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I work in engineering, designing high voltage systems (up to 10kV) with lethal energy behind the voltage. We also work on exposed mains. The company has a spot audit soon, so they have thrusted 20 pages of safety documents in front of myself and my colleagues. They are also doing a 'department clean-up' to make it appear like a safe working environment.

I've never seen these documents before in my several years there, and I've never signed anything other than my initial contract and 6-month probation forms, nothing else. Nor have I had any training on anything, and have just kind of 'worked it out' over the years. I have been shocked several times, and so have my peers.

I have a couple of questions about these forms. They state things such as 'if working on HV systems, the employee shall be qualified or trained' for example - I asked a senior who said because I have a degree I am therefore qualified to work on for example live systems which does not make sense to me? I never touched or worked on mains live or HV electrical systems at University, it was mostly academic study.

Secondly, these forms have weird requirements. For example, using a soldering iron, it says we must wear gloves, eye protection, and protective footwear. In a case like this, if an accident was to occur and I wasn't wearing the correct footwear, could the company say they are not liable because I signed a form and didn't follow their protocol? There are lots of forms that have odd things like this, like requiring full PPE when using screwdrivers. Is it reasonable for the company to make us sign forms regarding PPE?

BSMP
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    Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. – Kilisi Aug 06 '22 at 03:27
  • Some critical info from the comments worth saving: OP: "UK based company." "... many dangerous jobs I've done thinking to myself this is unbelievably dangerous, I shouldn't be doing this without training. But [no] electrical peers have said anything [but one could be a whistleblower!-WHO] [...] if I refuse/cause a problem I will probably be fired [?]" Especially if safety isn't improving a lot: report a safety issue as a whistleblower. Use an alias or remain anonymous if at all possible; don't trust the gov't. The FDA outed Pfizer whistleblower Brook Jackson and she was fired within HOURS. – user1521620 Aug 07 '22 at 23:27
  • Do you have a person officially responsible for safety in the company? Do you have a union rep? – RedSonja Aug 10 '22 at 11:34

4 Answers4

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I agree with other posters.

Your company appears to be desperately trying to cover up some massively unsafe working practices. They are the important things. Your signing papers is secondary.

Having a university degree absolutely does not qualify you to work with high voltage systems. Your "senior" is a dangerous idiot for saying it does, and the company is almost certainly breaking the law by doing so. When I worked in the UK nuclear industry a trained and qualified electrician was required to change a plug. Scientists were not allowed to do it, despite their nuclear physics PhD. (Some would say especially those who had a nuclear physics PhD.)

What the company is trying to do is to make you read and sign a big set of safety instructions, seemingly without caring if you understand them. If an accident subsequently happens and you are not following what is said in the documents, they will say "the employee was informed of the relevant safety standards and chose to disregard them and the accident is therefore their fault.". This is unfortunately a valid defense and may not only absolve the company from prosecution and lawsuits, but may deny you compensation in the event of accidents.

I have some recommendations:

  1. If the documents have a "signed date" in the past or in any way convey the impression that they are retroactive, absolutely 100% do not sign them. Keep them as possible evidence.
  2. If you are in a professional engineering association such as the Institution of Electrical Engineers talk to them immediately. If you are in another union or professional association, talk to them.
  3. Talk to your colleagues and see if they feel the same way.
  4. Read the documents very carefully and write down all the precautions the documents require where your company has not been following them, and anything else they have not been following.
  5. Go to your managers and say that you don't understand the implications of the documents, and you want some training to explain exactly what they mean. Refuse to sign until you have had that training. You want the training conducted by qualified individuals. I would strongly suggest you ask for someone outside your company.
  6. Definitely do not sign the documents until you are sure you understand them fully.
  7. If you found things where your company has not been following the safety requirements, tell the company about them. Refuse any future tasks where the rules (as you understand them from the documents) are not followed. Do this even if you don't sign the documents. UK law prevents you from being penalized for refusing to work in an unsafe environment.
  8. Google the UK safety requirements for working on high voltage systems. I don't know the details, but I guarantee your degree does not make you qualified. Tell your "senior" this.
  9. Talk to the Health and Safety Executive or an outside organisation that handles workplace safety. However be aware that once you tell them of an unsafe working practice they may be obliged to take action, which may mean serious consequences for your company.

I should say that the other precautions you list to make sense. Requiring protection for a soldering iron is absolutely the right thing.

Absolutely if you sign these documents (or even if you don't) then refuse to do any work where the standards laid down in them are not followed. If you do any such work, and an accident happens, it will be considered your fault, whatever management said to you.

DJClayworth
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    Also, make sure you keep a copy of all of these documents, plus any written questions/objections that you bring to management. A shady company might try to pass inspection by finding a contrived reason to fire all the employees that refused to sign the required paperwork. Your copies of these things would be "exhibit A" in a slam-dunk case for illegal termination. – bta Aug 05 '22 at 01:51
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    What about also starting to look for another job? – Todd Wilcox Aug 05 '22 at 03:08
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    "Your senior is a dangerous idiot for saying it does" - absolutely correct! It's appalling that a senior would think it appropriate to say something so blatantly dangerous and untrue. They are extremely ignorant, or trying to rush through the paperwork in a wildly unsafe manner, or both. – jla Aug 05 '22 at 03:14
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    "If you are in a union or professional association, talk to them." Exactly. Regardless of all the other benefits of being a union member, worker safety is one of the areas that unions really excels in. – hlovdal Aug 05 '22 at 08:16
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    wrt the company shifting liability for work place accidents: at least over here in Germany, they couldn't do it as easily as this. Over here, the employer is responsible not only to get their staff trained and tell them to follow safety rules, but they are actually responsible to make sure the rules are followed. However, the emplyoee is still covered by the mandatory work place accident insurance when the employer is at fault as long as the accident was not premediated by the employer (i.e., the employee is still covered in case of recklessness on the side of the employer) – cbeleites unhappy with SX Aug 05 '22 at 12:25
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    What a university degree qualifies for varies*. However, I'd tend to think it reasonable to argue that an EE with university degree is qualified to recognize the limits of their qualification, and to take the necessary steps to become qualified for whatever they are doing. Which may mean formal training, or informal as in teaming up with a colleague whom they judge qualified to pass on the required knowlege and skills. (I'd expect also that they are qualified to find out whether formal training/exam is legally required.) (This should be reflected in their salary, of course) – cbeleites unhappy with SX Aug 05 '22 at 13:07
  • And in any case, an employee who recognizes that something is unsafe does also have a certain responsibility to help changing that. Ignoring t working conditions is also negligence on the side of the employee - e.g. via the rules of the workplace accident insurance (though, again, at least German legislation takes the power difference between employee and employer into account) – cbeleites unhappy with SX Aug 05 '22 at 13:10
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  • E.g., an EE who did their thesis on high-voltage systems including experimental work may have acquired the relevant training, knowledge and experience (German: Fachkunde, don't know the English term, possibly technical qualification?). They'd be sachkundig (legally qualified?) only if that included formal training with a corresponding officially/legally approved exam. (Which may be the case, e.g. I'm chemist and during my studies passed such a Sachkunde exam wrt. chemical substances)
  • – cbeleites unhappy with SX Aug 05 '22 at 13:36
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    Definetly do not sign backdated or untrue documents before an audit. If the audit finds out about them, you'll be in just as huge legal trouble as the entire company. – Neinstein Aug 05 '22 at 13:55
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    Is there a reason why you're not recommending OP to get a lawyer? I mean, legal documents, legal issues... sounds like they could use a 1h consultation. – GuilleOjeda Aug 05 '22 at 14:14
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    In my opinion it is not necessary yet. In the UK escalating to a lawyer is a measure of last resort, unlike the US. If there is a professional association involved, or HSE, then it's not going to be necessary. And there are places to try like the CAB before getting a lawyer involved. – DJClayworth Aug 05 '22 at 14:37
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    This is unfortunately a valid defense Not in the US it isn't. In the US, mining and construction companies are routinely punished for safety failures arising from open worker defiance and evasion of operating rules. You're not supposed to allow people to work if you can't properly supervise them and enforce safety rules. I would be gobsmacked if the UK is less worker-friendly in this regard than the US. – tbrookside Aug 05 '22 at 23:22
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    Then it's a good thing I noticed that the questioner is in the UK when I wrote my answer. – DJClayworth Aug 06 '22 at 02:00
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    When you raise questions with management, do it over e-mail. – 200_success Aug 06 '22 at 05:18
  • @ToddWilcox I expected that to be Point 10 while reading the rest – Hobbamok Aug 06 '22 at 14:56
  • "Having a university degree absolutely does not qualify you to work with high voltage systems." +1 – Gregory Currie Aug 07 '22 at 03:31
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    Some would say especially those who had a nuclear physics PhD This is offensive to me as a PhD in physics, but I agree :) – WoJ Aug 07 '22 at 07:45
  • "This is unfortunately a valid defense" - actually it isn't. The employer must show that their own method was safe - including that they briefed and trained the employee in a manner that would mean they could apply the information contained in the document in practice. Having a stack of papers handed to you for signatures won't go anywhere for the employer in proving a safe system of work, if an accident actually occurs (although it might satisfy credulous auditors who are not investigating a specific accident). – Steve Aug 09 '22 at 14:54
  • A mate had a colleague at university who was banned forever from using certain machinery (that machinery was so bloody dangerous that my mate wasn't willing to even touch it) because the guy acted in an utterly stupid way. That effectively meant that he had no chance to get his PhD in that particular subject. So no, PhD in physics means you know what 10,000 Volt will do to your body, but it doesn't mean you are clever enough to avoid it. – gnasher729 Aug 10 '22 at 09:18