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I have been visiting Denmark with my C type tourist visa which was valid from 21.09.2014-21.03.2015 multiple entry and duration of stay 90 days. I didn't know about the 90/180 day rule so without knowing it, I have stayed there first from 21.09.2014-16.12.2014 (87 days) and after 20.12.2014-16.02.2015 (59 days), I mean totally 146 days in this 180 days period. But luckily nobody noticed it in the airport while I was leaving. No stamps, no penalties, nothing.

After turning back to my country, I applied to visa again and the Consulate of Denmark, without any questions, provided me again C type tourist visa which is valid from 22.03.2015 to 22.03.2016 multiple entry and duration of stay 90 days. Sorry about my ignorance but my question is:

I want to visit Denmark in 22.3.2015 again, Would the passport control officers notice and penalize me because of my last overstay, and this 90/180 day rule would start from my new valid visa or when exactly?

Mark Mayo
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haku
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    What's your citizenship? Also, to clarify, you've already applied for your new visa and got it accepted with out question? DId you have to detail your trip dates from the last trip, and if so, did you lie about them or use dates that 'worked' on the application? – Mark Mayo Mar 11 '15 at 12:10
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    (Not accusing you of anything, just trying to establish the facts so we know what the actual answer may be) – Mark Mayo Mar 11 '15 at 12:34
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    I am a turkish citizen, and i didn't lie about my last duration of stay or my new trip dates. actually while appliying to new visa the consulate wants photocopies of every issued page of your new or old passports, and they can perfectly see your last trip dates. i mean you cannot hide anything from them. – haku Mar 11 '15 at 12:35
  • and to answer your question, i have got my new visa without any questions, i mean they accepted my app. and provide me a new visa which is valid from 22.03.2015-22.03.2016 – haku Mar 11 '15 at 12:48
  • If they issued a new visa and there was no deception etc, then you're ok. The border guard can spot it but without proving deception, there's no case to answer. – Gayot Fow Mar 11 '15 at 14:42
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    Are you really “visiting”? By my count, you have spent five of the last six months in Denmark and want to enter again after having spent about a month in Turkey… – Relaxed Mar 11 '15 at 14:50
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    Thinking about this a bit more, I am very surprised you got a visa. What purpose for visiting Denmark did you provide? With what supporting documentation? – Relaxed Mar 11 '15 at 15:31
  • Are the entry and exit stamps from your previous visits to Denmark applied properly and legible (e.g. not smeared or difficult to read) in your passport? – Tor-Einar Jarnbjo Mar 11 '15 at 20:40
  • @Tor-Einar Jarnbjo, They are very clear to read, i wish i can share the photos of them, and also, i have changed my passport a year ago because the old one's pages were totally full, i mean, my passport is quite new and clean, so no one can confuse the the entry and exit stamps. – haku Mar 11 '15 at 21:45
  • @Gayot Fow, your answer makes me smile after reading all the other ones. I hope this is the convenient answer for this case, thanks mate.. – haku Mar 11 '15 at 21:50
  • @haku I made a mistake in the calculation and it's actually worse than I thought, you definitely cannot enter before May and even then you could face serious problems. Sorry! – Relaxed Mar 12 '15 at 14:13

1 Answers1

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Formally, I don't think that having been granted a visa changes anything to your position. Depending on local law, border guards could probably still fine you for the earlier overstay. Of course you might also get lucky and nobody notices but you would be taking chances.

Importantly, the 90/180 rule applies across all visas and it's a rolling period (it does not really start or end, you must never have stayed more than 90 days in any 180-day period). Getting a new visa does not ‘erase’ the previous stays from the tally and you don't have the right to enter the Schengen area on a short-stay visa before some time in May.

Because of that, if you try to enter now, the border guards could not only deny you entry and send you back to your country of residence but also decide to annul your visa, because the conditions for issuing it were not met at the time it was issued (namely because you already exhausted your 90 days). It seems the consulate simply did not notice the second stay because otherwise they should have refused to issue a visa.

But at this point, the technicalities of the maximum stay rules are not your only concern. Border guards might very well think that your abusing the system to reside in Denmark and deny you entry on that basis alone (formally: because you have no adequate purpose for your stay).

You have stayed almost five months with short interruptions and both your previous stays have lasted two-three months. You last left less than a month ago, after a rather long stay that was itself illegal. Would border guards believe you when you enter now and tell them you fully intend to respect the rules?

If you want to go to Denmark (or elsewhere in the Schengen area) again, you need to wait at the very least until May-June, ideally longer than that, before trying to enter again. This would avoid the appearance of staying in Denmark semi-permanently and you would be more credible in claiming that it was an honest mistake, if someone does notice the overstay at this point.

But since you definitely cannot enter the Schengen area in March, it seems to me that your visa should not have been issued and could therefore be annulled at any time. The safest approach if you want to be able to help your family in the near future would therefore be to seek legal advice and see if you could secure another type of visa that would be more appropriate for the situation.

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Relaxed
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  • @haiku The problem is that border guards have seen and heard a lot but being suspicious is part of their job. That's why I wrote “border guards might very well think” and “the appearance of staying in Denmark semi-permanently”. What I believe and whether you are sincere is ultimately irrelevant, an overstay just looks bad and that means you need to be especially careful now. – Relaxed Mar 11 '15 at 16:41
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    Personally, I certainly don't mind if people want to reside in the Schengen area, whatever their circumstances, but the public mood in Europe seems quite hostile to the idea and policies are consequently quite restrictive. Helping a family member for longer periods of time (it's been more than six months now…) and practicing your trade (if that's what you are doing, even on a pro bono basis) is not what short-stay visas are for. Maybe the consulate was sensitive to the situation and that's why they chose to turn a blind eye but legally speaking it seems you are in a precarious situation. – Relaxed Mar 11 '15 at 16:48
  • I really appreciate your detailed answers Relaxed and your keen attention to this unique subject, and i am very sure some people will benefit from this conversation. As a result i am certain that i need to visit consulate again before my departure. Thank you very very much from the heart, Best Regards – haku Mar 11 '15 at 17:11
  • @haku To be honest, I am not sure that's such a good idea. You don't want to give them second thoughts. I still think the best would be to wait. If you do try your luck and even if that's not a guarantee of anything, have a return ticket with you as well. Or consult with a Danish lawyer to see if you might qualify for another type of visa. – Relaxed Mar 11 '15 at 17:40
  • I guess you are right, it is not a good idea to visit embassy and confused them too, it is better to wait six months from my second visit i mean from 20.12.2014, and wish for the best... But i hope someone could answer me, who had been through this kind of situation and what kind of processes they had lived. – haku Mar 11 '15 at 19:20
  • The first stay isn't far enough in the past to ignore; you're just considering the entry date, but that's not enough. 180 days before 2015-03-22 was 2014-09-23; on March 22, the OP will have been in the area for 144 days out of the past 180. The OP will not be below 90 days in the past 180 until May 15. – cpast Mar 12 '15 at 13:07
  • @cpast Yes, you're right. I think I made that mistake because the first stay would have been far enough in the past, if not for the second stay. That also means the current visa could be annulled. – Relaxed Mar 12 '15 at 13:27
  • @cpast The answer has now been corrected, thanks! I suspect this also explains why the consulate did issue a new visa, they most likely did not notice the second stay and issued a visa starting six months after the first one. – Relaxed Mar 12 '15 at 13:47
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    Dear cpast and Relaxed, i am very grateful about your comments. today i didn't visit the consulate but had a decent conversation by phone-call. And they told me it was their mistake by issuing me a new visa starting date from 22.03.2015, but it is better not to apply for a new visa to change it for my good, and also they advised me not to visit any schengen states untill the middle of May. – haku Mar 12 '15 at 15:01