14

I can totally understand someone reclining his seat on a long-distance flight. On a short hop, I don’t have any sympathy for anyone using his “right” to recline his seat. The seat pitch on short flights these days make you an anti-social person by default if you choose to recline. I had my share of not being able to even drink a cup of coffee because somebody just wanted to “rest”.

I usually try to reposition my legs as much as possible, not only because I have to, but also to try to make the journey as unpleasant for the rester as it is for me. I’m aware that is just childish behaviour, so I am wondering whether there are more effective and more civilized countermeasures to make the flight pleasant for both of us.

Community
  • 1
  • 28
    The commercial answer is to pay for business or first class. – mouviciel Sep 02 '13 at 07:18
  • 5
    Cramming more seats into the same are makes the airline anti-social. Jamming your knees in someone's back 'to make a point' marks you as childish. +1 to mouviciel, or looking for flights on less crowded airlines, or ... (see others' comments). – hunter2 Sep 02 '13 at 07:56
  • 28
    I think it's rude for people to refuse to let you to recline. Everyone's paid for their seats, and if you really have a problem with leg space, then buy premium economy or a higher class ticket. Or try to check-in and get seats near bulkheads. – Ankur Banerjee Sep 02 '13 at 08:52
  • 2
    @AnkurBanerjee It is not about refusing people to recline, it is about making people being aware they are actually rude by just reclining without notice. –  Sep 02 '13 at 11:23
  • 4
    Many airlines now allow you to pay for bulkhead or exit row seats now. I do it pretty much every flight these days. That said, I'm really for not allowing seats to recline and letting everyone have equal comfort. –  Sep 20 '13 at 15:32
  • To me it's not about being able to drink a cup of coffee. Would be good to mention people who are already suffering from the minimal amount of space without reclined chairs in front of them. – the Aug 27 '14 at 20:58
  • 2
    @mouviciel Or fly Cathay Pacific, which compromises between reclining and not reclining ("fixed-back recline" in which the seat bottom is moved forward instead of the seat back moved back). – gparyani Nov 27 '14 at 05:38
  • 2
    @gparyani Several airlines have economy seats like that now. I think even some of Delta's and Southwest's are like that now. It's a much better design, IMO, as it means you're using your own legroom when you recline, not the legroom of the person behind you. – reirab Dec 31 '15 at 17:48
  • I think the passenger in front of you has indeed a right (without quotes) to recline, just as you do. And interestingly, if you erase the quotes there is no longer a question. – Peter - Reinstate Monica Jul 01 '19 at 00:27

6 Answers6

64

No, you do not have any right to stop the person in front from reclining, and yes, it's childish behaviour on your part to try to stop them. Everybody on a plane has the right to recline their own seat, and flight attendants can and will enforce this if asked.

You put "rest" in quotation marks, but maybe they really do need to recline: they might be sick, connecting from a 17-hour flight spent next to a screaming baby, any number of things that are really none of your business. I've reclined and slept like a baby on a short-hop SFO-PHX flight... because I just flew in from NRT and didn't manage to sleep a wink.

The one useful thing you can do to create a bit more space for yourself is to recline your own seat.

lambshaanxy
  • 99,649
  • 41
  • 569
  • 806
  • 29
    If somebody asks how many minutes they should zap their babies in a microwave to dry them after a bath, it's still a correct answer to tell them not to do it... – lambshaanxy Sep 02 '13 at 02:01
  • 2
    Anyway, I agree with you in everything you said. FYI, cabin crew are not allowed to ask people to put their seats in upright positions just to please the passenger behind. Unless it is landing or take off :) – Nean Der Thal Sep 02 '13 at 02:07
  • 6
    Note that while food is being served flight attendants usually ask people to put their chairs upright, so eating isn't usually a problem. – DJClayworth Sep 02 '13 at 03:05
  • 1
    This is not answering the question. I am looking for civilized solutions to solve an issue with a fellow passenger who is so inconsiderate to just recline without any announcement. Remember that with downsizing of the weight of the modern airline seats, shock absorbers are the first to go. So where in older planes the seats just recline gently, they now just go. It is also my perfect right to sit next to you in an empty bus, yet social conventions dictate against it. The next time you need a nap simply communicate it with the person behind you, would already make the difference. –  Sep 02 '13 at 05:27
  • 12
    Your original question said nothing about communication? If this is your actual concern, there's an extremely simple solution: ask the person in front to tell you before they recline. – lambshaanxy Sep 02 '13 at 05:32
  • 1
    Why do you need to recline to get rest? Can't you rest in sitting position, without crashing the passanger behind? Doesn't an individual have the right not to be crashed in the first line? – Danubian Sailor Aug 27 '14 at 07:55
  • 1
    Reclining your won seat often pushes your legs fowards, reducing your legroom. In economy on many airlines I can't recline my own seat much if at all for this reason, and my knee often blocks the seat in front from reclining ("Could you please stop banging your seat into my leg" is sometimes necessary). I'm not even exceptionally tall. – Chris H - UK Aug 28 '14 at 09:22
  • 3
    "Everybody on a plane has the right to recline their own seat" [Citation Needed] – reirab Aug 28 '14 at 15:49
  • 3
    @reirab: That's what the recline button is there for, my friend... – lambshaanxy Aug 29 '14 at 00:21
  • 1
    @jpatokal Being possible and being a right are quite different things... – reirab Aug 29 '14 at 13:50
  • 4
    @ChrisH Indeed, many of the newer seats do reduce your own legroom when you recline them. Personally, I actually like those, as it means that the person in front of me is using their own legroom to recline, not mine. Those types usually don't bang into my knees when the person in front of me reclines. At any rate, though, there isn't any type of economy seat (at least not that I've ever seen) where you can gain legroom by just "reclining your own seat," as this answer suggests. I take that this answer was not written by someone with long legs who has experienced this. – reirab Dec 31 '15 at 17:38
15

So, there are two mechanical solutions to, what is, fundamentally social problem, but before I provide them, I want to make clear that employing these is an easy way to be regarded as a jerk by your fellow passengers, and not without merit; the seat is designed to recline, and while putting it back can be inconsiderate, restricting the use of the feature by others can be just as inconsiderate on a long flight. Think long and hard about just how much of an asshole you are willing to be before attempting to block the passenger in front of you from taking what small comfort they can in the horrid conditions found in coach class on a commercial airliner.

First, the commercial solution: The Knee Defender. A small device that clips onto the arms supporting the tray table, when the clip is in place, the seat in front of you is unable to recline. It can be adjusted to allow for limited recline, if you're feeling considerate, but the 'courtesy card' provided by the manufacturer should be pretty clear evidence that this is inherently a pretty inconsiderate product.

Knee Defender Courtesy Card

If, in addition to being a jerk, you're also a cheapskate, you might want to look into using a water bottle or other, similarly sized rigid object as a shim to prevent the seat in front of you from reclining. Like the Knee Defender, this has the downside of requiring that you keep your tray table down to rescue your precious legroom, and, unlike the Knee Defender, also will take up some space on the tray table, which may or may not bother you. It is similarly inconsiderate to use.

Alternately, you could be less of a jerk, and pay the often pretty nominal premium to get a bulkhead facing/exit row seat, where nobody is in front of you to recline.

LessPop_MoreFizz
  • 10,392
  • 3
  • 42
  • 68
  • :) I like the courtesy card, especially the "If you would like to recline your seat this much ..., please let me know". If only that would be a default announcement. –  Sep 02 '13 at 05:38
  • 2
    I can imagine that this might be against 'the rules' to use. 'The rules' being either the airline's rules, the FAA (or equivalent) regs, or a combination. Installing unauthorized, unlicensed, unregulated personal equipment on a commercial airline should open you up to a whole lot of liability issues. – hunter2 Sep 02 '13 at 07:44
  • 2
    @hunter2 The FAA has said the Knee Defender is okay, though several commercial airlines have forbidden them. – LessPop_MoreFizz Sep 02 '13 at 13:45
  • OK, good note. It seems plausible to me that if they've explicitly said that, they've confirmed that it 'fails well', and is unlikely to result in injury (even when broken/'abused') - something they could not confirm with impromptu methods (bottle). – hunter2 Sep 03 '13 at 04:30
  • 4
    Note that this has just made the news after two passengers got into an argument over its use – Mark Mayo Aug 26 '14 at 14:47
  • 2
    On a long flight, yes, restricting the recline would be inconsiderate, however, for what it's worth, the OP's question specifically mentioned that and referenced short flights, where the seat pitch is typically much less. For people with long legs, having someone lay their seat on your knees is not just a minor inconvenience, as the inability to recline would be on domestic flights for most people. Of course, long-haul flights where everyone is expected to recline (and where seat pitch is generally higher) are a different story. – reirab Aug 27 '14 at 21:20
  • 1
    @reirab If you've got long legs, the seat doesn't lay on your knees, but presses against the kneecap from in front. – Chris H - UK Aug 28 '14 at 09:23
  • If you're travelling on business, the employer will not normally pay for an extra legroom seat. Some airlines may allow you to upgrade by an additional payment on a separate account (so I won't comment on whether you should have to do this), but many won't and tall people are completely stuck. – Chris H - UK Aug 28 '14 at 09:25
  • 1
    @ChrisH I was intentionally exaggerating a bit, but, to be fair, it presses against your kneecap from the top-front, since the seat-back is angled backwards (and more so when reclined.) So, it is, to some extent, laying on your knees, but you're correct that it's mostly pushing from the front (not that that's really any less uncomfortable.) – reirab Aug 28 '14 at 15:43
  • 2
    How is this answer marked correct? If the question was "How can I be a total jerk on a flight?", then yes, this answer is correct. As it stands, @jpatokal's answer is the correct one. – Diego Barros Mar 23 '15 at 02:49
  • 1
    The bottle thing is a bad idea. If it slips it will be propelled at high speed towards your face. – user Sep 17 '15 at 12:58
8

Lifehacker actually has a post about ways to find out which seats are actually non-reclining, so that you can try and book the seats behind them.

A similar article of theirs shows the (meaner) option of blocking the seat with something like a water bottle.

enter image description here

(from gawkerassets)

There's the aforementioned Knee Defender, as well, but that's where you start getting controversial, and indeed Northwest, American, and Continental Airlines have banned it.

It helps to remember that nobody is comfortable in economy class, tempers are short, and purposefully preventing someone from reaching that little bit of comfort they believe they're entitled to by reclining may cause a response from them which you may not enjoy...

Mark Mayo
  • 159,394
  • 103
  • 679
  • 1,477
  • 1
    I do not think the plastic bottle is less controversial than the knee defender. Using either of this is bad advice in my point of view, even if that is what is asked for by OP. – uncovery Sep 02 '13 at 06:26
  • 2
    @uncovery I didn't mean that it's less controversial, just that some airlines ban the Knee Defender, but they don't ban bottles. Note that I did indicate in my final paragraph that it may not be the best idea to use these responses, and my first suggestion was to look for seats without this problem. – Mark Mayo Sep 02 '13 at 06:35
  • Ok, then let me just stick to the "bad advice", then :) – uncovery Sep 02 '13 at 06:39
  • 10
    "... nobody is comfortable in economy class": Whenever I start thinking I'm uncomfortable in economy class and I just stop for a moment and think how lucky I am to be a member of the jet set at all and remember I chose to spend my limited income on economy airline seats rather than cigarettes like other low income earners I know. We're pretty spoiled compared to most of the other seven billion people around if this is what we have to complain about. – hippietrail Sep 02 '13 at 07:41
  • 8
    "believe they're entitled" .. are entitled. People who have paid for a seat that is designed to recline have paid for that entitlement. // Could be more controversial - if I slam a lot of weight against a KD, hopefully it will hold or 'fail gracefully' (hopefully ...). If I do that to this 'hack', what do you reckon will happen? And who is liable, then? – hunter2 Sep 02 '13 at 07:50
  • 1
    If only @hippietrail could make his comment into an answer, I would make it the accepted answer. –  Sep 02 '13 at 08:04
  • Having said that, I do hate seats that are able to slam back in an instant and smash your knees before you can contort yourself. This is mostly a problem on old worn out buses and trains rather than even the cheapest airlines though. – hippietrail Sep 02 '13 at 08:13
  • 1
    And I 'get it' too, especially when my computer is in the mix (in the path of the reclining chair) - but that doesn't mean that the reclining party is the jerk. – hunter2 Sep 02 '13 at 10:56
  • 3
    @hunter2 I'm not saying they're NOT entitled, as I was writing it I nearly put in the fact that many booking sites now describe the number of degrees the seats incline, so yes, they paid for it. However, just the fact that they feel they have the right to recline (which I'm not saying they don't) means that when you block it with a bottle or whatever is likely to ruffle some feathers. – Mark Mayo Sep 02 '13 at 11:00
  • 2
    @hippietrail obviously. But that's comparing apples and oranges. I'm very grateful to be able to travel by plane, and I willingly buy the cheapest seat available, because I'd rather spend my money on other stuff. But if you survey an economy class of passengers after LHR->HKG->AKL, very few of them will be feeling terribly comfortable, was my point. But yes, comfort is relative, #firstworldproblems, and all that. – Mark Mayo Sep 02 '13 at 11:02
  • @MarkMayo If they ban knee defender its safe to assume they don't want you doing anything to stop the person infront of you from reclining. – Andy Sep 17 '15 at 16:20
  • 1
    @Andy or that they don't want arguments/fights to ensue... – Mark Mayo Sep 17 '15 at 23:16
  • Which blocking with a bottle will also likely cause. – Andy Sep 17 '15 at 23:28
  • 1
    True, but the OP seems intent on ignoring that anyway :/ – Mark Mayo Sep 17 '15 at 23:38
5

I just came across "The etiquette of seatbacks and elbow room" It nicely answers the OP. I would suggest to read the full blog, but the ettiquete is outlined as follows:

  1. Look Before You Lie Back
  2. Use Only What You Need
  3. Mealtime: Sit Up Straight
  4. For red-eye flights: " I say equip planes with a third light next to the "seatbelt" and "no smoking" lights: "Seat backs down.""

The blog then continues what to do if you are the victim of an instant recliner:

  1. When the person in front of you leaves his seat, nudge the seat back up a little on the sly. Don't be too obvious -- if he doesn't notice (or even if he does), you may reclaim some of your personal space for the duration of the flight.
  2. If the person in front of you blasts her seat back and then proceeds to buck in her seat against your knees, you may need to use similar body English to reclaim some of that space. I'm not encouraging you to become a "seat-kicker," but sometimes you gotta make the case in terms the other guy will understand. If she's slamming against your knees...
  3. Politely request that she put her seat back up slightly.

Personally I think this blog nicely covers the issue form both perspective.

  • 1
    I think those numbered suggestions for what to do if someone reclines are in reverse order. There is an option 0 too - buy a better seat if you need it. – user Sep 17 '15 at 13:13
5

I'm much taller than average and in some airplines it's already tight without reclined chairs in front of me. Thus on most flights I keep my legs in a normal position, which already makes it very difficult for the person in front of me to recline their seat. This is enough for most cases. But not all.

Communication is usually the best way out of this. Explain to the person in front of you that you need the space (standing up has helped me convey that message in most cases) and if needed with the airplane personnel. If there's another chair available they're often happy to help you out.

Unfortunately that doesn't always work out either. I was on a 10+ hour flight with a person in front of me insisting on reclining their seat. My legs are really long and the chair was painfully pushing against my knees. All seats were full. I tried to communicate with the person, in 5 languages, without any kind of response, as if they were deaf. The flight personnel was also mostly ignoring my situation, even though they managed to get some response from the person (so they were not deaf).

I finally just put my legs over the chair in front of me, pointing upward, a situation that lasted for more than half an hour, after which the person somehow came to their senses and moved their chair slightly forward giving me just enough space to keep my legs in a normal position.

the
  • 1,077
  • 1
  • 11
  • 23
  • 1
    @drat, if they're not taken (you'd have to be a giant for them to bump someone else from that seat), and you're not travelling with (e.g.) an infant who's banned from an exit row. For that matter the proportion of people with femurs long enough to have problems in economy appears to be greater than the proportion of seat with extra legroom. – Chris H - UK Aug 28 '14 at 09:18
  • 1
    @Kasper - In life there are advantages to being tall, tons of them. I am around 6 ft as well, but there are disadvantages too. Leg room in aircraft, back seats of cars and when traveling by buses & trains. The seats are designed to allow recline to relieve a persons SPINE and NECK from the load. If you need more space buy a more expensive ticket. I had a super huge OBESE guy next to me once and did not like how he was overflowing into ME and MY space. – Alex S Dec 19 '15 at 12:12
4

One thing to do is to ask for a new seat. Some airplanes may have a few "extras," and give you some choice of seats.

Even if there are no "new seats," the fact that you asked puts the airline on notice that there is a problem. If they're at all on the ball, the cabin crew will talk to the other passenger and try to work out something between the two of you.

Tom Au
  • 6,704
  • 1
  • 32
  • 50
  • Even better, ask that the recliner gets the better seat so that you don't get any benefit beyond not having a recliner in front of you. That will seem less like you are just trying to get a free upgrade. – user Sep 17 '15 at 13:15