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My partner just left The Netherlands to drive to Germany. He called me to say he is already 3 hours in the trip, crossed the border and reminded himself that he forgot his passport. He asked me to send him pictures of it, just in case.

When I grabbed the passport to do so, I noticed he didn't only forget it, it also expired a month ago. He has with him a valid drivers license, but no other means of identification. Is this legal and/or safe?

Is there anything I can do for him now or is there anything he should keep in mind? He will be back tomorrow night, but it still worries me.

Crazydre
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Summer
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    You have added the Dutch citizen tag, does that mean that he is a Dutch citizen? If so then I would be totally relaxed. Both countries are in the Schengen area. Does he have any other ID e.g. his identity card or a driving licence? – badjohn Jun 19 '17 at 15:13
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    @badjohn As OP approved my answer, they're clearly Dutch. Also OP's Partner has a driving licence – Crazydre Jun 19 '17 at 15:24
  • @Crazydre Yep, I did not read carefully enough. – badjohn Jun 19 '17 at 15:28
  • As far as I remember everybody (or at least every adult) in Germany has to have an ID on them all the time. He might get away with his driving license, he should have an ID card or passport. – Willeke Jun 19 '17 at 17:02
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    @Willeke: No, you aren't required to have an ID on you all the time. However, if authorites ask you to identify yourself, and you don't have an ID on you, they may detain you for identification purposes. This isn't something you want to happen, but you're not commiting an offense, and the only thing you lose is some time, there's no other penalty. – Guntram Blohm Jun 19 '17 at 18:20
  • @GuntramBlohm that however applies to Germans only. Citizens of the EU are covered by the FreizügG/EU and have to own and present a passport upon request (as is covered by o.m.'s answer). – Ghanima Jun 19 '17 at 21:00
  • @Willeke That's actually the rule in the Netherlands. In Germany, you are merely required to hold an officially sanctioned form of ID, not to carry it with you. In other words: it can be at home but having only an expired passport is indeed technically illegal. – Relaxed Jun 20 '17 at 05:17
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    @Ghanima Only at the border. Once they are in Germany, the rule simply mirrors that which applies to German citizens (“für die Dauer des Aufenthalts im Bundesgebiet den erforderlichen Pass oder Passersatz zu besitzen”, i.e. not “mit sich zu führen”), as it should be under EU law. § 10 does not define what “rechtzeitig” means in this context but IIRC it means within 24 hours. – Relaxed Jun 20 '17 at 05:26
  • @Relaxed that is not what I would read into FreizügG/EU §8 (1) 3 which states to produce the passport on request within the Bundesgebiet and not just at the border. However I am not a lawyer. – Ghanima Jun 20 '17 at 06:04
  • @Ghanima The fine is defined in §10 which reads “Ordnungswidrig handelt, wer […] entgegen § 8 Absatz 1 Nummer 3 ein dort genanntes Dokument nicht oder nicht rechtzeitig vorlegt.” None of this would be necessary if the obligation was the same than that defined in §8 (1) 1. – Relaxed Jun 20 '17 at 06:23
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    I've visited Germany dozens of times without passport. In fact I may travel all the Schengen with my ID card and in some countries a driver's licence is enough in most cases (I'm Spanish/British national). Travel documents for EU nationals – roetnig Jun 20 '17 at 09:12
  • @roetnig the question is whether the driver's license is enough in this case,.because the traveler doesn't not have an ID card. – phoog Jun 20 '17 at 13:46
  • Not all driver licenses are equal. Mine is issued officially and is enough in most cases to avoid a visit to the Police station. But not enough for flights, and such. – roetnig Jun 20 '17 at 13:56
  • @roetnig I'm pretty sure all driver's licenses in the EU are issued officially... They are often tolerated as means of ID at unofficial places like bars etc but as far as the evidence other commenters showed it is not a legal or offical means of identification. And ID cards are not mandatory in The Netherlands, most people over 24 don't have one. – Summer Jun 20 '17 at 14:00
  • @JaneDoe1337 Carrying some officially sanctioned form of ID is in fact mandatory in the Netherlands. It's not necessarily an ID card (could be a passport for example) but the Netherlands is one of the countries in Europe with the strictest rules in that regard so I would be surprised if most people didn't have one (don't have any stats unfortunately). Furthermore, a Dutch driving license is in fact accepted as ID in the Netherlands for many things (not only unofficially), e.g. picking up a parcel or voting. – Relaxed Jun 20 '17 at 15:48
  • Everyone is describing what is normal within Schengen, however it's worth being aware that any state can unilaterally suspend Schengen arrangements and enforce border checks - as Germany recently did on the Austrian border during the influx of refugees. Always worth carrying a passport or national ID when crossing borders within Schengen, just in case. – Daniel Hume Jun 20 '17 at 16:15
  • You should always carry your passport or national ID card, when crossing borders, also those within the Schengen area. So 'not just in case'. Several people here claim it is not needed as you can proof your nationality in other ways, but a passport or ID card is the best/official way. – Willeke Jun 21 '17 at 15:29

4 Answers4

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Relax, there are no border checks between the Netherlands and Germany (which he should know as he already crossed), and if stopped for a police check, the copy of the expired passport should definitely satisfy them that he is Dutch, as it's only expired by one month.

Furthermore, to get all formal about it, Germany accepts Dutch passports expired by less than 5 years, so although he doesn't have it with him, like I said, you are completely overthinking this.

Crazydre
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  • That's good to hear, thanks for the link with extra info. – Summer Jun 19 '17 at 14:41
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    Random customs checks are actually quite common when entering Germany from the Netherlands to unveil drug smuggling. When crossing the border, you are according to German law and independent of your citizenship, obligated to carry recognized travel documents (passport or a national id card issued by an EEA state). – Tor-Einar Jarnbjo Jun 19 '17 at 15:20
  • @Tor-EinarJarnbjo And according to EU law, you cannot be refused entry to an EU state if you can reasonably prove Eu citizenship. Also, do they check passports/visas during These customs checks? – Crazydre Jun 19 '17 at 15:22
  • @Crazydre but how is someone who left his proof of citizenship at home going to prove his citizenship? – phoog Jun 19 '17 at 15:31
  • Id checks are common in all interactions with customs or police in Germany. As phoog already pointed out, a passport or id card is required to prove the Dutch citizenship and a copy can easily be falsified. Many EU or Schengen countries have national laws requiring you to carry or be in posession of recognized id documents and it can not be assumed that these regulations are in conflict with the right to free travel. – Tor-Einar Jarnbjo Jun 19 '17 at 15:38
  • @phoog I guess the next question then is; can a drivers license prove dutch citizenship? – Summer Jun 19 '17 at 15:40
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    @JaneDoe1337 it does not. It does not list the bearer's citizenship, and having Dutch citizenship is not a requirement to get a Dutch driver's license. – phoog Jun 19 '17 at 15:45
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    Having a Dutch name and a Dutch accent with a Dutch car and Dutch driver's license should be good enough of an argument, unless the cops find another reason for a deeper check (maybe the car smells too much like weed or he's speeding or such) – johannes Jun 19 '17 at 16:36
  • @Tor-EinarJarnbjo Are These checks done by the police or customs? I do know (Schengen-internal) immigration checks aren't uncommon when entering Germany from Switzerland (although significantly less common than when entering Switzerland itself). Sometimes these are actually carried out by customs (such as once at Weil and once at Rheinfelden-Autobahn), and sometimes by the Police (such as another time at Rheinfelden-Autobahn and once at the Konstanz-Döbeleplatz bus stop) – Crazydre Jun 19 '17 at 17:05
  • @JaneDoe1337 Licences are tied to residence, passports and IDs to nationality – Crazydre Jun 19 '17 at 17:08
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    @JaneDoe1337 that said, the license strongly implies that he is legally resident in the Netherlands, or at least that he was at one point, and it will certainly help in the unlikely event that he gets in trouble with the police to establish his credibility, making it more likely that the police will treat him relatively less harshly. – phoog Jun 19 '17 at 17:47
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    @JaneDoe1337, when it comes to questions of immigration, the German authorities are supposed to give EU citizens the benefit of the doubt. Your partner would be roughly in the same situation as a German citizen without ID, except that they can't query Dutch records quite as easily. – o.m. Jun 19 '17 at 18:22
  • @Tor-EinarJarnbjo What's your definition of “quite common” and your evidence for that? Anecdotally: I crossed this border about a dozen times per year during the last ten years, mostly by car, sometimes by train and I have not been checked a single time. I don't think “many Schengen countries” have laws requiring carrying ID incidentally, matter of fact I only know one (but it's the Netherlands!) – Relaxed Jun 20 '17 at 05:14
  • https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/freiz_gg_eu_2004/__8.html says that it is only required to carry a passport or ID while crossing the border. Once you're in the country, it is not required anymore to carry it (only to have it and produce it if necessary) – dunni Jun 20 '17 at 05:32
  • @Crazydre just to give you an update, he just crossed the border again, no issues. :) – Summer Jun 20 '17 at 14:57
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    @JaneDoe1337 As expected – Crazydre Jun 20 '17 at 15:35
  • @Crazydre: The checks at the Swiss-German border are customs checks, not immigration checks. I haven't been asked for papers by the Germans or Swiss since Switzerland joined Schengen, and I go back and forth across the border at least every week. (Usually Bad Säckingen, Laufenburg, or Waldshut but occasionally anywhere between Konstanz and Basel.) We do now have WT plates (which mark us as local), but that was true even when using number plates from the UK. – Martin Bonner supports Monica Jun 20 '17 at 16:11
  • @MartinBonner You go by car. I go by bus, and have never experienced an actual customs check, but plenty of (again, internal) immigration checks (esp. entering Switzerland). What they do is check whether those who need a Schengen entry stamp have one, and often verify their destination and purpose of trip. Guess it varies depending on the mode of transport – Crazydre Jun 20 '17 at 16:31
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For EU citizens, there is a small risk of minor inconveniences.

  • EU citizens are required to be able to present a passport or acceptable substitute at the German border upon request by the authorities, as set down in §8 (1) 1. FreizügG/EU.
  • The probability of having to show papers at an internal Schengen border is very low. It might go up if one matches the "typical profile" of a drug buyer or seller. Anyway, he OP's partner crossed the border. (Other readers of this answer might be less lucky.)
  • EU citizens are required to own a passport or acceptable substitute while in Germany and to present it upon request by the authorities. They are not required to carry it with them. If he gets into a traffic accident or the like, the absence of papers will complicate things, just as it does for a German citizen who does not carry an identity card with him/her.

Intentional or negligent failure to own papers may be punished with a fine, but I would not worry about that very much.

o.m.
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  • For a traffic incident, will the police normally ask for the ID or passport in addition to the driver's license? – phoog Jun 19 '17 at 17:48
  • German driver's licenses have a photo, but no expiry date. That makes them iffy as identity documents. Before the EU format came around, there were people with 50-year-old licenses. Now there are plenty of people with ten-year-old ones. – o.m. Jun 19 '17 at 17:55
  • Okay, but there are also people with 10-year-old passports and ID cards. What would happen if a tourist were stopped while driving with only a foreign license? – phoog Jun 19 '17 at 18:02
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    @phoog, if the police really want to "throw the book" at him, there is §8 FreizügG/EU with the requirement to own papers and §10 with a fine for deliberately or negligently failing to do so. I haven't heard about that happening to Dutch citizens, but I'm no expert in that area. – o.m. Jun 19 '17 at 18:26
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    My understanding is that "own" doesn't mean "carry on one's person"; see for example https://travel.stackexchange.com/q/95106/19400. – phoog Jun 19 '17 at 18:31
  • @phoog, combined with the requirement to present them at the border, I'd understand it has having the papers in the same country as the visitor. – o.m. Jun 19 '17 at 19:46
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    But there is no requirement to present them at the (Schengen internal) border between the Netherlands and Germany. – phoog Jun 19 '17 at 21:05
  • @phoog, the FreizügG creates a requirement to carry papers and to be able to present them to competent authorities. The fact that competent authorities normally do not ask for papers doesn't mean one doesn't need them. – o.m. Jun 20 '17 at 04:52
  • @o.m., are you implying that my pink driver's license is not valid anymore? Good that I don't drive... – Carsten S Jun 20 '17 at 07:32
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    @CarstenS Your pink driver's license is valid until at least 2021.http://www.n-tv.de/ratgeber/So-lange-ist-Ihr-Fuehrerschein-gueltig-article18177176.html – toni Jun 20 '17 at 10:37
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In Schengen, ID cards appear to be viable substitutes for passports as travel documents, so the Dutch Identiteitskaart should suffice, if he happens to have it on him.

hiergiltdiestfu
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    It does suffice within virtually all of Europe (and some places outside), not just Schengen. However OP's Partner doesn't have it – Crazydre Jun 19 '17 at 15:23
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    A lot of people over the age of 24 do not have a identiteitskaart as it was not mandatory for them to get one. My partner does not have one either, he only has his passport and drivers license. – Summer Jun 19 '17 at 15:26
  • In the USA your State-issued driver's license is your identity card nationwide. Identity cards, per se, are unavailable; except the Dept. of Motor Vehicles (or whoever issues drivers' licenses) will issue them to non-drivers only. They say "Identification card" but otherwise look, walk and quack like a driver's license. So if I saw a movie where a Slovenian cop demanded ID and got only a Dutch driver's license, that would seem totally normal to me. – Harper - Reinstate Monica Jun 19 '17 at 16:58
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    @Harper There's the US passport card, but few People other than border area commuters have them. Otherwise, that's the equivalent of our national ID Cards (in fact when I use my European ID at bars in the US and they ask what it is, I always call it a passport card) – Crazydre Jun 19 '17 at 17:00
  • @Crazydre I thought many states had ID cards "for people who don't drive". At least Ontario, Canada does ("Ontario photo card"). – gerrit Jun 19 '17 at 17:18
  • @Gerrit Enhanced state ID, that is correct, but they're state-issued and not federally (unlike European IDs) and are less "powerful" as travel documents – Crazydre Jun 19 '17 at 17:21
  • @gerrit the non-driver id has developed to address the fact that driver's licenses are used in the US and Canada as de facto identity documents. They are issued by driver licensing agencies as a matter of practical convenience. Except for "enhanced" licenses and id cards, which are issued by only a handful of states and a couple of provinces, they say nothing about the bearer's nationality. In the US, they are increasingly tied to legal immigration status, however, thanks to the Real ID act. Still, they are functionally and legally more like an EU driver's license than a national ID card. – phoog Jun 19 '17 at 17:56
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I thought that I did the same, travelling from Greece to Denmark (only having a European driver's licence and not my ID). According to this link, it's not a travel document, so you can't use it. At the same time, you shouldn't be asked for any travel documents, but you never know.

In my case, I did have my ID with me, but the airline told me that they wouldn't accept me on the flight if I had forgotten it (nothing to do with border checks).

As previously said, you do not actually need a passport, although it's good to have one, and especially for Germany-Netherlands it's unlikely that you will encounter trouble.

It's just the responsible thing to have travel documents with you.

RaidenF
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