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I'm a senior developer and team lead that's been with my company since leaving college. I've recently found that a colleague, who was hired last year as a senior engineer (so a step below me technically) is on roughly 20% higher wages than I am.

Two years ago I asked for a wage increase when I took on the team lead role and was told no the money wasn't there. I received my cost of living adjustment this year plus a raise which amounted to 12%. The 20% difference is after this was applied so this time last year I was closer to 30% below my colleague.

Given that I was refused this raise in the past how should I approach the conversation. My initial thought is to mention to my manager that I discovered the wage being paid to my colleague and mention that I would like to discuss the situation later in the week.

Edit - Thanks all just some clarifications from the comments.

  1. My colleague has less overall experience than me and I am also a senior developer, not just a team lead. I perform the menial team lead stuff as well as actively developing.

  2. I'm also looking around for another opportunity, that's not what I'm asking about. What I'm looking for is an approach to the negotiation.

  3. IANAL (I am not a lawyer) but I believe that salary rates are not confidential in my country or contract

  4. My colleague has handed in his notice so it's natural for discussion of salary to have come up between us

Rubio Jesús
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Anonymost
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  • It's worth finding out if your company has non-disclosure of salary norms before you mention that you know how much the junior is paid. – An SO User Jun 24 '19 at 13:18
  • Note that team lead isn't necessarily "above" a senior developer, a team lead can be seen as serving the team and doing the menial tasks - thus below or on par with the rest of the team. Not saying this is the case here or that you should see it like this, just that there is no automatism that makes a team lead more valuable salary-wise than another team member. – Frank Hopkins Jun 24 '19 at 13:20
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    In my experience, you'll have better raise by changing company than staying a long time at the same position. What you are experiencing is very common. Anyway, you shouldn't put your colleague in a delicate situation, he has nothing to do in this situation. You shouldn't value yourself in comparison to him. – Bebs Jun 24 '19 at 13:20
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    Where are you located? Your ability to use the salary information of your colleague may depend on the policy of your locality. – Jay Jun 24 '19 at 13:20
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    A question so similar was posted last week, now not to be found... – Solar Mike Jun 24 '19 at 13:24
  • How much experience did your "junior" colleague have prior to joining your company? If you've been with the company since it got founded, but he's been working in IT since a decade before your company got founded, him getting paid more would be understandable. – nick012000 Jun 24 '19 at 13:27
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    See this and the duplicate : https://workplace.stackexchange.com/q/138479/75821 – Solar Mike Jun 24 '19 at 13:28
  • "my colleague handed in his notice" Sounds like the "we don't have the money" excuse doesn't have legs considering they are about to have more available shortly... – WernerCD Jun 25 '19 at 01:20
  • hey! if you do not want the job, I do! :D – John Balvin Arias Jun 25 '19 at 02:36
  • in what country do you live? in some countries it is allowed to speak about a salary, regardless what your contract says – BЈовић Jun 25 '19 at 06:21
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    @Bebs to clarify I've cleared mentioning my colleagues wages with him if required though I'm taking the general advice to not mention it at the beginning of the negotiations. My colleague was pretty shocked he assumed I was somewhere around 25% above him – Anonymost Jun 25 '19 at 10:33
  • Are you certain that Senior Developer and Senior Engineer are one and the same in your company..? – Tryb Ghost Jun 26 '19 at 15:46

7 Answers7

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Your value to the organisation isn't based on on your colleagues pay, as much as that sucks in a situation like this.

If you want a pay rise in your current workplace then you will need to give your manager reasons why you deserve more than you currently make. Your colleague earning more than you is not that reason - it needs to be based on what you deliver.

If you're being paid less than the market rate for your level of experience in your area then your best bet is to find a new position in an organisation that's prepared to offer you what you think you're worth.

Player One
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    One thing I've heard a lot by really good senior developer partners, "I am really happy in the company. I also have seen interesting projects outside, with better salary, and an interest in my experience. What can you offer me?" Even though you might be happy in your company, your work must be valued as it is! If other companies value it high, why not yours? – M.K Jun 24 '19 at 14:07
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    Also, your salary isn't based on your value to the company. – Aron Jun 25 '19 at 01:33
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    Your salary is based on their will to keep you. If you are not looking outside, why they would bother give your more? Want a raise? Make them think how much they want to keep you, how much they need you. – aloisdg Jun 25 '19 at 07:53
  • @Aron "Also, your salary isn't based on your value to the company." Could you elaborate on that? What is it based on then? – Sebi Jun 25 '19 at 12:07
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    @Sebi It is simply based on how little they think they can pay you. In this case, they think they can pay him peanuts. If they paid everyone what they are worth, they would make zero profit by definition. – Aron Jun 25 '19 at 12:11
  • @Sebi In a perfect frictionless economy your value to the company is your salary but in reality you need to account for the inertia that comes with a reluctance to leave and usually also how well-informed you are about the ammount you could be paid in other places. – Borgh Jun 25 '19 at 12:13
  • @M.K The problem with this approach is that if, for some chance, you actually get the raise after such a comment (i.e. hinting that you might leave) then your relationship with your current employers is pretty much done: first of all, confidence is lost, as they just showed that they know you are being underpaid yet they are willing to do whatever it takes not to pay the salary you deserve. Secondly, it is a trick you can only play once: you just cannot threaten to leave each time you want a raise, as per point one, the confidence only diminishes at each iteration. – busman Jun 25 '19 at 15:17
  • then next time, just ask for a raise as simply as that! @busman – M.K Jun 26 '19 at 06:53
  • @M.K As I see it, it is not "as simple as that", as the memory of the initial threat will remain. So, at the next iteration, even if you have no intention to make the threat again, the employer will feel compelled to think that a new threat will arrive if they do not comply. It poisons the relationship no matter how you look at it. Basically, the raise that comes after a resignation threat is the very last raise you'll get from that employer. – busman Jun 26 '19 at 11:15
  • You should not look at it as a thread. You just know your value. And you need your company to value you as you do. If they don't, you go to another place that values you properly. No threads here, I do not understand what you are saying. In the end, think that companies will fire you if they find someone else more suitable than you. Why not leaving if you find somewhere more suitable for you? @busman – M.K Jun 26 '19 at 11:17
  • The reasons for leaving are always legitimate, as legitimate as the resons the employer may have to fire you. There is no disagreement to that. My point is that asking for raise "or otherwise I'll leave" (i.e. making a threat) is an ill-advised strategy in the long run, especially if you plan on staying with the same employer. Just ask for the raise, and if you plan on leaving if you don't get it, this is a piece of information that is better kept for oneself, as per the reasons explained above. – busman Jun 26 '19 at 11:21
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It's definitely worth negotiating your salary again with this new information.

Ask for time to discuss your role and salary with your manager. Make it clear before the meeting that the purpose of the discussion includes negotiation of your current compensation. This allows your manager to come prepared with an understanding of what is possible and what isn't.

Be specific with your proposal. Let you manager know exactly what you are requesting in compensation - don't just say "I want a raise." If you are more senior than your colleague, it would be reasonable to ask for at least that level of compensation.

You don't need to reveal why you are asking for a raise. Your compensation is about you and your capabilities, not what others are earning.

Unfortunately, it may be the case that your manager is limited in how much of a raise they can offer you once you're an employee. It isn't uncommon for a manager to have much more flexibility with compensation during hiring than for existing employees.

Good luck with the conversation!

Jay
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    It isn't uncommon for a manager to have much more flexibility with compensation during hiring than for existing employees. <- this. Actually, some companies have explicit policies concerning how much of % of a raise they can give to an existing employee, but no real hard ceiling on how much they can pay a newcomer, if they really* need him*. –  Jun 24 '19 at 22:25
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The easiest way to get a raise is to get a new job

You can revisit with your boss, but you're probably best pointing out salary difference relative to the market, not an individual coworker. Make sure you know the going rate in your city, then go to your boss. Realize they still probably won't have the money for a raise.

If you don't get a raise, consider getting a new job.

sevensevens
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Your employer owes you nothing in regards to wages. You chose to accept and work for the wage. Having said that, if they plan on keeping employees happy, they should pay market value, and it's not unreasonable that you should expect to be paid what you're worth. If your employer doesn't pay you, you can go elsewhere and get it.

All that said, how do you approach the subject with management? I'd personally shy away from saying "Bob is getting xxxxx per year...why can't I?" I think it just portrays you in a bad light. I'd be wary of telling the boss you've been discussing it with coworkers.

I'd just come out and make the case that you're making below market value, and that you know that there must be money there, because they've been hiring. If they value you, they'll give you the raise. Be prepared to start looking for a job. Oftentimes, significant salary increases only come when a person switches jobs. Far too often, employers don't realize it costs more to hire new employees than to just give a raise.

Keith
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You Can't.

They will not ready for this negotiation OR you will get some more peanuts.

I'm a senior developer and team lead that's been with my company since leaving college

and

colleague, who was hired last year

This comparison is the problem.

Based on my own experience in India, this comparison will never work.

I am earning almost 40% less than the current market salary and my company is hiring people from outside by paying that 40% more salary than me.

But, they are not at all ready to negotiate with me.

because, they are believing that I will be with them and will not go to other company.

Anyway I am going to be here, So why they need to pay me more?

So, I suggest that don't compare your salary with anyone.

Else if you really want that salary, go and get it.

Community
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NiceGuy
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1

My initial thought is to mention to my manager that I discovered the wage being paid to my colleague and mention that I would like to discuss the situation later in the week.

Don't mention that you know how much your colleague is being paid. In most companies, salary/wages information is meant to be confidential. Secondarily, salary/wages are paid based on what each individual negotiates for themselves and accepts. It's up to you to negotiate the salary/wage you want. Leave your colleague out of it.

If you believe that you're worth more than be prepared to show why you are worth more and then ask for the raise you think you deserve.

If you don't get the salary you think you deserve then you have only two choices:

  1. Continue with your current company at the salary/wage you have now.

  2. Find a job elsewhere that will pay you the salary you desire.

joeqwerty
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    Actually in many places restricting the free speech of employees in this way is illegal. – Neuromancer Jun 24 '19 at 23:58
  • Huh? Where is this illegal? – joeqwerty Jun 25 '19 at 00:17
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    The USA for one, likewise all English speaking countries. https://medium.com/@BlindApp/your-right-to-discuss-salaries-and-wages-in-the-workplace-f9b456f1d5bd – Neuromancer Jun 25 '19 at 00:19
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    There are specific laws in the US that cover retaliation against people discussing salary. (The same laws that make retaliation against people forming unions illegal, so there's a bit of a disconnect between what's illegal on paper and what's enforced.) No 1st amendment needed at all. https://www.npr.org/2014/04/13/301989789/pay-secrecy-policies-at-work-often-illegal-and-misunderstood – user3757614 Jun 25 '19 at 00:56
  • The First Amendment doesn't apply to the workplace, but as Neuromancer pointed out, it looks like the NLRA has some applicability here. – joeqwerty Jun 25 '19 at 01:00
  • Also illegal in germany. It's explicitly spelled out to be illegal to prevent people from discussing salary with their colleagues. That doesn't stop companies from trying, of course. – Magisch Jun 25 '19 at 07:58
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There will be always salary discrepancies:

  • Some people negotiate better than others;
  • some people enter the job, in a better job market than others;
  • some need to be paid more to recruit them away from the last job;
  • some have some talents commanding a higher salary on the market.

In theory, it is none of your business why they do make more than you; in practice, it is justifiable to ask a boss, in certain scenarios, why receiving less.

In my first job, where I was green, and got recruited with a lower salary, when I helped recruit a friend to come on board commanding a higher salary, I saw through it that I was badly paid, and had that conversation. My friend was sightly older, more experienced in life than me, but it was much less IT smart. At least they had the good sense to make our salaries equal.

So if you feel you as a leader are earning less, are worth more, and the excuse was money not being there, I would not do without other angles, but would also use the knowledge of the salary of other person. Knowledge is power. The most it can happen is being said no.

Rui F Ribeiro
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