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I am currently working as a senior Android engineer at a startup for the last 10 months. When I joined I was the single Android developer working towards the product development. I have worked very hard and turned the product that was just imagination to reality. Now the product is doing well in the market and we have good number of customers to integrate the product with. The company is also expanding as we have very few resources and we are also recruiting.

I recently came across a job advertisement on a recruitment platform posted by my company for the same role as mine and came to know that they are offering almost 50% to 100% more remuneration than I am getting. In the advertisement the work experience requirement is 3+ years whereas I have 6+ years of experience. I would like to know how can I approach this situation, as I feel like let down.

There are other key positions in the firm for which the company is handing out equity. When I joined the advertisement for job which I accepted had equity option mentioned, but when I asked for clarification they said it was put up by mistake and they will remove it.

Bernhard Barker
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nightfury101
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7 Answers7

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If this job is offered at your own company, you have to decide: Is your own salary too low, is the salary offered too high, or both? And consider this is happening at the worst possible time (April 2020).

If your own salary is too low, then try finding a better or much better paying job elsewhere. If you find it, you take it and leave. Don’t consider any counter offer. You have been knowingly underpaid, so you owe your present company nothing.

If you think your salary is fine, and find out there’s a job offer for a much higher salary, you can talk to your boss. Obvious question is “what’s the difference between this role and mine”. If there is no difference in roles you can ask the boss what he thinks about increasing your salary.

user7761803
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gnasher729
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    I will be completing one year in 2 months, would that be good time to discuss this. I feel bad especially as I went extra mile whenever I was required to do without any benefit. – nightfury101 Apr 08 '20 at 16:41
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    @nightfury101 - dont bring emotions into this, either you were underpaid or the role is NOT the same. Also right now with corona happening it is not the ideal time. Either ask for a raise or find a new job and get a better offer. – JonH Apr 08 '20 at 19:28
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    While I agree that nothing is owed to the current company if the OP decides to leave, it seems a bit extreme to not consider a counter offer. The current salary was previously agreed upon by the OP and the company, so why would the company offer more out of the blue if the OP never expressed any dissatisfaction with the pay? – Pak Apr 09 '20 at 12:59
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    "You have been knowingly underpaid" It's not the companies moral obligation to offer you more payment if you don't ask for it. After all, the company has an agreement with you; why would they go out of their way to change it if you don't express being unhappy with it? – DarkWiiPlayer Apr 09 '20 at 13:53
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    I know it's "the way things are" TM, but I really hate the model of making employees negotiate their salary, and only giving them a raise if they push for it, or more likely only giving raises to those who bring in money, and employees only upping their salary by job hopping. It's common decency (which is sadly lacking) to pay people commensurate to the value they provide you, not what you can get away with paying them. But sadly this is not the way things are, and realistically not the way they've ever been. – bob Apr 09 '20 at 15:03
  • @Pak Context is important here. Gnasher is saying don't consider a counter offer when you're telling them you're leaving. This is different from OP simply notifying the employer that he's dissatisfied and asking about a change in pay. There are other questions on the site that go into detail about the counter offer dilemma, but there's a decent chance the employer isn't trying to keep you from leaving, just trying to keep you from leaving before they're ready. – Steve-O Apr 09 '20 at 15:28
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    @bob I'm sure when you want your house remodeled or your car has an issue you also look for the contractor who asks for a payment "commensurate to the value they provide you", and not for the cheapest one you can get away with. – Demonblack Apr 09 '20 at 16:17
  • @Demonblack If they offer a fixed price, I generally assume that it's a fair price, and if I feel it's too low then I assume the quality must be lacking. If the price is negotiated, then yes I do want to make sure I'm paying them a fair price for the work performed. It's a two-way street as you point out. – bob Apr 09 '20 at 16:33
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    @Demonblack Fallacious comparison, because the relationship is completely different - the contractor is the one that sets the fee, and one would expect them to charge whatever is commensurate to the value they believe they provide. It's the equivalent of an employee telling their employer "I'll resign if you don't raise my pay to X", and how many employees do that? Almost none, because while they don't like being underpaid, they like their job security more. Employers understand this power relationship and use it to their advantage. – Ian Kemp Apr 09 '20 at 16:38
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    @IanKemp I think that's a ridiculous use of the term "power relationship". Employers provide benefits (job security, stability, consistency in pay) which is difficult to achieve on one's own, so people who prefer to be employees are making a choice. You're free to start your own business or be self-employed, but then you won't enjoy the benefits of being an employee. That's not a power relationship, any more than me trying to buy something from a store that they have and I want is a "power relationship" between myself and the store. – Greg Schmit Apr 09 '20 at 19:09
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    @Greg Schmit your relationship with the store is also a power relationship. They have more power than you because they have more information than you. They have information about what other people have bought from them and the price they paid, continuously over a long period. They have information about wholesale distribution patterns and prices. Depending on the store and the item, they may have the power of controlled scarcity, because you can't get that item anywhere else. All you have is the prices you've seen sporadically when you visit that store or its competitors. – Tim Sparkles Apr 09 '20 at 21:48
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    @DarkWiiPlayer It's not the company is obligated to raise your salary or is somehow morally not allowed to underpay you if you're willing to accept it. It's that if they want to retain you, they will pay you well because otherwise you will look for a job elsewhere and you are under no obligation to give them an opportunity to offer you a raise. Companies that want to keep their employees always pay them market wages because they know that by the time an employee realizes they've been underpaid, it is often too late to fix the problem. – David Schwartz Apr 09 '20 at 22:59
  • @Bob - I was disappointed when collective bargaining agreements were outlawed in my country. I'm typical a fairly passive person and in many instances will put up with more than others would. On the other hand, oil and cash are not endlessly abundant. I only oil things as the need appears to arise. If they're not going to break-down or require extra maintenance without it, they're not getting it. As the eons-old saying goes - the squeakiest wheel gets the most oil. – enhzflep Apr 10 '20 at 01:40
  • @IanKemp I've done that more than once in the last couple years. "Hey boss, I'm sorry but I got an offer of from and I'm gonna leave". You don't have to be an ass to them. Boss talked to upper boss, and I got a matching or exceeding offer each time. And there is no such thing as the "power relationship" you're describing in IT. Competent IT professionals are in such high demand that companies are literally falling over themselves to try to steal each other's. I get unsolicited job offers practically every week. – Demonblack Apr 15 '20 at 19:49
  • @Timbo "your relationship with the store is also a power relationship. They have more power than you" No, they don't, because stores aren't the only ones who know the market price of a product. There are a million different stores and if one is grossly overpricing every product I and everyone else simply go to the one next door which isn't and the first one goes bankrupt. You have a very distorted view of capitalism. – Demonblack Apr 15 '20 at 19:53
  • @enhzflep Collective agreements are a start but they're geared to the lowest common denominator. If I was being paid according to the salary tables and titles in our collective agreement I'd be making a hell of a lot less than what I am. – Demonblack Apr 15 '20 at 19:59
  • @demonblack "I and everyone have equal access to each of a million stores" is a distorted view of capitalism and of reality. Yes, obviously if one store is charging 50% more on every item than their neighbor store, everyone will go to the neighbor store instead. But my neighborhood only has one store. It costs me more to get to the next store than I would save. The store two neighborhoods over advertises great prices on their loss leaders, then charges 5% than their competitors on everything else... – Tim Sparkles Apr 15 '20 at 22:44
  • ... The (grocery, say) store has data from millions of customers buying thousands of products in hundreds of locations, all day every day for longer than I've been alive. I have data from a couple dozen stores in a handful of locations about a hundred products weekly since late childhood. Each store has several orders of magnitude more information than each customer. – Tim Sparkles Apr 15 '20 at 22:46
  • @Timbo "But my neighborhood only has one store. It costs me more to get to the next store than I would save." Then the one store is providing you a valuable service by existing in your neighbourhood when all the others won't bother. The fact the store has more information doesn't give them "power" over you, it just lets them know what is a fair market price that people are willing to pay for their products. Again, if you still think their price is too high you can, easily, drive to another store even if it costs you a bit of fuel. – Demonblack Apr 16 '20 at 09:36
  • @Timbo The fact you don't bother to go the next neighbourhood shows that the original store isn't trying to excercise any evil "power" over you and are in fact charging a fair price. Also I don't know where you live (suburbs in the US I'm guessing), but here I have like 15 supermarkets within a 5 minute drive of my apartment. Even 5000 people villages will have at least one or two supermarkets here in Italy. – Demonblack Apr 16 '20 at 09:39
  • @Demonblack Nobody said anything about "evil". I am saying a) large organizations tend to have vastly more information than individuals, and b) information is power, thus c) large organizations have vastly more power than individuals. You seem to have some other tangentially related concepts bundled into your concept of power dynamics? – Tim Sparkles Apr 16 '20 at 17:39
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Apply for the other job at your company.

Write up your resume and a cover letter, make it clear that you're currently employed with the business in them, then either send it through the internal job system if your business has one, or send it in through the application process like any other applicant if you don't. It's not uncommon for businesses to have employees move between different positions at the same company. This sort of process is even the preferred method that some companies use for internal promotions.

You might want to have a chat with your boss about it first to make sure that you don't ruffle any feathers before doing so, though.

Community
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nick012000
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    I would argue that anyone needing to ask such a question on this site has not enough experience in "managing the managers" to pull up something like this successfully. Ruffling feathers with this approach is probably unavoidable for OP and can only end in tears in the current job market climate. – Luc Apr 09 '20 at 09:32
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    @Luc Some feathers need to be ruffled if you want things to happen. And if the company is still hiring less qualified people for more money than they currently pay, then they are obviously not in downsizing mode. – Philipp Apr 09 '20 at 13:00
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    I'd agree with Phillipp that some ruffling is good here. A chat with your boss would be good, sure; but that chat should also include you asking your boss "Why are you hiring externally without circulating the role internally?" This is important. Companies can get into trouble under due diligence rules for not considering external applicants for a role, but they can equally well get into trouble under constructive dismissal rules for failing to make a position available to internal applicants, especially if that pushes out an existing employee who is already doing this at a lower salary. – Graham Apr 09 '20 at 13:12
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    ... The company should be especially concerned about this if the OP happens to fit any group who could be discriminated against on ethnic/religious/gender/age/sexual orientation. To win a lawsuit for that doesn't even require the employee to show that discrimination was intentional, only that the company made no effort to widen their pool of candidates. Whilst the OP probably doesn't want to go there, any halfway-competent HR person should be protecting the company against the possibility of this. – Graham Apr 09 '20 at 13:28
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    This seems risky to do during COVID-19. What if OP fails to get the "new" job and is summarily shown the door? Wouldn't it be better in this case to look for a new external job, and only jump ship with an offer in hand? – bob Apr 09 '20 at 15:06
  • @bob Hence talk to your manager first to make sure you don't ruffle any feathers. You're not jumping ship, just transferring laterally. – nick012000 Apr 10 '20 at 01:14
  • I agree with Graham. I feel sure OP is in one of the groups that automatically get discriminated against. OP should consider carefully what would happen if they left now, and what the industry response would be if they spoke to one of the industry gossip commenters-would it hurt their ISO? If the company would tank without you, and they turn you down, (assuming you have savings) quit and apply for the job. See Up the Organization by Rob Townsend--Figure on moving on anyway. – VWFeature Apr 10 '20 at 01:19
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    Isn't there a possibility (remote) that the company is testing the waters? Companies do post fake jobs to see what kinds of resumes they get for a given salary. – danak Apr 10 '20 at 17:56
  • It depends on the culture whether more (key) people at the company will see this as audacity and initiative or going over your boss' head -- i.e. gross insubordination. So the success of this stunt basically boils down to if it manages to impress them enough. – ivan_pozdeev Apr 12 '20 at 14:28
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    @VWFeature "I feel sure OP is in one of the groups that automatically get discriminated against." And you feel that based on what? The fact that the company is doing what companies do and trying to pay their employees the lowest amount they can get away with? Or just because OP made a couple minor grammatical errors and therefore you're assuming they're a poor discriminated immigrant who need you to come save them on your white horse? Stop seeing discrimination everywhere when there's literally zero evidence of it, it's not healthy. – Demonblack Apr 16 '20 at 09:46
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How to approach about company hiring for same role with almost double the pay?

You don't.

If you suspect or feel that you are underpaid, follow the many other great questions we have on the site, for example: How should I properly approach my boss if I'm feeling underpaid? to find out how to proceed best. It never hurts to put some feelers out to get a good sense of the market, as long as your employer won't find out.

If you do not suspect or feel you are not underpaid, stick to what you are making and pay no mind to others salary.

Trying to twist someone else's higher pay as a reason for you to get paid more when you do not feel that you are underpaid, is going to make you look greedy, and maybe even trying to take advantage. If you want to make more money, focus on what you bring to the company, and how does that merit a raise, not what others may be making.

I'll also point out that that's just a job advertisement, not someone else's actual pay. You are assuming that the person who will get this job will be at your level of experience and responsibility and that they will even get that pay. Job advertisements are really more of a "we hope to get", and end result may be greatly different from where you've started. And that's true for both sides, both what quality of employee the company gets, and what the employee gets paid when it's all said and done.

Jens
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Aida Paul
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    Much harder to be happy with your salary when you know you’re underpaid. – gnasher729 Apr 08 '20 at 13:17
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    @gnasher729 you only know that you are underpaid when you have an offer on hand for more money. Until that point, you are speculating, with varying degrees of certainty. – Aida Paul Apr 09 '20 at 08:46
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I would do the following:

  1. Search the job market for a new job, be ready to actually switch jobs.
  2. Ideally, get at least one serious (written) offer.
  3. Make some copies of the advertisement for the higher paid job fro your current company.

  4. Approach your boss / HR / company with the two offers you have:

    • from the new company;
      • note: you might want to keep this offer for a later phase, to not ruin your chances from the beginning. Maybe the company is willing to see the things your way without threats;
    • from your current company (the one with 100% increase);

  5. Ask them to decide the path to proceed:

    • they just double your salary;
    • you quit, and then you apply for the higher paid job; same as the previous, but more work needed;
    • you just quit and take the new job at the new company.

You might actually get the salary increase, if the company is actually any good.

If they do not double your salary, just go for the other job. Your future prospects in the current company are shady at best.

My understanding is that you do not only "feel" underpaid (as suggested by another answer), but you are quite sure that the company is very unfair to you, considering that they are willing to pay newcomers a lot more than pay you, instead of properly promoting you for the job done.

Of course, I cannot analyze the situation as good as you can. You need to do your homework, take the proper decisions, and follow them.

virolino
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    I would not present the offer from the other company as it would meant you're ready to leave and risk to flag you as "must be replaced" or "do not promote". But it agree you need to have it to get insurance and able to hold your stance if you go in "give me a raise or I quit because I find the situation unfair" – JayZ Apr 08 '20 at 13:29
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    I really wouldn't jump into the "unfair" thinking. OP either will be able to find a better-paying offer, or have to live with the reality that's this is what he is worth on the marketplace as it is. There is a lot more to a salary than a title and list of responsibility. – Aida Paul Apr 08 '20 at 14:57
  • @TymoteuszPaul the new recruit are supposed to be guided by me when in comes to any tech related difficulties. does this make any difference? – nightfury101 Apr 09 '20 at 07:45
  • @nightfury101 Why would it? You will have more experience in the company and their existing apps/ongoing projects than even most senior developers who just joined. – Aida Paul Apr 09 '20 at 07:47
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--> Make them say that it is basically the same job as yours,... before letting them explain the salary differences.

You might want to prepare for resistance on their side, e.g. some made up arguments why a higher payment is justified for that role.

You could tell that you heard there might be a new role, working very close to you. What part of your current job you should prepare to handover to a new colleauge.

--> Make them say that it is basically the same job as yours. If they don´t say it directly, sum up their statements "that the jobs are the same" and get their approval.

Then it is way easier to ask them for clarification concerning the salary differences. They might have additional "made up" arguments, that this is only a upper boundary, that is practically not given to anyone. Then you could ask what the upper boundary is for 6 instead of 3 years of experience and play that card.

To sum up, i would try to catch their excuses and make some pressure simply by asking for clarification. They have a weak reasoning. Use that before you look for external roles.

BigDataScientist
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    If you want to engage in a round of "Bullshit-Bingo" with your Boss, be prepared that he has much more experience in playing that game than you will ever have! – Daniel Apr 10 '20 at 12:32
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    @Daniel maybe... but the Boss's starting position is really weak, here. – Ben Barden Apr 10 '20 at 15:29
  • @BenBarden The Boss starting position is really not so weak. He has a agreed upon contract and it is his full right to just say no. Technically how he runs his business is non of OP´s problems. So op has a lot of ways to loose here. Better make salary negotiations only about you and your market value and just cut out the bullshit. – Daniel Apr 10 '20 at 16:15
  • @Daniel yah, but the boss is also capable of arguing about market value, and has more of a home field advantage there (as it's much more subjective). The job advertisement is a smoking gun that the boss themselves thinks that OP is worth quite a lot more than they're paying him - and it's an extreme enough case that it'd be hard to argue out from under it. – Ben Barden Apr 10 '20 at 18:07
  • @BenBarden: First: no, if you have a good enough feeling about his market value (if not, writ some applications!), there is really not much argument to be made to counter this. Second no, as you don´t really know what´s behind this new job.

    If you rented a flat a year ago and now you see the flat down the hallway advertised for twice the rent, do you go to your landlord and demand to pay more yourself?

     – Daniel Apr 10 '20 at 18:28
  • @Daniel that argument is so warped it's farcical. Of course I wouldn't demand to pay more rent. Why would I? On the other hand, if it was advertised for half as much, and I wasn't under a binding contract, I'd certainly consider using that as part of an argument why my rent ought to be reduced. Beyond that... getting an actual judgement of your value on the market requires more than just filling out a few applications. That investment of time and effort can be nontrivial. This datapoint here is much more clear-cut. – Ben Barden Apr 10 '20 at 18:41
  • You think? My experience shows otherwise! Once you present yourself as a serious professional selling his workforce to another professional, you will treated as such. As long as you keep the childish "But I want the same as he has over there ..." you will be treated accordingly. – Daniel Apr 10 '20 at 19:16
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You say you "...came to know" the salary amount and I think that surfaces another question, because it sounds like your company may not be actually advertising the figure you know about, or that you may have heard it second-hand or from a source that is not 100% verifiable. It seems odd that anyone within the company would actually discuss this at all, especially to someone already working in that role.

It's my experience that companies (in the software market) often won't publish a figure and will make an offer that is appropriate to the experience of the candidate. so that figure might be a theoretical max, and not a guarantee of what any given candidate would get.

In either case it may also be that they are looking for someone much more "Senior" than you are. I've certainly been in roles where other, more experienced people were hired into positions similar or even above mine, simply because the needs of the company were expanding and they needed someone with broader and deeper experience.

Christopher Hunter
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Have you had any kind of performance review since you worked in your role? Has your work been audited by someone? What was the outcome?

I'm surprised no other answers touch on this, but you only mentioned/compared years worked which is a really poor metric for determining developer skill.

My initial thought reading this is that if the company is looking for a new developer they are willing to pay more for, that they are unhappy with the current state of the team.

Another alternative I see is that they are advertising the maximum they could afford for the role but are planning to avoid offering the full amount during negotiation.

I see the performance issue being more likely since you have not been offered equity, you seem to have been unaware of the plan to hire for this new role and you have not been offered a lead role. This leads me to believe your company is either unhappy with your performance, or wants somebody with more knowledge to lead you / help you develop.

With this in mind, if you are going to have a conversation with your bosses I agree you should lead with asking what the differences are between the newly offered role and your own, but you should also make a record of your own accomplishments and ask them for feedback on your performance. Only then will you be prepared to ask about having your salary increased and meet any objections.

Remember even if you do great work, if your peers are non-technical they may not understand the work you put in

Nick Cardoso
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