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In October, I had an interview for a data scientist position in France at a large company, where there was exactly one physical interview with the manager and another data scientist. It was a pretty basic interview-with no technical questions asked except going over my CV. The data scientist really liked my profile and told me that I'd be contacted in a few days. When I wasn't, I contacted the inhouse recruiter to which he emailed me that I wasn't selected.

Now in December, the same recruiter called me to tell me that they had an alternate offer for me. I was of course excited to hear more, but after that the several times I contacted the recruiter to discuss it, he postponed it to another date but never called me at the end. E.g. 5 days ago he said he was moving and would call me today, only not to call me.

I've got another offer from a startup, which I don't like much. But I let them (the recruiter, and the manager at this large company who interviewed me) know of the alternate offer, and also told them that if they no longer had the offer, they should tell me that. Still the recruiter is acting not serious at all, and it's getting quite frustrating. I wonder if I'm being played?

I'd also appreciate if you could let me know what my next steps would be under this circumstances.

Mathmath
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    are you presently employed? – Old_Lamplighter Jan 14 '19 at 19:03
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    @RichardU No and they knew my situation while interviewing, still they're acting pretty reluctant. I even told them to tell me if they don't have the position, but they didn't-hence my frustration! – Mathmath Jan 14 '19 at 19:10
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    then, take the offer on the table, then worry about moving up. – Old_Lamplighter Jan 14 '19 at 19:23
  • First lesson to learn in professional software development: Don't trust 3rd party recruiters. They don't understand the industry, and they often make fake job offers to collect potential candidates for future jobs. They are OK with setting you up with the wrong job just to get their commission. This happened to me personally once and I was super-embarrassed in the interview while the recruiter assured me it's a fit. They will make you feel super important and great to hook you up, but don't fall for it. They keep impressing me day by day that I keep losing respect for them. – The Quantum Physicist Jan 15 '19 at 13:19
  • @TheQuantumPhysicist Recuriters are like any other profession. There are good ones and there are bad ones. After a few years experience it becomes easier to weed out the bad ones pretty quickly. – Laconic Droid Jan 15 '19 at 13:35
  • @LaconicDroid Maybe. In my short few years of experience with them, I found them to be hugely misleading and care more about their commission than putting the right person in the right position. I dealt with 10 at least. So, hopefully someone better will show up and change my mind. – The Quantum Physicist Jan 15 '19 at 13:37
  • @TheQuantumPhysicist: but in this case, somewhat strangely, the recruiter is inhouse. This makes me wonder even more why I'm being played or setup or taken lightly? – Mathmath Jan 15 '19 at 14:16
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    @Mathmath Maybe it's just incompetence. – The Quantum Physicist Jan 15 '19 at 14:21
  • @TheQuantumPhysicist Yes, but he's so much incompetant that he forgets to contact me upon the promise that he'd? I mean once is okay, but three times? – Mathmath Jan 15 '19 at 14:23
  • @Mathmath , it's just basic incompetence, a non-issue. (Nobody is trying to "trick" you or anything else.) Forget about it. Take the other job. – Fattie Jan 15 '19 at 14:40
  • "No and they knew my situation while interviewing, still they're acting pretty reluctant. I even told them to tell me if they don't have the position, but they didn't-hence my frustration!" One thing to be aware of, jobs are like mating. In that if you "need' it you'll never get it. The slightest hint of desperation - and you're done, finished. (Note - in no other way are jobs like sex; this is the only analogy :O ) – Fattie Jan 15 '19 at 14:42
  • @Fattie yeah I get it, except in my case, it was the recruiter who contacted me with the offer, not the other way around. – Mathmath Jan 15 '19 at 14:44
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    @Mathmath - recruiters are hopeless, just forget about it. It means nothing. It's totally OK to phone and email him or her over and over, to see what's going on, so do that. But just "expect" that they will never answer you, or, suddenly hire you and not even realize how shoddy they were, etc. The problem here is you are one of our math-data brothers; hence you live in a rational, systematic world. You are not cycnical, wordly and practical. If you were a programmer you wouldn't even mention all this. You'd just say "oh another useless recruiter at some crap company" :) :) You know? – Fattie Jan 15 '19 at 14:48
  • @Fattie thank you so much for your encouraging words. I called him today 10 minutes ago and he told me "I'll call you either today after 17h30 or tomorrow", and then I asked "is it for sure", and he said "Yes, for sure". I really hope this time his shoddiness meter doesn't give a worse reading than it did before :) – Mathmath Jan 15 '19 at 14:54
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    Good luck, again, it's totally OK TO JUST CALL OVER AND OVER - it's only a recruiter. – Fattie Jan 15 '19 at 14:57
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    "either today after 17h30 or tomorrow" what a ridiculous statement! Heh! good luck – Fattie Jan 15 '19 at 14:59
  • @Fattie I'm not going to give him an easy break! I'll call him more than his family does-the only fear here is-he's an inhouse recruiter, so the manager and he know each other. – Mathmath Jan 15 '19 at 15:04
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    nah, it's no problem. managers think recruiters are hopeless :) :) – Fattie Jan 15 '19 at 15:10

4 Answers4

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Since you are unemployed, take the offer on the table. A hard offer is better than a wishy-washy maybe. You are obviously not a priority to them.

You can worry about moving up once you have a job, but right now, having employment is better than a definite possibility of a firm maybe.

Old_Lamplighter
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    I guess it also depends on whether they already have a job or not. – thursdaysgeek Jan 14 '19 at 18:57
  • @thursdaysgeek Good point. The job I intially interviewed for was published on a job platform. Are you talking about the existence of that, or the alternate one that the recruiter said he had for me? – Mathmath Jan 14 '19 at 19:01
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    @Mathmath Are you currently working? If so, is the job you have right now better or worse than the job offer you have in hand? I see on your comment that you are not employed. In which case, Richard's answer can stand as is. – thursdaysgeek Jan 14 '19 at 19:11
  • @thursdaysgeek No I'm not, have been looking for job for three months now. They knew my situation while interviewing, still they're acting pretty reluctant! I even told them to tell me if they don't have the position, but they didn't-hence my frustration! – Mathmath Jan 14 '19 at 19:12
  • @thursdaysgeek, then I've a follow up question I'd like to ask-it's more of a moral question than anything. Say I take the other offer that I don't like, and I keep looking for other jobs, and when I get one, I leave the job at the startup. Sure it seems legally fine, but I've moral concern there-the startup probably wouldn't hire me if I tell them that they're just a second choice and I'm looking for another job. – Mathmath Jan 15 '19 at 12:57
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    Yes, @Mathmath, but a business would also not tell you if they are about to fire you in a month. Don’t confuse the company‘s problems (e.g. bus factor) with yours. – Roman Jan 15 '19 at 13:21
  • @Roman so is it okay to take up a job offer that's my second choice and in the meantime, look for another? Sorry if I didn't quite get the message :) Thanks again! – Mathmath Jan 15 '19 at 14:11
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    You could be seen as a job hopper if you switch jobs within a few months all the time, but once probably wouldn't reflect that poorly, especially if you stay at your next job for a few years without issue. – IllusiveBrian Jan 15 '19 at 14:13
  • The job hopper part can be avoided by not mentioning the short term jobs at all in my CV, as in France, they don't do a check unlike in the US. – Mathmath Jan 15 '19 at 14:17
  • @Mathmath Of course. What is more: there is also a chance that you will start to like your "second choice" so much that you will not want to switch — partly due to post-purchase rationalization. – Roman Jan 15 '19 at 14:18
  • @Roman: I hope that becomes true. But it's a small startup with 15 people and I worked with them in their office for 3-4 days to give them a feeling of my background and skills etc. There are things that came to my observation (which is irrelevant here) that gave me a feeling not to like them. – Mathmath Jan 15 '19 at 14:20
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    Just as Richard says, take the offer on the table and that's that. "Some emails from another company" mean nothing. – Fattie Jan 15 '19 at 14:39
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You aren't necessarily being played. How would the recruiter benefit by deliberately stringing you along? However some recruiters are simply careless and/or incompetent. If you need a job, I wouldn't rely on that recruiter.

Charles E. Grant
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  • @ Charles E grant: good point. But then how can one be so careless that this is the third time he told he'd call me, but then didn't. It's not that he's not pickng up the phoen when I try to follow up, but all he's saying is he'll call me on this future date (and last time he told me that he was moving). The group is a well-known group in France, so I wouldn't expect either playing me or beig this much careless. – Mathmath Jan 15 '19 at 06:36
  • Charles, they most certainly do benefit by retaining your CV in their "talent pool". – Roman Jan 15 '19 at 12:33
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I asked this question. So this morning, I had closure on the subject. The recruiter called me and informed me that the new post that they were planning to offer was in fact with a different subsidiary of the parent company than the one I was interviewed for (this can very well be true as I know that I interviewed for a specific subsidirary). However, with some recent administrative changes to the parent company, the post doesn't exist anymore. However, he finds my profile interesting and will contact me should a relevant position arises. I think this ends the matter.

Mathmath
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Recruiters are the sleazy insurance salespeople of the 21st century.

Why?

They exploit inefficiencies in the job market by acting as a apparently necessary and competent intermediary between firm and talent. They are neither.

To the firm, they want to seem like a skilled sniper in the war for talent. To the talent, they want to seem like a powerful partner in their dealings and negotiations with the firm. They are neither.

Instead, they people peddlers, job bait-and-switchers, a third party selling arms to both sides — no loyalty whatsoever.

Their business model: to seem to firms like only they have the best and brightest, the greatest talents, the raw diamonds. For that, they charge a hefty premium of up to 20% of a new recruit’s first year salary.

Also their business model: to seem to talent like only they can get you that awesome job at the big firm with the salary you dreamt of. For that, they want your CV to stuff it into their candidate pool and inflate its numbers.

So?

Yes, it is a really hard job on their side, but you should trust recruiters like you would trust someone trying to sell you a „tailored insurance solution“. Or even better: like you would trust a used car salesperson. Inspect the offer, look under the hood, ask for paperwork.

Until you have something (meaning: an offer, in writing), you have nothing. Don’t neglect hard chances for a soft maybe.

Source: the multiple messages a week from all kinds of recruitment companies.

Roman
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