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We hired a talented engineer "Alice" some time back, and she has excelled at everything we throw at her. If she needs to use a new programming language or tool, she buys a book and learns it over the weekend. Within a few weeks, she'll pick up whatever certs goes with it (if one exists). She is also a very capable mentor/tutor, team lead, presenter; along with her engineering skills. Finding an "ace" engineer is hard enough in our field (new/emerging high-tech field), and having just some of those soft-skills at the same time is even rarer. She is also very ambitious (but does not appear to be vindictive or malicious), and was very blunt during interviews on her plans to make a lot of money during her career.

Sadly, we've run out of "interesting" work for Alice to do (the things advertised in the job description). For me and my team, this is actually a good thing, as she finished 8 months of work in 3 months. However, senior management decided that Alice would be temporarily moved to another team to get things "back in order" (I protested against this, and asked that Alice be given time to work on some interesting side projects or maybe Hackathon ideas while staying on my team, but senior management insisted that this was in the best interest of the company for catching-up and meeting our quarterly deadlines, and moved her). Alice is apparently miserable in the new role, as all she does is fix hideous technical debt and do boring, mundane tasks. I've made arrangements and communicated with Alice that I can guarantee she comes back to my team, with interesting work to do, within 3 months tops.

Unfortunately, Alice's attitude is changing in ways that are making other managers have a poor opinion of her. Some items included:

  • She hosted a team lunch-and-learn on career advancement, and gave career advice like "seek a significant raise or promotion every 3 years in your life, or your wasting your time with the company; learn when it's best to ladder-hop between employers if you want to afford a house and family in your lifetime"; broke out PowerPoint slides on real inflation, "Big Mac" index, etc. Management was pissed when they learned how "uninspiring" (to management) the lunch-and-learn was, and that they paid for the pizza.
  • She has been engaged in technical debates with more senior colleagues on how to best implement certain engineering features. On most of these debates, I'd say she is correct, but these senior engineers apparently discount her topics on account of her age. So she goes ahead and makes a demo of the idea on personal time (can't stop her from doing that) to prove her point. It angers other managers and senior engineers, but has created a sort of following around her among junior managers and engineers.

How do I coach someone like this and get them to ease-up a bit? Frankly, I was impressed with her demos and the blunt (and accurate) career advice lunch-and-learn, and Alice seems to have no problem earning the trust of our more junior engineers. I think she could have a serious positive impact on the company, and we should not necessarily make over-accommodating concessions for her, but at least keep her involved in engaging work. Sadly, my superiors (most of them) don't see things this way (i.e. "we don't get to choose the work we do; we're paid to do the assigned work"). Alice's aggressive attitude changes are also costing most of the support she once had from some senior managers too.

From my vantage point, my superiors are too unbending and myopic (I'm among the younger of the "senior managers"; most of my superiors are one "rank" above me, but are also 20+ years older than me), while Alice will succeed anywhere she goes, as long as she can keep a handle on her temper and ambition. Is there any salvaging this situation? Give the constraints I face, I'm starting to feel the only real option might be to write her a good letter of reference and let her go.

Glorfindel
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Villager
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  • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. – motosubatsu Mar 22 '22 at 08:06
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    Can you jump ship along with her? Sounds like you should also run for the hills. – GuilleOjeda Mar 22 '22 at 13:25
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    Yeah... they are going to lose a good employee. Or more with attitudes like that. But, as with anything, if management ain't interested you ain't going to right that ship. Icebergs ahead. – WernerCD Mar 22 '22 at 20:16
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    She sounds great! What is her LinkedIn? – DrMcCleod Mar 23 '22 at 15:21
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    And they paid for the pizza. Hilarious. – Tony Ennis Mar 23 '22 at 18:57
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    This goes to advice I am trying to implement in my life. "If no one is listening, stop talking". Upper management is not listening to you. – Pete B. Mar 23 '22 at 19:46
  • I think I want to marry Alice. – Hashim Aziz Mar 23 '22 at 20:50
  • start a company with her. – obotezat Mar 30 '22 at 10:33
  • I’d like to ask the reverse question. What have you or the company been doing right so far that she hasn’t already left? Or is it just her commitment to her peers? – Phoeniceus Agelaius Mar 30 '22 at 13:04
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    Does this "hideous technical debt" come from the senior engineers who refuse to listen to Alice? If so, you have right there a great argument to management for how essential she is to the company. – lala Mar 31 '22 at 08:36
  • The lunch and learn meeting was disrespectful towards the company. Is she really that great of an employee if she reacts emotionally like this? – Foo Mar 31 '22 at 11:15
  • I sometimes see questions like this about a very proficient employee. I'm just curious, is what makes a technical employee the most valuable is knowing the proprietary systems and workflow? Not something generic that could be learned from a book over a weekend. – smartname1 Apr 03 '22 at 22:26

15 Answers15

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the only real option might be to write her a good letter of reference and let her go.

This.

Then six months after Alice has left, get back in touch with her and see if she'll put in a good word for you at her new employer. That's the best route for you out from a company where senior management apparently doesn't appreciate great staff.

Philip Kendall
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    Alternately, you could start your own consulting company, and hire Alice as your star contractor. Then you both could afford houses. – A. I. Breveleri Mar 20 '22 at 18:17
  • Probably. But there's an anti-poaching clause in effect. I could maybe join her new company if things fall apart here, but no way I could get away with hiring her outright, for at least 2 years. – Villager Mar 20 '22 at 19:21
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    "You've got a problem at work so quit" is unfortunately advice that is often posted on this site without any real attempt to address the issues. – DJClayworth Mar 21 '22 at 01:09
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    Dissenting voice here. "Great staff" aren't people who will only do fun things and get surly and awkward when there's boring stuff to do. – Simon B Mar 21 '22 at 09:59
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    @DJClayworth What solution would you recommend? The fact is that a company is hierarchical and run by people who do not answer to you. If your goals (or ideas) and the company's goals (or ideas) no longer align, of course you should leave. Because there's fundamentally no way you're going to be able to change that. Especially if it's more than one person in upper management contesting it. Management will dig its own bed soon enough, and it's better to be out of the digging area when that happens :) – Aster Mar 21 '22 at 11:14
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    @DJClayworth. Not just any problem. Fundamental misalignment of goals. Putting an employee into a place where they don't belong due to shortsightedness is a great reason for them to leave. – Mad Physicist Mar 21 '22 at 14:47
  • Please clarify what sense of "let her go" this answer advocates. Literally, it seems to mean "allow her to quit" (and of course one can't stop her, but I'd take that to mean "don't keep futilely trying to retain her"). But "let her go" is also a very common euphemism meaning "dismiss/fire/lay her off". Presumably this latter isn't intended? – nanoman Mar 21 '22 at 15:00
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    @SimonB given that the boring stuff is not in the original job description, you can't really hold it against people that they're not gonna like it. They didn't sign up for it. – Erik Mar 21 '22 at 15:03
  • @DJClayworth That's because it's usually the best answer when the issues are either a fundamental incompatibility between an employee and a company or upper management that completely mishandles their staff. Alice has gone above and beyond, and she has done nothing illegal, immoral, or unprofessional. Instead of appreciating a talented and driven worker, management decided to have a problem with her inability to fall in line, so to speak. OP has tried to get them to change their tune, but they are unable or unwilling to do so. What else can be done at this point other than look for a new job? – Abion47 Mar 21 '22 at 15:08
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    @DJClayworth leaving is addressing the issue... for you. With the ease that American companies can fire staff there should be the same options given to employees going the other way. – Neil Meyer Mar 21 '22 at 15:34
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    @SimonB "Rewarding" staff who finish early with a worse assignment disincentivizes staff to complete tasks before the deadline. Also, the question shows that Alice is in fact working on the other legacy project, even on her own time, so I'm not quite sure your dissenting voice applies here. – Flater Mar 21 '22 at 18:26
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    @A.I.Breveleri I've seen a few people mention similar things to "start your own company with her". This is pretty unrealistic. It assumes that OP either already has an idea ready to go that is good enough to build a company around, or that they can easily get consulting clients immediately that have work interesting enough for Alice to do. – rooby Mar 22 '22 at 06:52
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    @DJClayworth because sticking around and trying to change company culture has always worked so well – MKHC Mar 22 '22 at 09:18
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    -1 this does not answer the question in any constructive manner. The question specifically asks how to retain the employee in the existing company. The answer is the opposite of that. Yes, it's frustrating, but this is also Stackexchange, so focusing on the actual question should be high priority. – AnoE Mar 22 '22 at 10:28
  • @AnoE Superficially, you're correct; this answer should have explicitly re-framed the question before providing an orthogonal response as an answer. Nevertheless some variation of this answer is usually the most up-voted answer to these kinds of questions, so the community really does think it's an answer and that it's useful. – employee-X Mar 22 '22 at 16:51
  • (continued) Here's an explicit re-framing that seems useful: Where the question says, Alice, rockstar, completed in 3mo work that had been planned to take 8mo for an average developer, you can interpret that to mean 3mo of work for an above-average developer was instead planned as 8mo of work, to accommodate the sub-par developer which the OP or organization is used to hiring. – employee-X Mar 22 '22 at 16:57
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    @employee-X, yes, of course, I know that this is the standard knee-jerk reaction of this community - I am not arguing against Philip's response per se, but I still find it frustrating that this must be so, here. These kinds of questions and cases are what keep me as a team lead in a not too small company busy all the time, I find them interesting and at the core of what it means to do good middle management in an IT (or otherwise) company. I find it sad that we (as a community) cannot really get beyond "just quit". It's either a destructive or in the best case just a boring answer. – AnoE Mar 23 '22 at 07:57
  • @AnoE I would challenge your assertion that it's either "a destructive or best case boring answer". You should consider the third possibility: namely that it's a moral answer? Because it is. Attempting to convince Alice to stay at this company, with it's toxic old-boy culture and awful leadership, is not necessarily the right thing to do. Obviously the OP is trying to do right by Alice, and it's amazing to see management going to bat for someone like this, but as many other answers have pointed out, there's nothing OP can do to actually improve things. She'd be better off elsewhere. – Fulluphigh Mar 23 '22 at 20:42
  • @Fulluphigh Every answer to this question is morally relevant, which makes it important to speak with honesty and thoughtfulness, but doesn't decide which answer is best. With nearly any workplace question, you need to keep in mind that the OP doesn't have the whole story. This is the same for any human interacting with others, because we each have only one POV, and no understanding of what happens outside our knowledge and experience, including the effects of our own actions. We can't assume Alice and OP are working toward their goal without error, so we can't assume it's another's fault. – employee-X Jun 27 '22 at 14:06
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You've got a number of things that you should do.

  1. Sell to upper management that Alice is a great productive employee and that replacing her would cost the company a lot. Give them details about how rare her skill set is, how long it might take to find a replacement. Don't address the issue of finding her interesting work with them. Excuse her behaviour that they have seen so far by telling them she has been demotivated and you are addressing the issue.
  2. Sit down with Alice and find out what she would consider interesting work, but within the bounds of work that would benefit the company, not just be fun for Alice. This level of balance is essential to any relationship between a company and a talented employee - management needs to understand that employees are not just machines to do whatever they are told, but employees also need to understand that they must produce work that benefits the company.
  3. When you've found some work that would interest her and be valuable to the company, pitch it to senior management not as a 'fun project' but as work that would be valuable to the company over time. Pitch Alice as the person to do it because of her exceptional skills. Back up your argument by pointing out that a much less experienced engineer could do Alice's current job virtually as well as she can - the company is wasting resources.
  4. Make sure Alice understands that she still has an interesting career at the company, but that it would help a lot if she toned down what she said when senior managers might listen. Tell her you will go to bat for her, and go to bat for her. Discuss her long term plans and commit to doing something to make them happen.
  5. Find other ways to improve Alice's work life, such as a title bump or a pay raise. Money may not be a primary motivation for her, but it can be persuasive in the short term and may prevent her immediate departure.
  6. The lunch and learn sounds bad, but I'm not clear if it was Alice being (a bit too) honest or her deliberately slapping the company in the face. If the latter then there is probably no hope. If the former then point out to senior management that what she said was actually true, and as long as the company treats its employees well then there is no danger in what she said. In future don't tell senior managers about team lunch and learns.

It is true that upper management is showing signs of not being effective, but that's not in itself a reason to give up on retaining a valuable employee.

DJClayworth
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    Point #2 might not be an issue in practice as "star" engineers can easily produce enough benefit for the company purely incidentally to whatever they want to play with. A goal of automating the monthly sales report can easily be addressed as a side effect of Alice implementing a chess engine in an Excel macro. Add to that any informal mentoring that comes with sitting right next to someone really brilliant and the result is that an "Alice" might not have to do any assigned work at all to be worth her salary. Then it becomes just a matter of ring-fencing your Alice from the higher-ups. – TooTea Mar 21 '22 at 09:12
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    That's true. But you have to pitch it as "Let's get Alice to automate the monthly sales report" rather than "Let's let Alice implement a chess engine". Silly example but I hope you know what I mean. – DJClayworth Mar 21 '22 at 12:44
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    @TooTea: As much as I'm not on the side of the company in this particular question; not every company has the budgetary freedom to let a rockstar roam freely and hope they bang out a hit once in a while, nor does every company's business context lend itself well to serendipitous discoveries. – Flater Mar 21 '22 at 13:58
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    @TooTea But even if "incidental" contributions can be worth her current salary, she (being very ambitious as well as talented) will soon find another company where the "real" work is interesting to her and so she can be paid much more because her passion and productivity will be strongly aligned with their business needs. – nanoman Mar 21 '22 at 15:11
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    OP already tried #1 and it didn't work. #2 also didn't pan out seeing as they already moved Alice to her current position against OP's council. OP already did #3 seeing as they anticipate their team having "interesting work" for Alice within the next three months, but Alice might not be willing to wait. The ship may have sailed with #4 seeing as Alice is already fed up with her current position and with how she has been treated by upper management. And as for #5, Alice didn't do anything inherently wrong, and management might even be in the wrong for wanting to reprimand her for doing it. – Abion47 Mar 21 '22 at 16:32
  • @TooTea The difference between your idea and #2 is that (I think) you're suggesting that the rockstar engineer should be free to choose their own projects and then look for serendipitous overlap with real business needs after the fact. There's a long road between the company as described by the OP and as imagined by my rephrasing of your idea. – employee-X Mar 22 '22 at 16:44
  • Tell upper management that Alice is going to take all of the junior managers and engineers with her when she goes.
  • – jeguyer Mar 23 '22 at 21:09
  • @jeguyer I'm not sure about that. "these senior engineers apparently discount her topics on account of her age". I suspect that not only does the company have poor managers, it also has poor engineers. – DJClayworth Mar 23 '22 at 22:41
  • @DJClayworth I was thinking about the statement that she "has created a sort of following around her among junior managers and engineers", but you're probably right – jeguyer Mar 24 '22 at 18:06
  • And you might well be right about her taking a whole pile of more junior engineers. – DJClayworth Mar 24 '22 at 18:07