DoubleDouble that would be a very silly policy. It's up to the company to train people in their internal stuff, otherwise they would have no incentive in not making it too much needlessly complicated (as it usually turns out to be anyway). – o0'. Jun 20 '15 at 08:29
  • @Lohoris In the cases where I've seen it, the products to familiarize themselves with were for sales positions and in one case a server position, where it was advised that they know, and maybe memorize, certain (uncomplicated) things. – DoubleDouble Jun 22 '15 at 15:03
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    @DavidK She talked to her manager and he tried to downplay the whole situation. He said that he wasn't really expecting any results and just wanted to ask her nicely if she maybe had some time analyze a document. But in the email he forgot the part about asking nicely and wrote something like "I know you don't work for us yet, but please do this" and attached several hundred pages without mentioning which parts were relevant. The task was still way to big and simply not the kind of task that will get you any meaningful results when rushed or without carefully reading everything he had send. – kapex Jun 22 '15 at 18:55
  • As it isn't mentioned, it's unclear weather she will be paid for this work or not. If it's something she will be paid for, then I see it as a reasonable request that she is free to accept or decline. – Kevin Fegan Jun 23 '15 at 03:53
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    Offtopic but so very relevant here: my SO is a (fully licensed) teacher, who was applying for a teaching job at an upper class school (€16000 per year per kid, which is unheard of here. Easily top 1%). They asked her to substitute for an employee before her job interview. Never met her, no credentials checked, and she actually took the children out of school for an otherwise unsupervised trip for one of those days. She had only sent an email with her resume. Needless to say, the school was a giant shitshow (though it was a considerably larger shitshow that you'd even expect now) – Flater Jul 24 '17 at 15:47
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    Would +1 just for circling back and giving an update. It's a good question, regardless, but thanks for that. – PoloHoleSet Jul 27 '17 at 15:45
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    Just had the same experience. They asked me to work on something before I had even signed the contract. Visited the company as soon as I could and discovered that they had lied about the job scope as well, even though they knew that I was about to give up a promotion AND take a pay cut to join them. I realize now that ethical management is paramount. – Twilight Sparkle May 26 '18 at 05:36

4 Answers4

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It is troubling that a manager would ask a future employee to work before their start date. While I understand that a good start with the new employer is desired, it seems that a polite, but firm "No" is in order. An email reply something like the following is appropriate:

Dear [future boss]:

While it is flattering that you think enough of me to trust me with this work before my start date, I cannot work on this task at this time. I understand that you need the task done tomorrow, but I am still working for [current employer]. As such, I am sure you understand that my current obligation is with them. I will be happy to provide the same level of effort and dedication when I come to work for you.

Sincerely,

[your friend's name]

As I said above, it's troubling that the new boss would ask for such a thing. Although unreasonable, I would fear reprecussions from something such as this, since the boss has already shown him/herself to be unreasonable. Perhaps a cc to the future boss' boss would be good here, if that person's email address is known. Unfortunately, your friend may want to resume her job search and/or inquire about staying on with her current employer.

GreenMatt
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    Perfect answer - a boss that doesn't understand that unpaid work on short deadlines is unreasonable and shouldn't even be asked does not sound promising for future satisfaction. – bethlakshmi Jun 18 '15 at 18:22
  • I like the answer but I think it needs to be more aggressive. That is just so unreasonable that I would want to get some measure of how I would be treated once I start. I would question if taking the job is the best path. – paparazzo Jun 18 '15 at 18:26
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    @Blam I agree the request is completely insane, but I'm not sure what would be the point of being more aggressive, i.e. why it would be more effective to which goal. – o0'. Jun 18 '15 at 18:57
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    @Lohoris As I stated I would want to get some measure of how I would be treated once I start. If he is going to do this now once I come to work is he going to send me an email on Saturday saying I need X done by Sunday. Not more aggressive in the sense of tell him how unreasonable it is. But more of is the nature of - is this the common work flow? – paparazzo Jun 18 '15 at 19:05
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    I really like the redirection, "I will be happy to provide the same level of effort and dedication when I come to work for you." which essentially means that if the new employer pushes, they are giving reasons not to put in full effort for them. And the suggestion, "your friend may want to resume her job search" is absolutely spot on. This is not a good employer... – Adam Davis Jun 18 '15 at 19:10
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    Great answer! But I wouldn't CC "the future boss' boss", as that would likely be viewed as "calling out" her soon-to-be boss. There are definitely appropriate times to do so, but I don't believe it's warranted on a first offense. – Lindsey D Jun 18 '15 at 19:18
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    I totally agree with this answer. Even if the new boss is unaware of the fact that the new employee is still working for another company, the request still sounds very unacceptable. – Radu Murzea Jun 19 '15 at 07:50
  • Good answer. Set boundaries NOW, because they'll be that much harder to set later. – Omegacron Jun 19 '15 at 20:57
  • This is a major red flag for a new job. I had a manager ask for something like this before I was hired: that job was a disaster and lacked any semblance of work/life boundaries. Your friend should shore up now and get ready to fight the oncoming waves over the course of her employment. – Naftuli Kay Jun 19 '15 at 21:41
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    Depending on the nature of the work - if it's at all creative or involves any sort of proprietary information - the friend could also point out employment agreements that specify the current employer owns all rights to their work product until their current job ends. – Phil Miller Jun 20 '15 at 19:00
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In case your friend has already given his or her notice, but is leaving on good terms, it might be worth mentioning this to the previous / current boss. In the worst case, if the new boss makes more unreasonable demands (and asking you to do work for them when they should fully know that you are still in full-time employment by another company), it might not be a bad idea having a fallback position.

And the demand is unreasonable unless they tell you to check with your current employee if you are allowed to do this, if they offer to pay you, and if they give a good reason why you and nobody else should do this work.

gnasher729
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    I agree with talking to your current manager about this. If you decide to return to your current job, it lets them know that you have a very good reason for coming back, which will make the whole process a lot easier. See http://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/6393/what-do-i-say-when-resigning-after-just-a-month and http://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/47621/going-back-to-previous-employer/ – Kevin Jun 19 '15 at 17:12
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It depends….

  • If the work is to review the job specs of people that are about to be hired to will report to her once she start her job, then she should do it.
  • If the work is to review a spec for a system that the team she is joining will be creating, maybe it is worth doing so as to have input.
  • If it is normal day to day work, then just say no.
Ian
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I suggest that she answer back and say she had other plans for the weekend and that she can't cancel them on such short notice and aside from that, she is tying up all sorts of loose ends at her current job. I don't really care if her plans for that weekend were to simply sleep the whole weekend, they are still plans.

I assume that she has yet to give official notice. If so, she can wait and see how the manager reacts. If the manager reacts in an unpleasant manner, she can scrub her two-week notice.

If she has given her notice already and the manager reacts in an unpleasant manner, she can make a request to rescind her two-week notice.

I assume that the contract becomes effective only on her first day of the job, at the job site.

Vietnhi Phuvan
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    Or maybe the new boss is probing for how much he can suck out of the new employee. Since his work ethics seem low, it is indeed better to ditch this new job if the option to remain where she is exists. God knows what will be asked when she changes jobs. – Mindwin Remember Monica Jun 19 '15 at 13:22
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    @Mindwin I agree that it is a very bad signal. If I were the manager and I was asking her to start work this early, you can bet your bottom dollar that I would have offered to pay her - Fair pay for fair work. But unless I was in a dire emergency, putting her in a situation where she is working for two employers simultaneously smells bad because it is interfering with her smooth transition out of her current job. – Vietnhi Phuvan Jun 19 '15 at 13:50
  • Actually, by not paying her, or otherwise having any contract under which , she probably keeps the rights over that piece of work (I recommend keeping -along all interchanged emails- a proof that it was done before the start date, such as a digital timestamp). – Ángel Jun 20 '15 at 21:42