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I graduated in 2018 with 1st class degree in computer science and since I only had 2 jobs:

  • Job 1: software engineer python/web dev 24k 1.6 years got sacked because of Covid.
  • Job 2 Php developer 3.4 years 31k. Small company but last year we have been acquired by bigger company and they promised everyone salary match to the market value but that never happened.

Now the salary review was done in December, and they started to introduce devops, project planning and basically giving people more tasks and projects to do. I openly said to my manager that I’m really unhappy and I’m being underpaid and he basically told me to go look for another job....

I looked online and spoke to recruiters and I should be on 40-50k. I think I’m comfortable but I’m also worried that because I been coding in pure vanilla I don’t have the framework experience and latest technology to make the move forward and be in mid role.

I’m still a junior, and they said they move me up but won’t get a pay rise. How could I approach this situation so I can get a salary that's closer to the market value?

DarkCygnus
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John
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How could I approach this situation so I can get a salary that's closer to the market value?

By finding a job that is willing to pay the salary that you want. This will NOT happen at your current employer.

I looked online and spoke to recruiters and I should be on 40-50k.

Your market value is the number on your pay check OR a number on a signed offer letter. Everything else is just speculation based on incomplete data.

he basically told me to go look for another job....

That's your answer. Your boss is not willing to give you more money and they are perfectly fine with you walking away. Your career at this place is not going anywhere.

Hilmar
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This is not an answer to the question per se - however, if this is the standard of your written communication - no wonder you aren't getting a Pay rise.

But, because I'm not an AH - if you want a Pay rise you need to make an Argument as to why you should and appeal to the Companies best interests

Now, to be fair - by researching average pay for your area based on experience, you've done the first step - which is good: 'This is what the Market is paying someone with my Skills and Experience'

However, you need to follow that up with 'And here are some Job Adverts where I meet/exceed the criteria and they are offering within this pay band'

You also need to talk about the VALUE that you bring to the company - What Projects have you worked on? What success have you contributed to? How has the work that you have done generated more revenue, decreased costs, lessened technical debt, increased productivity?

Then you need to talk about the COST to replace you. This ties in with the Research done above - if they are hiring a new hire, on average they will be paying 15% more on the current Salary, there is the cost of hiring depending on the type of role - but in NZ, for IT roles, the Average figure I hear bandied about is a total cost of $10K (Man hours interviewing, Cost of a Recruiter etc.)

Not only that, but the loss of institutional knowledge etc. is a big factor - it takes, on average 3-6 months for a new hire to become profitable for a company.

Then, once you've gathered all that information - you need to present:

Dear Manager,

I have XYZ Skills, I have done ABC projects that have helped generate the company $XXXXX in profit, I've also worked on DEF project that has reduced re-work and lead to an overall increase in efficiency.

The Market rate for someone with my skills and experience is $XXXXXX, and here are 2-3 job adverts in the local area where I meet/exceed the requirements that are being offered in this Salary bracket.

Therefore, I believe a reasonable Salary should be set to $XXXXXX

The cost to replace someone with my skills/experience would be $XXXXXX, which is greater than the above requested Pay Rise. Not to mention the Time and effort spent with recruiters and interviewing, which on average costs a company (insert regional figure for cost of hiring here).

A New hire that would take time to get up-to-speed which would introduce risk for company due to reasons (Appeal to their self-interest here - what they have going on)

Therefore, it is in everyone's best interest that you seriously consider my request for a Pay rise.

DarkCygnus
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TheDemonLord
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  • Somehow I feel such email/phrasing is kinda of an overkill, but regardless, I think it's thorough :) and hard to deny. An observation I can make is regarding the possible outcomes of this: either they consider/give the raise or debunk it... if it's debunked the only way out for OP is to find a new job, so maybe I'll add that OP should start considering applying to offers they find appealing to get an offer that pays what they want, just to be safer and have somewhere to "jump" if the raise is denied. – DarkCygnus Jan 10 '24 at 22:32
  • And after reading again and editing the post, I fear OP's chance sof getting the raise are low :/ – DarkCygnus Jan 10 '24 at 22:40
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    @DarkCygnus - It is a touch Overkill - If the business is being stubborn about a raise though you want to present your best possible argument: I do this for you, This is worth that and if I leave, it will cost you more. And you are correct - if you do all that and they still say no - that's when you dust off the ol' CV and start applying. – TheDemonLord Jan 10 '24 at 22:46
  • VERY nice - the next layoff - which may happen - will remember that letter. Better NOT write a lette, look for a solid new job and then jump. This letter poisons the well in case things turn sour (which the economy is doing now) AND is ignorant to the mentioned fact that the manager said "do not like the pay, leave", so unlikely to achieve anything. – TomTom Jan 10 '24 at 23:08
  • @TheDemonLord... I would dust off the old CV and start applying for different jobs for 1 very simple reason. If your employer is a good employer they will pay you at/ or above market rate. If you are a good employee who can get a job elsewhere. Source? Its what my employer does... Because hiring people is expensive, time consuming, and did I mention expensive?... – Questor Jan 11 '24 at 15:51
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Whatever you do - THINK TWICE ABOUT WALKING AWAY. Large parts of the world are hitting a recession that may well be a 1929 level AND at the same time, AI is starting to also eat developer jobs soon. What recruiters tell you is nice - but the question is whether you will ever hit a job like that. A lot of companies said in recent polls they plan to downsize in 2024, or at least put in a hiring freeze.

What recruiters tell you is marketing blabla until you have an offer letter on the table.

And I think that 2024 is when companies tart using AI - also in IT - to make developers more efficient at large (more than they have already) - which in many companies opens the door to to downsizing when financial pressure hits (as in: recession). Get the same work done - with half the people, also in IT. Some of the stuff coming is insane - I have seen websites being programmed from rough drawings (a photo of a form on a napkin) - and that is the low hanging fruit half a year ago.

Be careful here - good if you manage a better job, but whatever you have, be prepared for offers to disappear fast.

Your manager agrees on that, btw - he told you to get another job. That is as straight as it gets, in his eyes you have no bargaining power. Guess why ;)

TomTom
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    Very speculative, and I fail to see how this is helpful to the OP. Does that mean staying in an underpaid position is good, because all the jobs will be taken by AI? Also, have you actually used AI? I have, and I've seen others do it. It's far away from taking all developer jobs. At best, it can become a useful tool for development in the near future. – bytepusher Jan 10 '24 at 20:20
  • You know, sometimes THERE IS NO HELP. And I am not telling him to stay there - I tell him to be careful because the situation RIGHT NOW (and likely into the future) is not good. And like most AI incompetent people you do not realize - AI does not have to REPLACE developers to get them fired. Make developers 3x as productive and in a recession most companies will gladly fire half their developers. And yes, I use AI - and we replace about - hm - 40 people with AI. Duolingo just fired 10% of their contractors BECAUSE OF AI. It is starting. I use it myself for development and ir ROUGHLY... – TomTom Jan 10 '24 at 23:03
  • ...saves me on average 50% time, I would say. That is a second developer not needed. But seriously, in the current situation - a new job better is solid (and the company). Things are turning ugly now - and likely turn WAY more ugly on a monthly basis. There is no speculation there - companies are downsizing. – TomTom Jan 10 '24 at 23:03
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    I have, incidentally, been listening to ex-colleagues being worried about the market for about a year. All of them found a job within very reasonable time frames once they started looking. YMMV, but I'm not seeing AI replace everyone just yet, if ever – bytepusher Jan 11 '24 at 11:29
  • Well, it is not REPLACE. As I said and it gets ignored - AI tools make people more productive. Work in a department is limited. If I can get the same work done with less people - I fire. Also, nie anecdote "for about a year" - you mean BEFORE the crap hit the fan economy wise? Nice. Oh, why get people hired IF THERE IS NO RECESSION? I actually SEE people being replaced with AI. I talk to managers downsizing their departments. Hm, funny. Mostly hits juniors so far. – TomTom Jan 11 '24 at 13:19
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    "about a year" - starting now, going backwards, yes. The general "will developers be replaced" discussion is a larger one, but aside from caps and "funny", you're just trading anecdotes with me here, and I don't see why mine are less valid. MAYBE I SHOULD USE CAPS MORE? – bytepusher Jan 11 '24 at 14:13
  • You can do whatever you want - does not make your anectotes more than singular items with no data behind, compared to i.e. Google firing 12000 people because of automation and you thinking (and I am sorry, this makes no sense for anyone with common sense) that LOW END WEB DEVELOPERS magically are safe from AI. Oh, look, it does science (which it does - read some news - but it is too stupid to make a website. Cough. – TomTom Jan 11 '24 at 14:18
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    "AI is starting to also eat developer jobs" - We are at least a decade away from AI being able to do what most developers do. Every single task I have attempted to utilize AI for, was wasted effort, and ended up doing it in a fraction of the time it took me to determine that the AI response was complete trash. Any tool that doubles the amount of time to complete a task is a tool I end up NOT using. – Donald Jan 11 '24 at 23:09
  • That is stupid, sorry. First, a decade - no. Second, AI does not need to make developers jobs to get them fired. If AI makes developers more efficient, this can reslt in some getting fired. "Every single task I have attempted to utilize AI for, was wasted effort, " - that shows more that YOU are the problem. There are plenty of examples of people getting whole functions written by AI - your AI FU is just weak as heck. Bad tools, bad AI, I would assume. Incompetence on top. – TomTom Jan 12 '24 at 08:37
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    The science it has done - read some news - contained made up references, just like when it was used in a court case. The advantages it provides are limited, and so far, simply aren't better than a decent web search. You're calling me out on providing anecdotes, yet you're doing the same. And, above all, again, this is simply not helpful to the OP's question. You can have the last word, I'm going to stop feeding you. – bytepusher Jan 13 '24 at 22:38