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My wife and I got bus fines today in Bologna. We had only recently arrived and had purchased a ticket from where we were staying which was about 6 or 7 km from the city. The hotel receptionist explained the ticketing system to us and said that if we buy a ticket we could use it on as many journeys for 75 minutes.

We took the bus from our hotel to Bologna and then straight away got on another bus to get to central Bologna where all the sights are. When we got on this other bus we assumed that it was ok as we were still within the 75 minutes.
However, when we tried to validate our tickets in the machine it flashed red like an error had occurred so we figured something wasn't right.

We tried to ask the driver about it or if we could buy a ticket but he just grunted and started to drive off. We therefore started to leave the bus at the next stop so we could try and buy another ticket but were ushered back on by a few men who turned out to be ticket inspectors!

They alleged that our tickets were not valid in the city and that we had to pay a 65 euro fine. They wanted to see our official documentation and so took details from our UK driving licences and issued us both with fines. They wanted us to pay there and then, but we explained we didn't have enough cash on us to do so and they then stated we could pay by card.

However, I still wasn't happy about doing that so he then said that we could pay later by going to an Italian post office; or if we don't pay within a certain time the fine will go up to 270 euros each and will be posted to us (he got our addresses off our UK driving licences)!

I am a bit miffed about this as we were noway trying to evade and as soon as we realised our mistake we tried to talk to the bus driver to buy a ticket or get off the bus, but he drove off and ignored us! I have a slight suspicion that it was a rouse as it is very strange that he did this and then out of nowhere bus inspectors got on and made a beeline for us!

If we go back to the UK without paying these fines and ignore the subsequent fines that they send us through the post (if they do send any), then what happens? Do they have any powers when we are back in the UK? a total fine of 500 euros for an honest mistake seems utterly outrageous.

Fine below

enter image description here

Peter
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    Possible duplicate of Leaving Italy without paying a fine for a bus fare violation – mts Apr 06 '17 at 17:22
  • Interestingly we have a question close enough that I have voted to close as a duplicate. Did you get any paperwork on how to pay the fine in a post office, or rather did you get any paperwork at all? If so please post a scan with personal details blacked out, otherwise it may be hard to help. – mts Apr 06 '17 at 17:23
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    @mts That question was "will they let me leave the country?" – Berwyn Apr 06 '17 at 17:25
  • @Berwyn fair enough, retracted. But at least OP knows he will not be forced to stay in Italy. Have more of an answer at hand? – mts Apr 06 '17 at 17:26
  • @mts Tried searching to see if anyone got fines abroad, but no luck so far. The law is here: http://www.cittametropolitana.bo.it/disabili/Engine/RAServeFile.php/f/normativa/Legge_regionale_2_ottobre_1998_30.pdf (Art 40 – Berwyn Apr 06 '17 at 18:08
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    I guess the deal is pay now and have peace of mind or take the chance that they will come after you at home. At least the fine is legit and not a scam. – mts Apr 06 '17 at 18:19
  • I know you can't ignore traffic fines within the EU, they will be collected by your own government. I'm not sure if this extends to bus fines. And I think I heard something of the UK plan on leaving the EU. – RHA Apr 06 '17 at 19:49
  • http://travel.stackexchange.com/a/69192/14104 – Count Iblis Apr 06 '17 at 22:52
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    Are you sure the fine was genuine and not an attempt to scam tourists? – gerrit Apr 07 '17 at 13:15
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    @gerrit I read Italian, the fine depicted looks legit to me. Especially the payment options don't seem like a scam to me – mts Apr 07 '17 at 16:47
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    Not knowing the rules doesn't mean you are free to break them, even if they seem unfair. Next time study the rules more carefully or take a taxi. That's what I personally do - if using the public transport is too hard for any reason I just take an Uber in a new city. – JonathanReez Apr 08 '17 at 09:05
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    The fine for an honest mistake is not €270, but €65. The fine for an honest mistake, plus not paying the original fine in time, is €270. In cases like this, where there's no way for a ticket inspector to distinguish between an honest mistake and a dishonest fare evasion, they are penalized equally. (As far as I know, this is the case not only in Italy but in most other countries, including the UK.) – Pont Apr 17 '17 at 08:10
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    the fine is authentic, the sanction was emitted because your ticket was not valid for the bus you took (number 38) you had a two zone tickets, so probably you started from another town near Bologna outside the urban zone, (like number 97 for example) the ticket you had was enough for you only for the journey between the two zones, not for taking additional buses inside Bologna zone. The relevant page is this one http://www.tper.it/biglietti-abbonamenti/mi-muovo-uso-dei-titoli-di-viaggio the receptionist gave you a wrong advise how the buses work. – Guido Preite Apr 21 '17 at 12:14
  • also I checked and the fine will up to 260 when they will notify it to collect, as you didn't pay in 5 days (in that case you were allowed to pay a reduced to 65 euro) your fine is still 87 euro.You can also pay it online http://www.tper.it/sanzioni (site in Italian only, sorry) – Guido Preite Apr 21 '17 at 12:23
  • @JonathanReezSupportsMonica By definition one who knows the rules and ignores them, breaks them, so the sentence Not knowing the rules doesn't mean you are free to break them makes no sense, moreover a tourist could simply be blinked an eye over. That's silly. no one has then time and the mental energy to read a whole booklet of rules. I can understand the harsh stance against the locals, but not the tourists. Plus they should consider that the tourists are potential victim of scams and giving a fine for an unknown rule to the breaker is a scam itself. You can be set up with this pretext. – abdul Oct 31 '19 at 20:51

2 Answers2

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In Europe, they slowly start to send fines to foreign citizens. Having said that, country A would have very limited power to force you to pay if you are leaving in country B. They will send you a lot of letters trying to frighten you that the sky will fall on your head if you don't pay but the reality is that right now, nothing will really happen. This is especially true since you are in UK and UK is going to leave the European Union.

In most European countries, in order to be able to directly take the money on your bank account if you don't pay by yourself, a public authority would need to go to the court and have a final court decision. So do you think the Italian public authority would initiate a claim with UK court to achieve that? Certainly not...

There are some agreements that are being set to try to harmonize processes and make it easier for public authorities to collect money from foreign citizens but it is far from being something that is working well because it is always subject to conflict between country A and country B laws. Luckily, in Europe, you are still protected by your home country law while you are there.

And don't worry about Italy preventing you from leaving the country. The system are certainly not synchronized. And they have way bigger issues to deal with than to chase people like you.

Having said that, if I were you, I would pay the fine while it is still at a reasonable level, even if it is unfair. It is always better to pay when it isn't too expensive because even if today, nobody will chase you, maybe in 5 years, the process will have evolved and it will be easier for them to recover the money and you don't want to pay the hard bill at that time...

Laurent
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    They could put your name on the list of people to be detained upon future entry, due to a suspected fraud charge that needs clearing up... – rackandboneman Aug 30 '17 at 03:24
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    @rackandboneman Not gonna happen over fare dodging, at least not in a Schengen country you're not a citizen or resident of, – Crazydre May 08 '18 at 13:54
  • Having been caught fare dodging repeatedly can and has been brought to court as attempted fraud in multiple counts, and I have met people that had parole sentences handed to them over it. – rackandboneman May 08 '18 at 18:39
  • @Crazydre Italy is a very peculiar country, many Moroccans with Italian citizenship ,having moved to France from Italy and having literally LOADS of collected fines have not paid a single penny yet. And all of this after 7 years came to pass. So I don't think there's any risk at all, even if it's Schengen because Schengen countries don't have the same modus operandi. If this thing happened in France and the traveler lived in Belgium then I can tell you yes, but for Italy I don't know. – abdul Oct 31 '19 at 17:04
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    @Crazydre Italy is a very strange country in everything. – abdul Oct 31 '19 at 17:09
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    @abdul I'm from Sweden and live in Switzerland. I owe the French SNCF 4400 euros in fines, but haven't heard a word from them. – Crazydre Oct 31 '19 at 17:21
  • @Crazydre Either because they don't want to conduct a huge paper work or they don't want to reach a huge extent just for an outsider (who's not even a citizen) or simply because they have plenty of French credit collectors to think about or simply because they have you on record but haven't seen your case yet. – abdul Oct 31 '19 at 17:27
  • @Crazydre these individuals I was talking about haven't being reached while having a passport of that very country, let alone if this thing should be happening to you for a fine taken in a country you're not a citizen of and don't live in. Moreover you live in an ulterior other country, so even if they go to the extent of searching you in your citizenship country and don't find you that will be enough for laziness to kick in and make them give up. – abdul Oct 31 '19 at 17:35
  • Anyway it's not an economic damage for them, because it was just a stranger sitting in a bus or train without a little contribution. However has 4400 euros rolledover from a single fine or is it the amount of collected fines? – abdul Oct 31 '19 at 17:38
  • @abdul It's the amount in total. On TGVs, each fine is usually 200-300 euros depending on the trip. I just present my ID, tell some random story if asked, declare my destination and the receipt is printed and serves as my "ticket". Same with ICEs in Germany, although with those I'll use the short-distance trick instead if starting the trip at the route's starting point, thus not getting caught – Crazydre Nov 01 '19 at 16:49
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Sorry Bro! I'm from Bologna, this kind of "zone ticket" has been introduced 10 years ago and it's still not clear to me!

Seems like it was probably not clear also to the guy which sold you the ticket, as he sold you a ticket to move out of Bologna, while you probably bought in the city to move within the city.

Said this, It should still be alright because you should be allowed to use that ticket inside the city, for a longer time, as you pay it more than a urban ticket (you paid 2,10€ against 1,50€ of urban ticket). But, as I said, after that 10 years TPer has introduced this new kind of ticket, it's still not clear to me!

Drivers doesn't sell tickets, and if they speak english is just a plus, same for the inspectors. Welcome to Italy!

Every bus has a red machine inside where you can buy a 1,50€ urban ticket for 2€, no change, but most of the time they're out of work. TPer is experimenting new black machines where you can buy tickets just by tapping your card but you can find them just on some buses, it's still a "beta test" but I'll be very smart in future.

About your UNFAIR fine, I'm afraid you'd have to pay it, I believe they can find you in UK (I also can, as you didn't hide your DL number from the picture!)

Next time you come to Bologna, PM me, I owe a beer in the name of Italy! (I also live in Fiera district!)

Willeke
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Matte.Car
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