Coworker keeps threatening to tattle on me for "time theft"

Question

One of my coworkers is especially nosy and keeps tabs on when I come to work and leave, and how long my lunch break is, how many times I go to the restroom and how long each break takes, and so on. Every time I check my phone he notices and writes it down, then later he'll come to my desk and say "You've wasted 14 minutes today. Why?" We're in the same position. He says he has a running log of how much time I waste and he's going to submit it to our manager. Should I just let him and hope my manager doesn't care, or should I say something to him or my manager now?

Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. — , Jan 29 '19 at 14:16
Wouldn't the guy who is doing this be wasting time by timing you, writing stuff down, and keeping this log? If you have wasted 14 minutes, he probably wasted a few minutes by 'keeping tabs' on you. — Juicetin, Jan 29 '19 at 15:33
Is creating this log part of job description, if not he may be stealing time as well?! — Konrad, Jan 30 '19 at 14:02
Answer might depend on whether you're habitually late, always on your phone, taking long lunch breaks, leaving early, and sitting in the toilet for an hour playing on your cell. — A C, Feb 01 '19 at 01:03
Haha https://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/129365/manager-knows-about-coworkers-very-embarrassing-behavior-should-i-warn-him — AbraCadaver, Feb 18 '19 at 15:22

Old_Lamplighter · Answer 1 · 2019-01-28T18:20:10.730

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First, take a defensive position.

Arrive 5 mins early, leave 5 mins late. (if possible)

Don't go to HR, yet, although they may need to be called in.

Normally, I'd say go to your coworker first, but this person is up to something and you don't want to tip him off. Take this up with your manager ASAP, as this is not about time, this is harassment. Mention coworker's timing your use of the bathroom. This is not normal or professional behavior on his part.

Tell your manager that he's making you feel extremely uncomfortable in telling you how long you were in the bathroom. If your manager suggests you go to HR about this, do it.

This is the very definition of workplace harassment, and should be dealt with by management or HR (start with management).

edited Jan 28 '19 at 18:20

answered Jan 28 '19 at 18:11

Old_Lamplighter

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Might be good to additionally use time-logging software, which is considered to be more reliable than a third party keeping tabs on you, and make sure that you're doing at least a few minutes of overtime after accounting for lunch and toilet breaks. If there are other factors at play, make sure you include them in the big picture, such as an unreliable manager, or a potential backstory that might have made OP resort to such petty accusations. – V N Jan 28 '19 at 19:49
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"and toilet breaks" I've never worked in a company where how long you spend in the bathroom is remotely an issue. – eques Jan 28 '19 at 19:53
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@eques It happens, but usually in an effort to get someone to quit. – Old_Lamplighter Jan 28 '19 at 20:01
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@VN if a company has to resort to that level of micromanaging employees' time, then they have far bigger problems. – Old_Lamplighter Jan 28 '19 at 20:02
@RichardU Totally agreed. Doesn't mean OP can't play their game while buying some time. – V N Jan 28 '19 at 20:04
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@VN I think it's more the coworker's creepy game than the company's – Old_Lamplighter Jan 28 '19 at 20:05
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@RichardU Personally I tend to over-protect myself when such things happen. Even if it's just the coworker's petty game, it will give OP some well-needed confidence. – V N Jan 28 '19 at 20:08
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@eques when I was working at a few manufacturing jobs you were expected to do so during regularly scheduled break times (every 2 hours). I don't think either of them would've jumped on me for an occasional emergency trip, but the distance between working areas the the facilities would make any illness that required frequent visits dangerous. – Dan Is Fiddling By Firelight Jan 28 '19 at 21:20
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@DanNeely I didn't mean to imply that no job had any rules around bathroom times, but more so they aren't generally concerned how often, how long per visit, and generally you have to count them as "non-working" time, etc – eques Jan 28 '19 at 21:21
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@eques the 10m breaks were counted toward hours worked, and if you spent it all on the throne that left nothing for a smoke, snack, etc. Nominal hours were 7-11am with a 10m break at 9am, 30m for lunch, then 11:30-3:30 with a 10m break at 1:30, if we had 2h of mandatory overtime there was third 10m paid break at 3:30 before working till 5:30. IIRC the existence and pay for the 10m break/2hours comes from federal regulation of some sort. – Dan Is Fiddling By Firelight Jan 28 '19 at 22:33
@Jonast92 It is always good to not arrive on the latest possible second and leave on the first second after mandatory. It signals the wrong things and especially for going to work it is good to have a buffer if something happens that messes up your schedule. – Kami Kaze Jan 29 '19 at 10:47
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@eques Depends on the job/role: Software developer? No need to log it. Call centre / helpdesk / pretty much any customer-facing role? They need to be able to monitor that they had sufficient staff on-phones at different time of day, measured against volumes of incoming calls, to determine if they need to increase their headcount, et cetera. – Chronocidal Jan 29 '19 at 10:58
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@gnasher729 it's called "being above reproach". It makes creepy coworker look even more creepy. – Old_Lamplighter Jan 29 '19 at 12:44
@Chronocidal again, I meant specifically details about your bathroom habits. Breaks in general might be regulated for business needs, but a business shouldn't be concerned with whether more of my break time is in the bathroom vs getting a drink vs stretching vs smoking, etc. (within reason) – eques Jan 29 '19 at 14:13
Just yell out, "Would you stop harassing me!" next time he says something so he knows other people heard it. That should stop it. – Tombo Jan 29 '19 at 17:10
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@Tombo and get you written up for causing a disruption, mission accomplished for creepy coworker. – Old_Lamplighter Jan 29 '19 at 17:12
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This is a good answer, but the fool needs to be confronted directly. "Are you my boss? No? Then shut up about it, I never want to hear your comments on the subject again." And then raise the issue to management, because this is harassment, and this guy is confused as to what his role is in the organization. – James Jan 29 '19 at 18:54
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@James no, that's falling into the trap. Creepy coworker will then complain that OP was harassing HIM.\ – Old_Lamplighter Jan 29 '19 at 19:32
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"First, take a defensive position." Nope. First, make sure that what you are doing is NOT against company policy. Do they prohibit personal calls? Do they have a specification about rest room use? (If yes to the second, start looking for a new job anyways. Nobody needs to put with that sort of pettiness.) If you are violating company policy, stop. If not, go ahead and take the issue up with either your boss or HR. – WhatRoughBeast Jan 29 '19 at 20:09
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@WhatRoughBeast that's a distinction without a difference. – Old_Lamplighter Jan 29 '19 at 20:17
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@RichardU - Sorry, but no. The last thing you want to do is go to your boss and say, "I've been violating company policy, and Joe here is threatening to tell you about it. I want you to do something." Put that way, the boss will have little choice but to do something - and you won't like it. – WhatRoughBeast Jan 29 '19 at 20:20
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@WhatRoughBeast if you split hairs any finer, you'd have fission. – Old_Lamplighter Jan 29 '19 at 20:22
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@RichardU - The distinction between potentially being fired and not being fired is a distinction without a difference? – WhatRoughBeast Jan 29 '19 at 20:42
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@WhatRoughBeast I can say with a high degree of certainty that nobody will be fired over using the bathroom 3 times during the day for a total of fifteen minutes. – Old_Lamplighter Jan 29 '19 at 21:18
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Let us continue this discussion in chat. – WhatRoughBeast Jan 29 '19 at 22:44
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Personally, I wouldn't worry about arriving 5 minutes before and leaving 5 minutes late - instead, make sure you have to hand a recent set of success stories to tell. That is, instead of worrying about time (which is what the co-worker wants the conversation to be about), talk about how you brought some work in ahead of schedule, or below budget or cite some recent positive feedback from your customers or whatever else. So long as you have a few such stories immediately out of your mouth when required, then you're more than justifying your value and role in the company. – Ralph Bolton Jan 30 '19 at 17:21
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@RalphBolton the point is not to leave early or arrive late. – Old_Lamplighter Jan 30 '19 at 18:34
This answer assumes that the coworker has authority or power to direct when OP can or cannot come to work. You're basically pleasing a person in hopes he won't "tattle" on you. I think this is bad advice. The OP should simply carry on as he should unless his manager makes it a point. At this point nothing in the OP states his manager is concerned about it. Just let the coworker continue with the task of recording times and hope your manager is smart enough to notice this. – Dan Jan 31 '19 at 15:10
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@Dan No, you're misrepresenting my answer. It says, play defense by making sure you're not arriving late or leaving early, then report the creepy coworker's bizarre behavior. – Old_Lamplighter Jan 31 '19 at 15:14
@eques every customer service job I had was VERY concerned with my bathroom habits – user87779 Jan 31 '19 at 16:16
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@WhatRoughBeast ""First, take a defensive position." Nope. First, make sure that what you are doing is NOT against company policy." That's what take a defensive position means. Make sure you aren't doing anything against policy. – user87779 Jan 31 '19 at 16:20
@RichardU I see. Can you clarify that in your answer? That you mean to make yourself clear of wrongdoing so you can go to management? – Dan Jan 31 '19 at 17:18
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@Dan what's unclear? Show up 5 mins early, leave 5 mins late, report the creep. It's all there – Old_Lamplighter Jan 31 '19 at 17:19
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@RichardU You did not clarify in your answer that OP should be in the clear so the coworker cannot have any dirt on him prior to going to the manager or HR. So he can't say, "... but he is." and the OP cannot go around that. You simply said exactly what you wrote just now without any mention of why. There could be more dirt on him such as what he's looking at on his desktop, etc that could be used so clarifying that point would make everything else clear. – Dan Jan 31 '19 at 17:21
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@Dan If you want to edit, go ahead. I've phrased it as plainly as I know how. – Old_Lamplighter Jan 31 '19 at 17:24

score 240 · Answer 2 · answered Jan 28 '19 at 19:06

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This is a direct attack and somewhat creepy. Talk to your manager about it. Ask your manager if this guy is supposed to be monitoring you in the bathroom etc,. and that it's weird and upsetting that he does and makes no secret of it and threatens you with it.

You can move forwards from your managers reply. Your manager should at least talk to the guy. Best to proactively nip this behaviour in the bud. Don't wait for the weirdo to do whatever he wants with his log and then react.

answered Jan 28 '19 at 19:06

Kilisi

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somewhat creepy?! My first thought (and by no means advice) was to punch the guy in the face. – Cribber Jan 29 '19 at 06:28
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@Cribber yeah, but if the OP was that sort of person, they wouldn't need advice. – Kilisi Jan 29 '19 at 06:44
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@Kilisi - An OP having punched a coworker would need way more advice than an OP with just a nosy coworker. – Pere Jan 29 '19 at 11:38
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Make you wonder how much time that person waste looking at OP and making notes. Does they ever do any job? Sometimes I don't even notice that people sitting next to me went for lunch and are gone because I'm working. – SZCZERZO KŁY Jan 29 '19 at 14:43
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@Pere sure, but it would be totally different advice than what was asked for. – Kilisi Jan 29 '19 at 14:49
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@Pere Hard to be nosy with a broken nose. – James Jan 29 '19 at 18:47
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@Pere There is a very high chance that such a person would not ask for advice in either case, though. – jpmc26 Jan 30 '19 at 00:37
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@berry120 or say...'was that you peeping under the cubicle door you freak?' – Kilisi Feb 01 '19 at 00:59
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@Kilisi Yup. There's many things one could say in public earshot in that scenario that would knock the guy down a peg or too. Not really hard, since his behaviour as described would hardly be considered appropriate by any reasonable person. – berry120 Feb 01 '19 at 08:52

score 90 · Answer 3 · edited Jan 29 '19 at 09:45

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I like Richard U's answer, but another tactic you might consider is to say,

Let's go to our manager's office together to discuss this with him/her right now.

Do so in a calm, helpful tone. I think you will learn how serious they are about reporting you. If they are serious and you go right then, I think (hope?) it will be clear to your manager how weird, unsettling, and inappropriate this behavior is. I think it will also be clear how much time your co-worker is wasting monitoring your wasted time (the irony, no?). You will also be there to defend yourself or correct any misconceptions by your boss. After that, I would be sure to follow up with your boss and let them know it's your intent to be a productive employee and if he/she has any concerns about your productivity or work ethic, to please let you know immediately so you can discuss. Also let them know how this whole thing has made you feel (worried, creeped out, etc.) and then let them take it from there.

If they aren't serious (they don't want to go discuss this with your boss), you go discuss the entire thing with your boss and let them handle it.

edited Jan 29 '19 at 09:45

V2Blast

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answered Jan 28 '19 at 20:41

JeffC

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At first I liked this, but the more I think about it the worse it is. What if they say "Yes absolutely let's go right now", you open the conversation (to your boss) "Hey boss, is keeping tabs on when I come/go/use bathroom/etc. Hey , how much time today?" and he just says "What are you talking about? Why did you bring me in here again?". Then you look stupid/weird. Talk to boss in advance is definitely the better move here... – C Bauer Jan 28 '19 at 21:28
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@CBauer I would just follow them into the bosses office (if they go) and let them do most of the talking other than to correct anything. Problem solved. – JeffC Jan 28 '19 at 22:02
Still leaves you open to the coworker, who has already proven untrustworthy, to make you look stupid by opening the convo with "So , what do you want to talk to boss and I about?" – C Bauer Jan 28 '19 at 22:11
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@CBauer You turn to your boss and say, " expressed some concerns about... turns to coworker... what did you call it... time theft?... on my part. I suggested that we come talk with you immediately about it so we can clear up his concerns." Then you gesture to your coworker to take it from there. If they still won't follow through, you set a time to discuss this with your boss 1:1 and explain what they stated they were doing and (better) explain why you did what you did by bringing them into the boss' office immediately and how this whole thing has made you feel. – JeffC Jan 28 '19 at 22:24
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Please refer to my original comment... – C Bauer Jan 28 '19 at 22:28
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I don't see how going into your bosses' office cold and talking about this is any less weird than prompting the coworker to start the conversation, even if they feign ignorance once you get in there. Either way your boss is likely going to have a hard time initially processing either conversation... because it IS stupid/weird. – JeffC Jan 28 '19 at 22:50
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Coworker is keeping written records at his desk. That's evidence. If you tip your hand by inviting him to the boss's office, and he decides to shut up instead of put up, then he'll follow you only as far as the shredder. – Harper - Reinstate Monica Jan 28 '19 at 23:16
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This is the correct answer, with the addition that you should say, "Bring your evidence, and we'll go and talk to the boss together" – SiHa Jan 29 '19 at 08:27
@Harper and you'd show that...how - by going over their belongings? It's true that stuff at work are not supposed to be entirely personal but I don't think I've ever seen anybody who doesn't consider their desk and stuff on it like it belongs to them. If I were to come to your home and go through your desk you would likely object, too. Not to mention that the records could be in a drawer among other written materials or even under a lock or whatever else. – VLAZ Jan 29 '19 at 10:12
This is by no means a good idea. In this scenarios there are too many uncertanties. (How does the boss react, how does the colleague react, can you present evidence...) – Kami Kaze Jan 29 '19 at 12:19
Hmm. Maybe this would call their bluff, but if they are foolish enough to accept, you'll both look bad. No manager wants sudden drama or squabbling in their office. It risks looking like you're using the manager's time to make an ugly scene, escalate a conflict and score points. Proving that "He started it!" won't make you look less childish... – user56reinstatemonica8 Jan 29 '19 at 12:37
@Harper How does this "tip my hand"? The coworker has already threatened to report OP to the manager and probably more than once. I don't see this type of person as one who goes to this much effort to spy on you and document your every activity (for likely days? weeks?) and then back down when you say, "Yes, let's go talk to the boss." I think you would have a hard time keeping up with them as they run to the boss' office, notes in hand... – JeffC Jan 29 '19 at 14:29
@KamiKaze there are too many uncertanties. (How does the boss react, how does the colleague react, can you present evidence...). None of which is any different if you walk into your boss' office cold and explain all of this. I didn't say this approach was better than RichardU's approach, just to consider it as an alternative approach. – JeffC Jan 29 '19 at 14:32
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@JeffC Oh a lot of the uncertanties vanish in a preliminary talk. You can explain yourself to the boss in a calm atmosphere and he is able to process this and think it through on how to handle this. This aproach will confront him unprepared and will let him see you more as an agressor as it needs to be. Also will not be able to calmly disuss this and present the problem in detail, but will you have trying to make the colleague look as bad as possible to win the boss over. Neither you or the boss will be able to handle this as good as it was planned, because of the urgency. – Kami Kaze Jan 29 '19 at 14:52
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A lawyer once said "Never ask the witness a question you don't know the answer to." – AndFisher Jan 29 '19 at 14:55
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@vlaz you wouldn't go through their belongings, HR or possibly the boss would, in order to fact-find an otherwise he-said-she-said. You may understand whose property your cubicle is, it's not your property. It's your work product, which is definitely their property, except for your own "cubicle flair". Notes on your coworker's activities, definitely work product and they have right to rifle through your stuff and take it. Read up on the law in this area. – Harper - Reinstate Monica Jan 29 '19 at 15:49
@JeffC such people tend to be delusional. As long as they are in control, they continue to operate in fantasy. But when you pull the train off their fantasy track, it snaps them out of it, they lose control of the game and start hating it. And that sobers them up quick. Then the game becomes "how can I defeat you?" – Harper - Reinstate Monica Jan 29 '19 at 15:52

score 31 · Answer 4 · answered Jan 28 '19 at 22:49

Whistleblowing is only whistleblowing if you actually whistleblow.

Threatening to whistleblow is not whistleblowing at all. It is threatening.

The only allowable case is "I will whistleblow you for X unless you stop doing X".

For any other case of "I will whistleblow you for X unless you Y", that is extortion and that is a serious crime in many jurisdictions. For instance, "I will whistleblow you for X unless you give me $100", that is plain extortion.

Now, in this case, you haven't clearly stated what exactly he wants from you. Has he already made a quid pro quo demand like a favor, lunch, transfer of workload, money, etc.? Or is that the next shoe to drop?

He's already placed his head in a noose. It's normal for two different people to recall conversations differently. If you inferred from his conversation a quid pro quo, all the evidence weighs against him. His denial is not credible, and a search of his desk will reveal copious notes as to your activities, proving your claim.

The point is, this is a very petty and foolish man. Very sad for him.

The kindest thng might seem to be to ignore it. But to protect yourself, this does seem like a "race to HR" situation. The first one there gets initiative: the second will be on their heels in defensive mode. I would think about what he has really been asking for, then go to HR and tell them what he's been up to.

If the coworker was doing this in exchange for a favor I would say this is absolutely on point. I didn't hear a demand, the sense I got was more harassing to harass. Which is still a serious problem. — kleineg, Feb 04 '19 at 23:22
It might well be that this is just an obsessive person. There are many mental conditions that could trigger this behavior. Criminalizing it would not be my first reaction. Also, going to the local manager first seems appropriate. If that doesn't help, I'd certainly talk to HR and make sure that they write it down in your file (I guess you cannot make them to write it down in the co-workers file, after all). — Maarten Bodewes, Feb 19 '19 at 01:39

score 18 · Answer 5 · answered Jan 28 '19 at 18:37

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The answer here is similar to answers on all other questions about coworkers and performance, or coworkers and "tattling:"

Be accountable for your own work/performance/timeliness and don't worry about others, or what they think of you.

Unless this coworker is your boss (he isn't, according to your post) it doesn't really matter what he thinks. As long as you and your boss are on the same page about your work, it doesn't really matter what he thinks. If you have good accountability with your boss and are on the same page with them about your work and your performance, then don't worry about this coworker - (say it with me this time) it doesn't really matter what he thinks. If you're not sure of your standing with your boss, well then - you should be taking care of that regardless of a tattling coworker.

If your coworker continues to bug you about these things, take your own favorite ignore/dismiss approach (smile and nod then continue with your work. Or say "that's nice" and go on with your day). Don't engage, dispute, or argue with the coworker - doing so just gives fuel to their fire. You're not accountable to them, so there's no reason to give them implicit accountability over you by way of trying to prove or disprove their opinions.

answered Jan 28 '19 at 18:37

dwizum

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Maybe -- I've been sandbagged by coworkers who smile all the time and then send disparaging comments to my supervisor for use during my performance review. Note: NOT at my current company! – Carl Witthoft Jan 28 '19 at 20:21
I'm sure it happens. That's why maintaining a good relationship with your supervisor and ensuring that the two of you are on the same page is the important part of my answer. Both good and bad feedback will make it to your boss on a regular basis. If you two are on the same page, you've got the best chance of a good outcome. In other words, worry about maintaining that relationship, instead of worrying about dealing with the source(s) of the feedback, good or bad. – dwizum Jan 28 '19 at 20:25
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Your advice seems to be 'do nothing', which... I don't think is a good idea. OP should talk to his manager about this. – dwjohnston Jan 29 '19 at 02:09
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I could get behind this answer if the logging weren't so extreme. Best to address harassment like this before it blows up for everyone. – WetlabStudent Jan 29 '19 at 05:24
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Yeah, I could get behind this answer to a point, but if the co-worker is logging bathroom use, that's so egregious that it really can't be ignored for long. – Zach Lipton Jan 29 '19 at 07:10
@dwjohnston My advice isn't "do nothing," it's "look at the context, then do the right thing to focus on what matters." – dwizum Jan 29 '19 at 17:04
@ZachLipton - I get that. But, as adults, we have a choice to separate things that are annoying/weird from things that actually impact something important. I used to get very fired up about every little workplace conflict. Sooner or later, after lots of wasted energy, I've tried to adjust my approach. I'm sure not everyone will agree, but that's the beauty of the Q&A format on here. – dwizum Jan 29 '19 at 17:11
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Honestly this should be the answer. And anyone who harassed other employees like that should face the hot seat rather than the OP. But life does not always work that way. I would 100% do nothing if it was my current boss... every time I text that "I'm running a little behind" he tells me not to work late to make it up because family first. But I had a former boss that literally kept track of my bathroom breaks, even though I was well over 40 hours a week. Sometimes 60. I left there, I love it here, never going back. I would not trust a boss who let this sway them. – kleineg Feb 04 '19 at 23:28

sf02 · Answer 6 · 2019-01-28T17:40:07.637

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There is nothing for you to tell your manager if you have been doing your work. Let your colleague submit his notes to your manager. Hopefully your manager will then have the sense to ask your colleague why he is wasting time spying on you instead of doing his assigned tasks.

edited Jan 28 '19 at 17:40

answered Jan 28 '19 at 17:32

sf02

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(+1) If I were the manager, I certainly would have words about the co-worker for his time wasting and his attitude, and remind him that 1) we are a team and 2) I get to decide who is working satisfactorily. I would also make an entry in his HR file. – Mawg says reinstate Monica Jan 29 '19 at 08:22
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This is risky. People have a tendency to believe the first story they hear. – Tim B Jan 29 '19 at 12:07
I'd at least attempt to bring it up with the manager, as some managers are really bad at handling this kind of issue. – user45266 Jan 30 '19 at 05:24
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I disagree, quite some people won't be able to stand the fact that someone is looking after us the whole day or it will disturb them and make them unable to focus on their work properly. – Walfrat Jan 30 '19 at 10:23
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I've had this situation before. The right move is to make sure you get your work done and call his bluff. I would sleep in my car during lunch at times, but I got my work done. Two of my coworkers ran a campaign against me to my manager who wasn't in office. Over time their whining backfired and my work got me a promotion and 20k raise. No one reasonable cares about the specifics of time, they care about the outcomes. – dustinevan Jan 31 '19 at 20:47

score 15 · Answer 7 · answered Jan 29 '19 at 01:59

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To all of the other answers, I will supply this tidbit:

Have your resume ready. While a well-run company would at the very least respond to your cow-orker's report with a directive to focus on his own assigned tasks (if not disciplining him outright), there is always the chance that it will make trouble for you.

That would be a sign that you don't want to work there, so even if you are not terminated, if there is even a hint of taking action against you, bail.

answered Jan 29 '19 at 01:59

EvilSnack

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Are you suggesting this in addition to the other answers? Answers should generally stand alone, so you might want to summarize the relevant advice from those other answers if so. (The wording "to all of the other answers" makes this sound intended as a comment on those answers, but it seems like a totally separate suggestion.) – V2Blast Jan 29 '19 at 05:43
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@V2Blast The answers are all right here on this same page, so recreating them in this particular answer seems at best a waste of time – Lightness Races in Orbit Jan 29 '19 at 11:40
@LightnessRacesinOrbit: The issue is that the users might delete their answers later, or EvilSnack might only intend to concur with some of the suggestions, etc. Just a one-line summary or something might clarify which ones he means. (If he's not intending to concur with some/all of them, just adding his own answer, that introductory line is unnecessary.) – V2Blast Jan 29 '19 at 19:45
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Users might delete their answers, but I really don't see that being terribly likely for this question. – EvilSnack Jan 30 '19 at 01:28
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Also document that this is happening (date, summary of threats) in your personal records, and be mentally prepared if something does happen. Know how you'll respond in X situation so that if happens, emotions won't be making the decision. – David Ehrmann Feb 03 '19 at 07:08

score 11 · Answer 8 · answered Jan 29 '19 at 14:26

It's clearly harassment. He's not your manager. Even if he was (and it was within his right to monitor your work performance) it would still be extremely poor behavior.

Absolutely do not negotiate with this person or engage in pie-throwing (keeping counter-tabs, etc).

If it is legal where you are, use your phone to record audio of these conversations. Talk to your manager. If they don't believe you, let them listen to one of the clips. If they still choose to side with this person (perhaps they already have a strong personal relationship) or just remain passive (many managers are afraid of conflict), look for another job.

(Also: don't steal his notebook (or similar), as this could land you in trouble.)

In this case it's in their self-interest, in response to obvious harassment. If there is anything bullies want (despite their threats to bring this up with management), it is never to go on record. But yes, recording coworkers out of the blue would be inappropriate. — Joe Terror, Jan 31 '19 at 08:09

score 8 · Answer 9 · answered Jan 29 '19 at 04:51

I think this behavior clearly falls into the category of "harassment". You don't have to say a great deal, but I would give your supervisor a heads up. In the years that I have managed people I have never seen behavior like this that doesn't escalate, or at the very least, continue far past most people's ability to tolerate it. As far as when you come and go, most professional work environments aren't so rigid that you can't be flexible here and there as long as you are putting in the time expected. Unless you are punching a clock I can't see concern over a 15 minute longer lunch offset with 15 minutes at the beginning or end of your day. That said, if you are being more lax than you should be, it is still harassment and the issue is still between you and your supervisor.

Good point; any actual issue with working hours should be dealt with separately between employee and manager, not in a threatening manner with random colleague. — Joe Terror, Jan 31 '19 at 08:03

score 4 · Answer 10 · answered Jan 31 '19 at 20:04

You do nothing.

If he asks you questions that are inappropriate, tell him you're not going to answer his questions.

Him: "You've wasted 14 minutes today. Why?"

You: "That's not something I'd discuss with anyone but our boss Beth."

If he makes threats to do stupid things that are not actually going to harm anyone, just acknowledge you heard him.

Him: "I'm keeping a log of how much time you waste and I'm going to submit it to our manager."

You: "OK."

There is no benefit in you going to your boss about this, and no benefit in talking to him about it.

Let fools reap their folly.

score 2 · Answer 11 · answered Jan 29 '19 at 06:10

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I was in a similar situation except I was the tattler. Half my group showed up 4 hrs late, left an hour early and slept most of the rest of the time (6 people on night shift). Telling my boss did nothing. Telling on my boss to HR did nothing. So I called a work stoppage with the half of the group that was working. The boss asked them why they hadn't reported the problem to him then fired me and I got blacklisted from ever working in the city's high tech again. (Another company informed me of this.) I'm a rat, paid a high price and feel I did the right thing anyway. The omerta good ol boys club rules.

answered Jan 29 '19 at 06:10

ralfcis

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Why would you "call a work stoppage"? Are you sure that wasn't the reason you were fired, and not just for telling your boss & HR that people weren't working? – Xen2050 Jan 29 '19 at 07:28
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@xen2050 There's this omerta attitude that it's every employee's duty to try and skim as much as they can off their employer, just like taxes. But when they do that, they're also ripping off their fellow employees and causing moral problems in the group. How is their thievery of 10's of thousands in salary per year their business and not as bad as stealing tools or stationary? I'm loyal to the company that employs me, not to a pack of thieves and their enablers. The work stoppage was supposed to show them and management what it's like to work with them every day. – ralfcis Jan 29 '19 at 13:37
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It seems you found the major hole in that approach. The message you wanted to send was "We're each doing the work of two people." The message you successfully sent was "We only need half as many employees on this team - oh, and half of them just refused to work" – timbstoke Jan 29 '19 at 15:34
Isn't the usual approach to consider if the workers are productive "enough"? If they can be immensely productive while sleeping half the time, that may be good enough. If they don't get any work done though, that is measurable and discussable. – Thorbjørn Ravn Andersen Jan 29 '19 at 15:52
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After step 1 & 2 (Telling my boss did nothing. Telling on my boss to HR did nothing) step 3-alternative could have been: "get a new job" rather than step 4. Of course we have the benefit of hindsight that the step 3 here "called a work stoppage" did not succeed and hurt OP. I hope you do find a new good position, yet sometimes the best, after tying to improve things once/twice, is to accept that some companies will not improve with you. – chux - Reinstate Monica Jan 29 '19 at 17:07
Wow I can't believe what I'm reading. The message is not about me and what I should've done, the message is about the state of morality that backs the good ol boys network. I shouldn't have had to do anything. – ralfcis Jan 29 '19 at 17:43
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You would have been better off quitting. You obviously didn't belong working there, and you obviously weren't happy working there. You should have restricted your efforts at correcting the situation to usual channels. And before you complain, "But the usual channels failed!" let me point out that that response would be missing the point. You can't be attacked for using the usual channels. You go elsewhere and get productive in a better company. A company that lets half the staff loaf isn't long for this world anyway; that's no reason to tie it around your neck and earn a blacklist. – Wildcard Jan 29 '19 at 20:29
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@wildcard Your assumptions based on total ignorance have lead you to the wrong conclusions. Just keep supporting the snakes, most people do. I'm with the rats. Loyalty to the truth and loyalty to people is a conflict of interest. – ralfcis Jan 29 '19 at 23:31
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Not sure how this actually addresses the problem. – Jon P Jan 30 '19 at 00:31
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@jonp You're right, I've wandered way off topic. What the victim should do is admit his loafing, say he'll stop, stop for a while and continue anyway so his tattler looks like a harasser. My boss told me it doesn't matter how well you perform at your job, it only matters whether you get along with others which includes the effort impaired and integrity challenged. Welcome to adult daycare. – ralfcis Jan 30 '19 at 01:44
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-1 because this is not an answer to the question and your anecdote does not even seem nontrivally related to OP's situation. – R.. GitHub STOP HELPING ICE Jan 31 '19 at 15:00
Ok I'll answer the question even though I don't want to help the OP out. From my opposite perspective I recognize bro-code rules and squealing is verboten, even if you squeal on a squealer and even if the company finds you valuable enough to let you loaf. But bro-code likes when you man up and squeal on yourself pre-emptively. Don't say why, and when the squealer plays his hand, you've already laid your tripwire and boom goes your tattler. Mission accomplished, you're free to loaf. – ralfcis Jan 31 '19 at 16:50
I don't want to beat a dead horse but I've learned such an important life lesson last night about this subject, I have to share it. Some guy wrote some creepy locker room talk on my physics thread that I didn't want to be associated with. So I pressed the report button and was almost banned for creating work for the moderator. Then it hit me, most people succeed by not wasting time on doing what's right but by taking the path of least resistance. Don't ever stand in that path. People who do will be swept away. Don't ever press the repot button, it's a trap. – ralfcis Feb 10 '19 at 15:52

score 1 · Answer 12 · edited Jan 28 '19 at 19:24

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I'm assuming you've already spoken to your coworker about why he's acting that way and tried to resolve the situation without escalating it up to your manager. Assuming that I would get ahead of this since you don't know how the employee is going to approach the manager, what kind of spin they're going to put on it or how much they will exaggerate things (eg: "15 minutes" may become "almost an hour"). How your manager takes it largely depends on these details plus their relationship with that employee (is that employee a friend or a nuisance to them).

Talk to your manager privately either through email or face to face and put your own spin on it depending on what you think would go over better.

Hey there are some rumors going around that I'm unproductive. Are you happy with my work so far?

This will help make your coworker's tattling seem like he's just spreading rumors and if there are legitimate concerns about your productivity it gives your boss a chance to help you address them and shows that you're willing to improve.

The other option is to say something like

Hey [boss], [coworker] has been trying to micromanage me instead of doing his work. I've tried talking to him but he's persistent. This is starting to affect my productivity. What do you think I should do?

This way paints your coworker as the problem. He is not doing his job and is actively harming your productivity with his antics.

edited Jan 28 '19 at 19:24

Kat

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answered Jan 28 '19 at 17:56

Working Title

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Trying to make it sound like rumors and offering up one's un-productivity as potentially a real issue is pretty weird and not going to get OP anywhere more positive. Much better to directly bring up that the coworker is timing bathroom breaks and it's harassment, rather than make it about his work vs. your work (especially if his work is fine or better, which we don't know). The boss is responsible for making sure both OP and the weirdo are productive, not OP -- OP should bring up the actual problem that is within his purview to bring up. – Matthew Read Jan 28 '19 at 20:05
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A really good way to make your manager thing you are widely thought of as a layabout is to say "there are some rumours". This sounds like the entire office thinks it about you. Awful phrasing. A co-worker harassing and threatening you is the issue. Focus on that. – Oli Jan 29 '19 at 16:04
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This is terrible advice. The best way to start a rumor is to say "There are rumors about". Also, you make someone second guess their evaluation of your image (if the consensus is different than what they see, they will start looking for reasons to agree with the consensus). – RaidenF Jan 30 '19 at 14:09
I massively disagree with a guilty remark like saying "There are rumours about me." This coworker is timing his bathroom breaks. You don't react to that by accepting blame like a guilty toddler. You strike back, hard, fast, and without prejudice. It's harassment and it needs to be nipped in the bud, not treated softly. – The Anathema Jan 31 '19 at 22:44
It is not always good to "strike back hard". It may look like you feel like you need to defend yourself which you can be rather sure that some are gonna interpret as weakness that they can exploit. – mathreadler Feb 02 '19 at 12:06
I agree with the sentiment, but feel that the implementation is in-ideal. I would request a meeting and straight up say that the OP's coworker is timing their bathroom breaks and harassing them. I would say something to the effect of "please let me know if you have any concerns about my time management" and would probably follow up with the fact that this harassment is stressing the OP out and negatively influencing their work environment. Also, if the boss is inclined to not stop the coworker or takes anything they say seriously, it is time to leave. – kleineg Feb 04 '19 at 23:38

score 1 · Answer 13 · answered Jan 31 '19 at 12:13

Ok, first of all, that guy is extremely creepy. Yes, this has been said before, but this is harassment, since monitoring how you use your time or your performance isn't his responsibility.

Apart from all the great advice I have seen here, you should probably try to understand the reason behind his obsession with you. There might even be a racial/xenophobic/sexist/homophobic reason behind it (I have no data about you, I don't know if any of those apply), and that would be way worse. I mean, if he is calling you out for 14 minutes, there must be something else going on... I would say "wasting" that much time is far below average (between coffee and bathroom breaks, stretching legs, reading something on the internet or whatever)...

Yes, I believe you should go to your manager (you feel harassed and controlled by a coworker, that's certain to impact your work). But maybe you should also talk to your coworker the next time he talks to you like this. He might understand that he's losing time as well and that his behaviour isn't acceptable.

score 1 · Answer 14 · answered Jan 31 '19 at 18:18

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Just start taking the notes how much time he wastes recording your time.

answered Jan 31 '19 at 18:18

Alexan

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Why? What does this gain you? What does this add beyond the existing answers? – Matthew Read Feb 04 '19 at 20:23
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I agree to some extent. It has to waste a lot of time and energy to track your coworker when that isn't your job. – David Kamer Feb 04 '19 at 23:31

score 0 · Answer 15 · answered Jan 29 '19 at 11:47

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Your colleague is on thin ice. Why not make some waves.

Steal the notebook where he notes these things down. Go to HR. Tell them

"I found this notebook of mr colleague and I noticed, that these are the times I go to the toilet, when I come and when I leave. This is a gross violation of my privacy and quite frankly, quite creepy and borderline malicious. This is seriously not OK with me."

It is true, HR is not your friend - but they are not his friend either.

Or you could bluff it. Tell him that you found his notebook yesterday, took copies and one more snide comment from his part and you take it to HR. I'd not favor that solution though, it requires a head-on confrontation and he seems willing to risk those, given his behaviour.

You could also involve others, start spreading the word to your other colleagues.

Have you noticed that mr. X keeps a record of when we all go to the toilet and for how long? That is so creepy. I wish someone would do something.

Fight your enemy - where he is not. Make successful accusations about his creepy character, and his notetaking habit will only discredit himself - not just now but in the future.

answered Jan 29 '19 at 11:47

Stian

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Why lie and open yourself up to accusations of deception? No need to say you "found" it. Just go in and say that he's been recording your bathroom breaks and threatening you with reporting them and either take the notebook as evidence or take photos of the notebook pages. Also say you have no idea if the information recorded is accurate or not. – Tim B Jan 29 '19 at 12:11
@TimB Well, I'd say given the circumstances that deception is a legitimate way of reacting - but I do say the same as you - the colleague seems to be of the sort that could handle a head on challenge like that - so I don't recommend it in this situation. – Stian Jan 29 '19 at 12:35
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Why lie? What is the reason to do it? How does it help you? What possible benefit does it give you to say "I happened to notice" rather than "x threatened me with"? – Tim B Jan 29 '19 at 13:03
In the hypothetical case: It isn't lying. He wanted to find it, and found it. The sentence "I found..." isn't even close to a lie. It underplays the motivation for "finding" it. Because that is not where you want the conversation to go, you want it to be regarding what is in the notebook. That a colleague threatens you is a "he-said-she-said" - which happens all the time and rarely gets any traction anywhere (unless it is a #metoo thing, those have had scrutiny increased lately...). that an emp. is proven to take notes the comings and goings of everyone - that is an actual problem. – Stian Jan 29 '19 at 13:46
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"Finding" something means you didn't know it was there until you looked. Otherwise it's just "getting" something. He knows what is there so claiming to "find" it is a lie and opens you up to accusations of deception... and to asking why you're looking through a colleagues private notes. – Tim B Jan 29 '19 at 14:06
@TimB We are clearly having a different understanding of the verb "to find". I usually try to avoid discussing semantics, and I will do so now as well. – Stian Jan 29 '19 at 14:32
Don't. Instead mention that you been told it is there and they may want to have a look in his drawer. – Thorbjørn Ravn Andersen Jan 29 '19 at 15:49
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@StianYttervik and there, you have the colleague ask you clearly in front of the boss "why were you going through my personal stuff?". If one of my employee would come to me with that, I would have a long discussion about nosiness BEFORE I even get to the other team member and go "don't record other people's time like that". You will give your manager ammunition to consider both you and the coworker as creepy (one for taking notes of bathroom breaks, and one for going through other people's stuff). I don't see this putting you in a positive light – Patrice Jan 29 '19 at 17:40
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Stealing, lying, and passive-aggressive behavior are not going to solve anything. – Paul Jan 29 '19 at 20:54
@paul it may be the first two, but it isn't passive-aggressive... – Stian Jan 30 '19 at 06:43

score -1 · Answer 16 · answered Jan 29 '19 at 00:14

I think the real issue is "Whose time are you wasting?" If you "waste" 14 minutes a day by checking your phone, stretching your legs, chatting at the water cooler, etc. Are you charging this time to the company, or is it your own time. In other words, you could be "at work" for 10 hours, but only "work" for 8 hours, and get paid for 8 hours. Thus you are "wasting" 2 hours of your own time, and his argument has no basis.

Where I work, we have an unpaid lunch. I can take 10 minutes, or 2 hours for lunch. I cannot get paid for that time, so it doesn't matter how long I am gone.

Get a pair of over the ear headphones and listen to white noise. That way, you won't hear him.

Are you salary or hourly? If you are salary, you are expected to get your work done on time. If you are hourly, do you get paid in increments of 6 minutes? 15? I am paid in 6 minute intervals. So, my start time and end time can vary by as much as 3 minutes without impact. Any single event less than 6 minutes is insignificant. Going to the bathroom is a normal human function and does not require a time exemption.

Sorry for downvoting, but this answer contains several problematic examples. For instance stretching ones legs is considered a basic privilige in most countries that should not need to be corrected for. Also, the implied logic 'I get paid per X time so any deviation less than X/2 is irrelevant' would not apply to most people ;-) -- That being said, it does make sense to say that 'wasting time' should be a non-issue as soon as you are making even more overtime. — Dennis Jaheruddin, Jan 29 '19 at 11:11
I am paid yearly, for my full work over the 365 days. So any single event less than..... 6 months, is insignificant? Can you go have that chat with my boss? Cause I surely won't.... — Patrice, Jan 29 '19 at 17:34
BTW: Don't be sorry for down voting, if it isn't value added to the question. I appreciate your explanation. — Scottie H, Feb 04 '19 at 01:13

score -1 · Answer 17 · answered Jan 29 '19 at 15:46

I like a lot of advice here but most of them centers around the idea of paying back the coworker or making the coworker notice how you're arriving earlier or leaving later. I think these advice are counterproductive especially since your manager has not spoken to you regarding this matter.

I would just ignore it and if your manager comes to you, explain the coworker is noting times you go to the bathroom and for how long. You feel threatened by this and ask for clarification on why he's recording these times.

score -1 · Answer 18 · answered Feb 01 '19 at 13:40

-1

Ask him if it is his job to supervise you. If he says no (which he should, since you are in same position, no?), then you could say "well, maybe you should be focusing on doing your job instead of doing stuff you are not hired to do".

answered Feb 01 '19 at 13:40

mathreadler

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Coworker keeps threatening to tattle on me for "time theft"

18 Answers18

Your colleague is on thin ice. Why not make some waves.

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