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I started at my current company 2 months ago. I'm managing a team.

I receive very good feedback.

Today I discovered that some of my subordinates are paid much more than I am - around 20% more. (I don't know about the rest, I just got info about two of them).

They don't manage people and their responsibility is much, much more limited than mine. When something is not working, I'm called. They aren't. When they go home after 8-9 h of work, I still have a few before me, otherwise I would never manage the workload. They have more work experience than I do but our responsibilities are simply incomparable.

The salary I'm now making is exactly the salary I asked for during the recruitment process, but I now feel dramatically underpaid. Even more so, because I didn't expect to work such crazy hours for the salary I quoted during my recruitment.

My goal is to stay at this job, which I really like, but also get a fair salary. What should I do? Is it accepted that some managers get less than their subordinates or is this something strange?

The linked question is not from a manager comparing their salary to their subordinate's salaries. I do think it plays a role, since I'm expected to know more than my team members and to manage them. There's a clear hierarchy involved. I wouldn't feel the same about being "underpaid" compared to my peers or almost peers.

user4290
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  • " Is it accepted that some managers get less than their subordinates or is this something strange?" not strange at all, different jobs, different skillsets, different market position. – Aida Paul Jun 09 '20 at 16:10
  • @TymoteuszPaul, I save these people's asses when they don't know what to do. – user4290 Jun 09 '20 at 16:11
  • @TymoteuszPaul, the linked question is not from a manager comparing their salary to their subordinate's salaries. I do think it plays a role, since I'm expected to know more than my team members and to manage them. – user4290 Jun 09 '20 at 16:13
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    it really doesn't change the approach though, you got exactly the salary you asked for, so you are now in pretty tough spot to be asking for more. The answer there seems to address that well, hence why I recommended it. – Aida Paul Jun 09 '20 at 16:14
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    I have to say that if you treat your subordinates with the same disrespect as you refer to them in this post, I wouldn't want to work on your team. – Philip Kendall Jun 09 '20 at 16:24
  • @PhilipKendall, I know there are people who interpret the word "subordinate" as almost offensive, but it the hierarchy is important here. – user4290 Jun 09 '20 at 16:39
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    @user4290 It really isn't. You seem confused and somehow got the idea that managerial roles somehow must make more than people being managed. And that's just not universally true. I am sorry that you are unhappy in your new position, and I hope that you can talk with your boss about all the issues you are facing, like the long hours. – Aida Paul Jun 09 '20 at 16:54
  • @TymoteuszPaul, I just witnessed a conversation today among 2 people in my company boiling down to both directors telling: "your senior dev. can't earn less than your junior dev." cause there's a hierarchy between them and the junior won't listen to your senior if the senior earns less. So yes, it seems to be important where I work. I understand it's not your experience, it doesn't need to be. There are different work cultures obviously. – user4290 Jun 09 '20 at 16:58
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    @user4290 No, that's seniority reason, not hierarchy. Seniors and juniors do similar work but seniors are expected to do it "better" (don't crucify me, I am simplifying for the comments box) than juniors, so the idea that a senior makes less than a junior is indeed weird. Managers and developers thought are an entirely different career track, requiring different skills, commitment and solving different business problems. But all this is off topic here, I just tried to help you understand the difference. – Aida Paul Jun 09 '20 at 17:01
  • @TymoteuszPaul, the role of managers is different in different organizations. Sometimes it's a coordinative role. Sometimes it's a seniority level. In my company it's the latter. Manager is the level after senior dev. There's no expert track. I find it hard to understand why you don't believe there are different organizations. I've witnessed both models already. – user4290 Jun 09 '20 at 17:30
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    "They have more work experience than I do but our responsibilities are simply incomparable." Then why are you trying to compare salaries? – sf02 Jun 09 '20 at 17:30
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    If you just joined, you don't have much negotiation power. However, if you do decide to argue for a higher salary, the only reason that might work is this one: "I didn't expect to work such [crazy] hours for the salary I quoted during my recruitment." – Llewellyn Jun 09 '20 at 17:33
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    "I'm expected to know more than my team members and to manage them." In the context of software development, which is the example you brought up in your other comment, no, that is not the case. If a senior software developer suddenly left your team, would you be able to replace him yourself? No, you would not able to. Competent difficult-to-replace software developers can make more money than their own manager/director/VP/CEO. In one company I worked in, a Fortune 500 company, the top salespeople even made more money than the CEO himself. The CEO was expendable. The salespeople were not. – Stephan Branczyk Jun 09 '20 at 21:18
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    OP, are you a technically skilled employee, who happens to be a manager or are you a non-technical manager? This is critical. If you were to apply for a senior developer's position on your team, would you hire yourself into that position? Would another manager? If not, you simply cannot compare yourself to your employees. A career manager, leading a team of highly technically skilled individuals, will very most likely not earn as much. Are you simply a manager, or are you a VP? All of these things matter. – CGCampbell Jun 09 '20 at 23:38
  • Everyone I employ including the cleaner makes more than me at the moment – Kilisi Jun 09 '20 at 23:38
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    One other comment to the OP: it doesn't (shouldn't) matter to you what the people who work under your level make, nor those that work over your level. What do your peers (other managers) make as compared to you. If all of the other managers are within the same ball-park, suck it up. If not, then you either got low- or high-balled. If you can't directly ask them (due to company rules or environment, you can at least ask if anyone else also has higher paid employees, discreetly. – CGCampbell Jun 09 '20 at 23:42

4 Answers4

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The salary I'm now making is exactly the salary I asked for during the recruitment process

This is the key point here. Either you asked too little or their internal formula (if any), decided this is the right salary for you.

What should I do?

Either ways, you cannot do much at this point.

Is it accepted that some managers get less than their subordinates or is this something strange?

Accepted and happens all the time. So not strange at all.

PagMax
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My goal is to stay at this job, which I really like, but also get a fair salary. What should I do?

You asked for a salary for your position when you joined the company and you received exactly what you asked for. If you did not think that it was a fair salary then you should have either presented a counter offer or declined the position.

If you want to stay at this job then focus on your work and try to complete on your tasks within the allotted deadlines. Do not worry about what other employees, especially employees at a different position that yourself, are earning. If you want to earn more money at your current position, you will need to demonstrate to your boss how your work and responsibilities brings added value to the company to justify increasing your salary. Otherwise, the alternative is to be promoted to a different position or look for another company to work for that will pay you what you feel you deserve.

sf02
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It definitely does happen. But it should happen in a way in which it "makes sense". Like in large engineering companies, you have a "management track" and an "individual contributor" track, as well as certain career levels, which essentially say how good of an engineer the company thinks you are (massive simplification here). Compensation is based on these levels. But it's not uncommon to have higher-level ICs report to lower-level managers, and acting as team leads or persons responsible for some tricky technical problems. If that's the case you'll see this sort of inversion and it makes sense, because the influence and responsability of the higher-level ICs is much higher than their manager's.

OTOH, if that's not the case, and you're seeing "noise" you might perhaps have some recourse. But no company is going to like to hear "You need to pay me more 2 months after being hired because I found out (perhaps not up to code) that a report makes more than me".

Horia Coman
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    I love having staff who make more than I do - it makes my job waaaaay easier if they are really good at what they do. – Jon Custer Jun 09 '20 at 18:34
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The answer to that is going to depend on a few things.

First, it matters what you're willing to let yoru failure state be. Either you want a raise, and to stay on with the company, but you're willing to suck it up and deal on the salary if you have to, or you want a raise and to stay on with the company, but if pushing for that raise loses you the job, then you're willing to accept that.

Second, it matters who your bosses are and how large the company is. The world where "how much do you get paid" is determined by your direct superior, and they care about your morale is a very different one than the major firm where those decisions get made at a much higher level and/or an HR office that you almost never interact with, and they're both quite different from a case where you on a first-name basis with the CEO but he has no sympathy for you.

Let's look at the breakdown, then. - If you're in a large company, you're pretty much done already. They have a strong institutional incentive to not respond to attempts to renegotiate salary, and for the most part they won't. If you decide that the job simply isn't worth having at the current rate, then you might be able to figure out who has the authority to approve such things and talk with them, but understand that the kind of leverage you'd have to bring to bear to make this happen means that losing the job (either on the spot or shortly thereafter) becomes the likeliest result. If your direct superior is sympathetic, you could talk with them, and try to ask them to try to get you a raise, and you migth be able to convince them to help you out on that one... but there's a very good chance that they will fail, and nothing will change, even if it starts out lookign promising.

  • If you're in a small, sympathetic company, then you can go talk with them. Explain your frustration. Express that the job that you now have requires many more hours than you'd understood it to when you made your initial request, and that the combination of that and the fact that your'e paid less than your subordinates is eroding your ability to be happily productive. See if they'll help you. They'll probably at least be willing to talk about it.

  • If you're in a small, unsympathetic company it's sort of in the middle. If you actually care about keeping the job even if you cannot get a raise, then you're done. There are no techniques here that are even moderately safe. On the other hand, the institutional incentives are lower than with a larger corp, and you've got better chances overall. You'll know your target audience better and can thus tune the approach. You can speak with them more easily. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, they're more likely to actually need you.

It's risky in most cases, impossible in some cases, but not impossible in all cases.

Ben Barden
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