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The title of the question pretty much sums up my situation. I'm in Italy, I wish to travel to a non-Schengen European country. My visa for Italy is a multiple entry 'D' long stay. I have applied for the residence permit but haven't gotten it yet.

Can I leave Italy and re-enter without any problem?

The question is similar to this one here Can I leave the Schengen with my Type D Multi Entry visa from Spain

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KayJay
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  • I don't see how your question differs from the one you have linked (I mean sure, you say Italy rather than Spain, but as its all under the same rules, the same answers should suffice) – CMaster Nov 17 '15 at 10:42
  • True, but the question I linked doesn't have an actual answer. The 'answers' in there just go in detail about how the visa can be used to enter Croatia, which wasn't what the question asked, and which was already known. – KayJay Nov 17 '15 at 11:07
  • @KayJay No need to be dismissive, the answer (no quote) answers both questions. The first sentence covers Spain and the rest Croatia (and the original question did not suggest in any way that the rules for Croatia were already known). – Relaxed Nov 17 '15 at 13:22
  • @Relaxed I had no intention of being dismissive! I apologize if my tone came across that way. The answers didn't seem specific enough; the first sentence said the visa is equivalent to the permit, but that doesn't explicitly address the ability to leave (and re-enter) Italy using just the visa alone (i.e. if they were truly equivalent, why the need to even apply for a permit?). The question also then had an edit where the asker had to clarify that he was worried about re-entering Italy specifically, not about entering Croatia. In any case - we are digressing here; I'm sure you agree :) – KayJay Nov 17 '15 at 14:23
  • @KayJay They are only equivalent as far as the Schengen regulations are concerned (cf. article 2(15) of the Schengen Borders code). The main reason you need to apply for a permit is that most countries do not issue regular visas from within their own territory. The logic is that the long-stay visa replaces the first permit and that you need a proper permit after that. But some countries (e.g. Finland) directly issue a permit, thus making the visa completely unnecessary. – Relaxed Nov 17 '15 at 14:46
  • Another reason behind the distinction is that residence permits and long-stay visas weren't originally equivalent, it has been added to the regulation/agreement later. Incidentally, article 2(15) is an obvious kludge, redefining “residence permit” as covering residence permits and visas. – Relaxed Nov 17 '15 at 14:49

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If your visa is still valid, I don't see any problem, the usual rules apply and you are exempted from the visa requirement to enter the Schengen area.

If your visa has special conditions or is not valid anymore and you are only staying on the basis of your pending application for a residence permit, then leaving and reentering is probably not allowed.

Relaxed
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  • My visa has no special conditions and is valid. My understanding was that the visa allows me to enter Italy, but to then be allowed to continue legally staying in Italy, I need to have my permit (hence the requirement to register with the police and apply for the permit within 8 days of arrival). I was therefore worried about the implications of leaving Italy without having received the permit, causing problematic re-entry. I have read online that the visa and permit are essentially equivalent, but can't find anyone with any practical experience of this... – KayJay Nov 17 '15 at 11:11
  • @KayJay If that's the case, that would be a special condition. Most D-type visas simply remain valid after you have entered and applied for a permit and can cover up to one year of stay so that you only need a permit to stay after the end of the visa validity period. But I don't know the exact rules in Italy and I have no personal experience with that. – Relaxed Nov 17 '15 at 13:18
  • I'm a bit confused now. Which part are you saying is the special condition exactly? – KayJay Nov 17 '15 at 14:17
  • @KayJay The need to have a permit for the visa to remain valid would be a special condition. That's not how it usually works, the type D visas I am familiar with are valid in and of themselves, sometimes with an additional stamp, until the expiration date and you only need to apply for a permit to cover the time after the expiration of the visa. But there are hundreds of these things in the Schengen area and I don't know Italian law specifically. – Relaxed Nov 17 '15 at 14:44
  • I see. Well I haven't seen any information anywhere that talks about a long-stay visa (D) that does not require a non-EU citizen to apply for the permit upon arrival, so I was under the impression that this is a standard condition, not a special one. Would you be able to perhaps point me to any place online where there is information on these type D visas that you speak of? i.e. not requiring the stamp? Thanks :) – KayJay Nov 17 '15 at 15:07
  • @KayJay Not sure if that's what you are asking for but a French VLS-TS typically does require the holder to get a stamp within three months of entering France but not to apply for a residence permit before the end of the first year in France, those are two distinct requirements. But like I said, there are hundreds of different type-D visas across the Schengen area. Unlike short-stay/type C visas they haven't been harmonised. – Relaxed Nov 17 '15 at 16:01
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    @KayJay whatever rules apply to your Italian type D visa in Italy do not apply to any other type D visas in any other country. The valid type D visa, unless it carries a notation to the contrary, allows you to stay up to 90 days in any 180-day period in Schengen countries aside from Italy; you only count days of presence in Schengen countries other than Italy. The function of the visa in Italy is controlled by Italian national law; you'll have to look there to see whether you can leave and re-enter Italy. – phoog Nov 17 '15 at 21:36
  • @phoog Makes sense. I'm just hard-pressed to see why, if the visa is Italian Type D and multiple entry - shouldn't that automatically mean I can leave and re-enter Italy i.e. what other purpose would a multiple entry serve if the visa already lets me travel within the Schengen Area? – KayJay Nov 18 '15 at 10:10
  • @KayJay It's because the Schengen system is built around existing long-stay visas. – Relaxed Nov 18 '15 at 14:40
  • @KayJay it should mean that you can leave and reenter Italy. Why wouldn't you be able to? Perhaps your visa was invalidated when your residence permit application was filed. Unlikely, but possible. If that were the case, however, they would most likely have stamped it as invalid. So you have a source that suggests your visa doesn't let you remain in the country? – phoog Nov 18 '15 at 15:16
  • @phoog No I don't have a source that lets me suggest my visa doesn't let me remain in the country - I just have some sources (friends who were in Italy in the past, same case) who were always instructed (by their legal contacts) not to leave Italy. Hence my concern. I've spoken to a couple of Italian immigration authorities over the past couple of days and I get conflicting info from each - in fact, one body said I can leave, and one said I cannot. It's hard to talk to the authorities here. I'm contemplating going to the Border Police at the airport tomorrow and finding out once and for all. – KayJay Nov 18 '15 at 15:31
  • @KayJay a lawyer would be a more impartial source of information. In the cases you're familiar with, was the visa still valid? For an expired visa with a pending application, the restriction of staying in the country makes sense. For a valid visa, not so much. – phoog Nov 18 '15 at 15:59
  • @phoog yeah the visa was valid. which is what makes all this so weird. I've found what I believe to be some pretty solid info though; it seems in April 2010 a regulation was passed which at least makes it clear that the valid visa can be used to travel within the schengen area without a permit i.e. the visa functions as a permit. If the visa allows multiple entries, I don't see (logically) why I wouldn't be allowed to leave the schengen area. The link to the regulation is here: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2010:085:0001:0004:EN:PDF – KayJay Nov 18 '15 at 16:21
  • @KayJay You certainly can leave the Schengen area. – phoog Nov 18 '15 at 16:22
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Answering my question in case it helps someone out in the future - despite getting conflicting info from a bunch of sources (Italian immigration included), I ended up leaving and re-entering Italy without any problems. I asked the official stamping my passport upon exit at the airport in Italy for advice and he said I was okay. Upon re-entering, the border official asked me if I had a permesso di soggiorno. I said I applied but haven't received it yet. No further questions were asked and he let me back in.

KayJay
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