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I love my job but I've been offered a job at a different company with slightly more salary. As I was in two minds to take the offer, I discussed with my current company if there is anything that can be done to help me consider, i.e. the salary and the role.

They said they can work with me to define the role and match the salary but want to see the offer letter as they trust me but want to see in writing what's been offered. As the offer letter is private and confidential, I said I can't share the details. I've been asked to remove all those details and share it anyways.

Should I forward the letter by removing the personal/confidential details?

They also said they may want to know the details of the company when close to an arrangement. I'm not sure I want to share the details, but can they cross check the offer with the other companies?

Greenonline
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user140009
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    I'd be responding with "I'd rather just go to the other company if you're going to make this a big effort" – TheEvilMetal May 26 '23 at 06:34
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    "I said I can't share the details I've been asked to remove all that and share." -- hehe... it crossed my mind that you could well send them the letter with everything else scratched... just the salary... lol (this is just an hyperbolic observation, not something that I am suggesting)... not the most bulletproof request from your current company, as somebody that is dishonest could make up a letter, scratch and "remove everything else" and basically put the salary they want to have... – DarkCygnus May 26 '23 at 07:12
  • Is the offer letter explicitly confidential, or is it possible for a trusted 3rd party to verify the authenticity if your main concern is revealing the details of the company making the offer? Also as one answer stresses though, in general it is usually not in your best interest to remain at a higher salary once your company knows you've actively been looking for other employment. – Chuu May 26 '23 at 14:50
  • Have there been previous instances of personel being hired away from your company you know of? – Fildor May 26 '23 at 15:04
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    Were you head hunted or did you apply and go for an interview? If it is the latter then you've already half made up your mind to go. No point blackmailing the current company for more money - just go. If you were head hunted, that's a different story. – cup May 26 '23 at 16:54
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    The link provided in this answer to the recent (and vaguely related) question, Using an offer from another firm in my yearly review, provides some interesting statistics about counter offers from your current employer and their ineffectiveness - which is certainly worth a read. – Greenonline May 26 '23 at 17:20
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    Does this answer your question? Sharing competing offer letter marked as "confidential" – AffableAmbler May 28 '23 at 04:18
  • @AffableAmbler "Confidential does not have any legal weight" but it /does/ have ethical weight. One way of doing it might be "I'm prepared to show this in confidence to the company's lawyer". – Mark Morgan Lloyd May 29 '23 at 08:24

11 Answers11

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You were right to point out your offer is confidential. If you remove all the text from that offer that can identify the other company then you end up with a text that you might just as well have invented yourself, there's no way your current company can verify that you have a genuine offer. It's a silly thing to ask for if you consider it from this perspective, if you already lied about getting an offer what would be stopping you from lying about it some more with a fake text...

Secondly, if you end up accepting the new offer, your new company might get informed that you showed the confidential offer to your old boss, it might be a bad light in which to start your new job.

So you should tell your current company they have to trust you because the offer is confidential and there is no way to prove you got the offer, other then producing a meaningless text. Why would you continue at a company that doesn't trust you?!

wi2ard
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    It may have been a mistake already, letting them know of the offer. In my experience it is better to negotiate knowing what you can have with one signature but not disclosing that you do. Then you can still accept a "close enough" improvement without coming across as "blackmailing" or threatening. – Fildor May 26 '23 at 15:11
  • The new company might discover that you only got their offer to leverage your old employer... – le3th4x0rbot May 28 '23 at 00:16
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    It's not a silly thing at all. It's a very common technique used in many areas. This is why the government asks asylum seekers if they're members of terrorist organizations. The point is to require you to be willing to do some unambiguously wrong and separately punishable if you want to try to get away with something more borderline and perhaps not punishable. Unprovably making up a vague offer is one thing, presenting a falsified document to obtain a financial benefit is the required escalation just like being a member of a group and lying about being a member of a group. – David Schwartz May 28 '23 at 22:28
  • @Fildor: The purpose of mentioning a competing offer is not to provide an ultimatum but rather to establish a minimum offer. If the other company is offering me +20%, it can be a very simple way to indicate to the current employer that you're not interested in any offer under +20%. – Flater May 29 '23 at 05:33
  • @DavidSchwartz: my point was that if the offer is anonimized and there's no way to identify who sent it (which is what the manager said was acceptable) then there is no way to tell if it's fake or genuine. IMO, the mutual trust with the current employer is gone and even if OP accepts the counter offer, they are just postponing leaving – wi2ard May 29 '23 at 10:31
  • @Flater "The purpose of mentioning a competing offer is not to provide an ultimatum but rather to establish a minimum offer." - I am aware of that. No negotiation advisor will tell you that's how it will be perceived, though. If you have an offer, you know your worth. Take it or leave it but presenting it will just "put you an a list". – Fildor May 30 '23 at 05:45
  • @GabiM The employer doesn't need to be able to tell if it's fake or genuine. They just need to be willing to trust the OP not to commit a crime, which they probably are. This is the same reason we frequently advise people to get things in writing because it forces the other side to either abandon something or fully commit to it. It's not a silly thing at all -- it's very common and completely rational. – David Schwartz May 30 '23 at 05:49
  • @DavidSchwartz: Unless the OP adds some uninvolved party to a faked document, what crime is being committed? I'm pretty sure that faking a job offer with no discernible identification of any allegedly involved party (other than the author) is unethical but not a crime. – Flater May 30 '23 at 05:51
  • @Flater Producing a fake document to obtain a financial benefit from another is counterfeiting and fraud. Merely saying you have an offer that you don't have may not be. (In my jurisdiction, it's possession of a forged document with intent to defraud that's a crime.) – David Schwartz May 30 '23 at 05:54
  • @DavidSchwartz: A job offer does not produce financial benefit in the sense of fraud, which is forgery of a financial transaction (or any document pertaining to its authorization). Forging a signed employment contract constitutes fraud; but I'm not so convinced about a letter of intent, as such a letter isn't even legally binding if the author of a genuine letter later decides to reconsider their intent. This is a negotiation and is no different from e.g. police lying during an interrogation. As long as the end result (confession / agreed salary) is voluntary, it's legal (even if immoral). – Flater May 31 '23 at 00:19
  • @Flater That's just not true. For example, creating a fake document to show that something for sale is worth much less than it really is and then getting the seller to agree to a lower price is probably the classic example of a violation of these kinds of "counterfeit with intent to defraud" statutes. The purpose of the counterfeit document is usually to convince the other party to agree to terms more favorable to the counterfeiter. – David Schwartz May 31 '23 at 00:34
  • @DavidSchwartz: The key part of the fraud in your example is the faked identification of the authoritative source, which in this case is irrelevant as OP would be supplying a letter with all identifying information made unavailable, keeping only the details on the alleged offer itself. What OP would be handing over to the company is the equivalent of Ron Swanson's permit. If Ron had tried to fake any government seals or someone's identity on that permit, that would play out significantly differently. – Flater May 31 '23 at 00:36
  • @Flater The specific identifying information would be missing. But he's verbally represented that the identity is a credible source. He is faking an authoritative source, he's just not identifying which authoritative source that is. If you think a fake appraisal case would come out different if the appraisers name was covered in the produced document, you're kidding yourself. – David Schwartz May 31 '23 at 04:31
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    @DavidSchwartz: "Believe me, this is real" is a lie, it is not fraud. If it were fraud, then every known lie would be an act of fraud. While you may personally define "fraud" this broadly (and I would mostly agree for informal usage, such as calling OP a fraud for doing this), the law most certainly does not see it that broadly. Maybe this is something for Law.SE to hash out whether it maintains enough of the spirit of fraud that the interpretation of the legislature can be made to include this, but I don't see it explicitly included in the current phrasing of the statute. – Flater May 31 '23 at 04:35
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    @Flater Preparing a fake commercial document and presenting it as a real one to obtain a better price in a negotiation is a classic example of possessing a counterfeit document with intent to defraud. – David Schwartz May 31 '23 at 22:28
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Should I forward the letter by removing the personal/confidential details?

They also said they may want to know the details of the company when close to an arrangement.

By doing this in stages, they're trying to manipulate you and delay the process.

Don't give in. Be willing to walk away.

If you give them the details, they will burn you to the other company (see this real life example) and the other company will rightly put you on their "never-hire" list. Or they will try to delay the negotiation and the final paperwork until your alternative offer expires. And they may ultimately renege on their agreement with you since your leverage will have evaporated.

If you really want to play this right, you need to say something like:

"This letter is confidential and I just don't feel comfortable sharing it. You don't believe me, and that's fine. I don't need you to believe me."

Either they give what you want or they don't. You can't really control what they're going to choose. But the one thing you can do is behave as if you were impervious to their attempt to make you prove yourself to them. Because with a competitive offer from another company, even if they never see it, even if they don't believe it, it doesn't really matter. Deep down, you know that you're able to walk away.

Stephan Branczyk
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As noted in past answers, "I have a competing offer so raise my salary" is usually not good strategy. Many companies have specific procedures for merit-based pay (or at least scheduled pay adjustments) and evaluation of those as a management team, so your manager might not be able to do anything but promise to support your request at that time. And if you tell them you're looking elsewhere, their priority may be to find your replacement rather than to retain you.

Better approach: "According to what I've seen published, my salary is on the low end of the industry range for someone at my level. What can I do to help you convince upper management that I deserve a raise/promotion/whatever?" Request for a cooperative path, with at most an implication that someone might lure you away.

Purrrple
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keshlam
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    I'm not wholly convinced... Every time I've told a boss I'm leaving for more money, they've had a counteroffer on my desk within the working day. The "cooperative approach" usually leads to promises being made that are never fulfilled and the can being kicked down the line – ScottishTapWater May 26 '23 at 15:51
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    @ScottishTapWater: May be differences in country/company cultures. Glad that it has worked for you, but it's a "double or nothing" kind of bet that I wouldn't make unless I did, in fact, have an alternative waiting in the wings and had no particular attachment to my current job. Your mileage will vary; void where mandatory. – keshlam May 26 '23 at 16:08
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    Well that's the key isn't it... Don't make threats that you're not happy to carry through with. This trick only works if you're genuinely happy to up-sticks and take the offer and are only leaving because money – ScottishTapWater May 26 '23 at 16:30
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    @keshlam Your comment isn't applicable to the OP's situation because they do, in fact, have an alternative waiting in the wings. So why suggest they trade a higher salary right now for a potential raise in the future? – DKNguyen May 26 '23 at 16:46
  • @DKNguyen: "slightly more salary". That isn't sounding like they really want to take the new position, just that they want to know if they could get paid more in their current position – keshlam May 26 '23 at 20:23
  • @keshlam Well a slightly higher salary now is still a higher salary now versus a potential raise in the future. If OP chooses to go this cooperative path of yours, OP has to be willing to accept that nothing might change. – DKNguyen May 26 '23 at 20:51
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    There are costs either way.Point remains that unless they're already on their way out, saying "I've been offered" has risks. – keshlam May 26 '23 at 21:07
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They said they can work with me to define the role and match the salary

You have to decide what to do if nothing changes except the salary, will you stay with the new company.

You have already told them you have one foot out the door. They know you interviewed. They know that somebody was willing to make you an offer. They know you are ready to take that offer.

The are many questions on this site about promises that the company didn't keep related to things such as training, work location, promotions... So many that you shouldn't count on things that take time to happen.

If they match the salary only will you stay? If yes show them the letter. If the answer is no, then don't show them the letter. If that means they don't match the salary, then you have your answer.

This dilemma is one more reason why requesting a counteroffer is problematic. Sometimes you risk the new job for no gain. Or you decline a good offer while telling your current company you will be leaving soon.

mhoran_psprep
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    As for sharing the offer letter, if they are unwilling to negotiate a counter offer on the merits (your value to the company), I personally wouldn’t accept a counteroffer. Accepting a counteroffer is a mixed bag, it most certainly comes with caveats, like for instance not getting a bonus the same year as the raise. – Donald May 26 '23 at 12:05
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    If they learn where the offer is for and they’re spiteful, they can call that company and lie, nuking that offer, then fire OP, and OP is out of a job without a ready alternative. Not saying it will happen, but is that really a risk to take? If they truly won’t give a raise without seeing confidential info, they aren’t worth trusting IMHO, and may be trying to bait OP into exactly the situation I described. So no, don’t show them the offer letter, ever. – bob May 27 '23 at 17:29
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it's perfectly understandable why they want confirmation that you indeed have that offer. After all, they're being asked to match it or better, so you'd best be able to show them that you indeed have it.

It would indeed be a smart move to remove things like contact information and names of people in the letter, but if you're serious about wanting them to make you a counter offer you should work with them, not against them.

jwenting
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  • Thank you, I am serious about working with them just don't feel comfortable sharing a confidential offer letter. If I send the letter removing all the information that could be traced, but if they ask me to tell them the company before they can offer to match salary and put a plan to develop my role, can they do that, if so would I be ok to say no as it's confidential and private conversation with me. – user140009 May 26 '23 at 08:34
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    This is totally bizarre. A confidential letter is ......... wait for it ......... confidential. You can't show it around (after " ' redacting ' " parts of it). – Fattie May 27 '23 at 03:51
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    @Fattie no reason to believe such letters are "confidential". Even if someone stamps it as such, unless you're under an NDA with the sender it's not legally binding. And oh, anything I write is confidential and you're not allowed to repeat it. – jwenting May 27 '23 at 04:33
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Think of it from their point of view. Alternatively, think of it if you were the boss and every employee demanded a raise because "I have an offer elsewhere".

Sure thing, bub.

You expect them to just take your word for it and give you a raise?

It would create a company culture where the people who sit quietly and do their job feel like fools because word would get around that the way to get raises and to get ahead is to play chicken with the management.

Jay
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  • If the company culture was one where employees were paid enough not to feel compelled to search elsewhere, brinkmanship with offers (real or fictional) would not be an issue.

    "I have an offer elsewhere" -> "Great! Happy for you. Been a pleasure working with you, best wishes for your future career"

     – LastStar007 May 28 '23 at 22:53
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As a supplementary answer to Fattie's answer, regarding "future unemployability" (and in part addressing this comment):

Where would this be recorded and shared with people who would employ you?

in case there is any doubt as to whether news of your sharing a confidential letter either as a whole or in part (i.e. redacted) would get out... bored people in offices/workplaces talk... a lot!

First, around your immediate locale/site

So, just from standing around the water cooler, it is likely after a while you would be known for having shared a confidential letter from a prospective employee, and even the contents of that letter may become common knowledge:

Hey, did you hear that person X got offered 10 Escudos more per hour by company Y?

Second, beyond your workplace

Then, take into account, that news can casually spread further than the immediate locale/site because friends/colleagues/acquaintances across sites talk - for example, in the pub at lunch, when entertaining cross-site (including multi-national) staff members, external third parties, and other visitors. People often see little harm in sharing details like these, with others who aren't immediately associated with the person concerned. Sharing details like these can be seen to help create an intimacy that build external working relationships, and may even help close a deal.

By now, your sharing of a confidential letter has become common casual knowledge, even though it still seems like harmless banter/gossip, and may not seem all that problematic.

Third, at job application time

The problem comes when you apply for a related job elsewhere and the immediate hiring team - not the HR team but the technical team members who are conducting the technical aspects of the interview (the people that you will end up working with and who (usually) have a major vote in your eventual hiring) - contact their friends from other sites and companies (that could be miles away or even in a different country) and ask

Hey, you worked with, or closely with, or with a team that included person X. What are they like?

To which the response could be one of these three:

  • Awful, avoid them like the plague
  • Amazing, hire them immediately
  • Ok, but let me tell you a story about them sharing a confidential letter...

You think this is unlikely? Trust me, this happens a lot.

Now, indeed, this may not make you unemployable, but, regardless of whether it does or does not, do you want to be known as the person in this story?

Greenonline
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It doesn't matter how much you make elsewhere. What matters is how much salary you want to work for the new company, and whether they want to pay that amount.

My salary at my old company is between me and them. Even if I told the new company, it wouldn't affect how much I want to get paid.

gnasher729
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    I think you misread the question. – WBT May 26 '23 at 13:54
  • I think @WBT is right... OP is currently working with a company (A), but received offer from another (B). Then company A asked OP to show the letter B offered them to match salary. It's not like OP is job-hunting or without a job at the moment. – DarkCygnus May 26 '23 at 19:12
  • No, Gnasher is right. – Fattie May 27 '23 at 03:51
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    @Fattie So your answer is wrong then? As it says the exact reverse, that the old company is crazy for thinking that the OP will show them the offer letter at the new company. Whereas Gnasher729 is saying that the new company doesn't need to know how much the old company is paying. Note: no one is claiming that the OP should show any salary to anyone. Not the current salary to the potential new company nor the potential new salary to the current company. That's not what people are saying is wrong, only the details. This answer is non-responsive to the question asked. – mdfst13 May 28 '23 at 18:49
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can they cross check the offer with the other companies?

Well they can ask...

But it would be highly unprofessional of the other company to give out this information, and very unlikely they would do it.

I suppose they could say what their standard starting salary for someone with X years of experience is, but should not confirm that that is what they offered you.

You don't say where you are, but I'd be very surprised if this wasn't the same in any culture.

komodosp
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Your pay at your current company is a negotiation between you and your company. What another company offers is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is how much value your current employer considers you to bring in to them, as measured by how much they compensate you for it. Your company has already shared their current assessment of that number: it's called your salary.

The only possible reason why your company would want to see your new offer letter is to know how much to counteroffer. In other words, they already know you're worth more than they're paying you, but they want to know the minimum they can counteroffer to make you consider staying. They already lowballed you once—that's what brought you to the market—and now they want to lowball you again. (Note to company leadership anywhere: this is not a winning strategy for retaining the talent you've invested in.)

Consider also that whatever grievances you had with your current employer won't go away if you decide to stay.

All this said, I made this mistake in the recent past and ended up in a company that was a bad fit. Especially when you say that you "love your job here" and that the new offer is "only slightly more salary": if you're living comfortably and you're working comfortably, that's no small thing. That's worth a lot of money. Embracing change and having a sense of adventure are important in life, but don't throw away something great in pursuit of a number.

LastStar007
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Should I forward the letter by removing the personal/confidential details?

Here's a two-letter answer.

"No".

You might as well be asking "Would my wife mind if I had intercourse with another woman?"

The idea of asking to see a letter - any letter - from any other company, is so far beyond the pale it's just completely absurd.

If you ever took part in such a bizarre situation, you'd be marked for life as unemployable, totally unprofessional.

The company you currently work for is "psycho", and you should walk away today.

Fattie
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    How exactly would you be " marked for life as unemployable" ? Where would this be recorded and shared with people who would employ you? – matt freake May 27 '23 at 06:19
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    @mattfreake - You would be surprised. See this supplementary answer – Greenonline May 27 '23 at 06:53
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    Can the information leak out? Yes. Does it always leak out enough to the majority of potential employers for the rest of your lifetime as "marked for life as unemployable" says? No – matt freake May 27 '23 at 07:46
  • @mattfreake The info may or may not leak out in every case. It depends. But, you don't want to take the risk. Once it leaks out, it can leak out to many companies, just like covid virus. By that time, OP's employability would be close to zero. Unless the OP wants to stay with the current company, I agree with this answer. – Nobody May 28 '23 at 09:36
  • @mattfreake your view is incredible. Everyone knows everything eventually. Should you steal a laptop from the office? Obviously no, as your reputation would be screwed forever. "Ah, but what if nobody finds out." Focussing on the main point, *The company you currently work for is "psycho", and you should walk away today.*. – Fattie May 28 '23 at 12:39
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    @Fattie Is your wife single? – breversa May 29 '23 at 11:17