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I have dual citizenship - Irish/British - and have passports for both countries.

Am I bound by the 90/180 day rule when travelling in the EU after Brexit?

V2Blast
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Sarah Dover
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    You are an Irish citizen, why would you not be allowed to stay in the EU as long as without Brexit? – Willeke Mar 17 '19 at 19:48
  • @Willeke If you're an EU citizen, you can stay as long as you like. If you're a post-Brexit British citizen, you can only stay as long as you're allowed. Unless you know the answer, it's not obvious what happens if you're both of the above. – David Richerby Mar 17 '19 at 21:37
  • @DavidRicherby Unless there's a no-deal Brexit, which sadly I doubt will happen, British citizens will retain full EU rights until 2021 – Crazydre Mar 17 '19 at 22:15
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    @DavidRicherby: that would make sense only if the 90/180 day rule was some kind of punitive/security measure against the UK, which it is not (unless the whole brexit debacle spiralled way out of control when I wasn't looking). Otherwise, I don't imagine nationality in a third country would play any role whatsoever. And here, it is not even a third country --- Ireland is in the EU. – tomasz Mar 18 '19 at 12:56
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    @DavidRicherby Ireland is in the EU, why would being a dual citizen with any other country affect an Irish citizen's right to be in the EU? You really think an Irish citizen would be forced to move to Britain? – Kevin Mar 18 '19 at 17:25
  • @Kevin I don't think that, no. I'm just pointing out that it's not obvious to somebody who doesn't already know. As evidence that it's not obvious, I present this question and countless others on the theme of "I have passports from A and B and I want to visit C. Citizens of A need a visa, citizens of B don't -- do I need a visa?" – David Richerby Mar 18 '19 at 17:28
  • @DavidRicherby Visa rules are a very different question from residing in or traveling to the country of one's citizenship. Any country can refuse a visa (or waiver) for any reason, including having a (second) passport from a particular country. I'm pretty sure there's an international treaty explicitly requiring signatories have an unlimited and unrestricted right for citizens to enter and reside in the country/ies of their citizenship. – Kevin Mar 18 '19 at 18:08
  • @Kevin I already understand all of this: please stop explaining it to me. I was just disputing Willeke's suggestion that the answer is obvious. – David Richerby Mar 18 '19 at 18:12

2 Answers2

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Because of your dual citizenship, you are in the position of being able to effectively ignore the border control aspects of Brexit. No matter what happens, you will still have the right to enter both the UK and the EU without restrictions.

The only thing that could change this is if Ireland chooses to leave the EU, too. This does not seem likely at this point.

Greg Hewgill
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  • @Mehrdad Why? Only the Irish one is needed – Crazydre Mar 17 '19 at 22:14
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    Based on the Common-Travel Area - someone on an Irish passport can enter and leave the UK independent of the EU Freedom of Movement:

    After a ‘no deal’ Brexit on 29 March 2019 If you are an Irish citizen you will continue to have the right to enter and remain in the UK, as now. You are not required to do anything to protect your status.

    Link

     – Paddez Mar 17 '19 at 23:31
  • @Mehrdad yes. Irish citizens have slightly greater rights in the UK than other EU citizens. These rights existed for decades before the UK and Ireland joined (the predecessor of) the EU. British immigration law has been (or perhaps is still being) amended to preserve these rights after Brexit. See for example https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/common-travel-area-guidance. – phoog Mar 17 '19 at 23:36
  • @phoog: Interesting. I thought the whole Ireland border issue meant they couldn't do this, thanks for the correction! – user541686 Mar 17 '19 at 23:37
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    @Mehrdad the Irish border issue concerns customs, not immigration. To the extent that anyone is worried about immigration, it has to do with people other than Irish citizens getting to the UK through Ireland, but even if that were to lead to stricter immigration checks on travel between the ROI and the UK, it wouldn't create a restriction on the amount of time an Irish citizen can spend in the UK. – phoog Mar 17 '19 at 23:38
  • @phoog: Ahh, right! Kind of surprising it's such a big issue given it's just customs. – user541686 Mar 17 '19 at 23:43
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    @Mehrdad: As I understand it, the big issue is border enforcement, which typically implies having to cross at official border crossings (and waiting at the checkpoint and so on). Even if every citizen of either country is guaranteed to be admitted at such a crossing, it nonetheless creates a lot of "friction". – ruakh Mar 17 '19 at 23:58
  • @ruakh: The thing is there are other places where it seems to work fine (Hong Kong comes to mind?)... but somehow it seems in Ireland's case it's going to result in bombings? – user541686 Mar 18 '19 at 00:12
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    @Mehrdad: Well, the "bombings" thing is just because it means reneging on the agreement that ended the bombings. I don't know how serious the risk of resumed bombings really is. But even if it doesn't spark renewed terrorism, you should keep in mind that the border is currently completely open. Many people even live on one side of the border and commute daily to work on the other side, because the border didn't matter. So if leaving the customs union involves (say) closing 250 roads (out of roughly 270) and causing (say) 40-minute delays on the rest, that's a huge change. – ruakh Mar 18 '19 at 00:18
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    @Mehrdad what works fine in Hong Kong? I've never crossed its border. But keep in mind that the situation is more complicated in northern Ireland, because it is part of the UK. Hong Kong is not associated with any other country. – phoog Mar 18 '19 at 00:31
  • In a strictly technical sense the bombings have already resumed, although only with five small symbolic letter bombs: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/mar/12/group-calling-itself-ira-claims-it-sent-parcel-bombs-uk-addresses – pjc50 Mar 18 '19 at 09:48
  • (also HK has a very real border with China, mostly crossed at a single giant transit hub: "Lo Wu Control Point". There's an exclusion zone: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontier_Closed_Area . And I don't think there's full legal freedom of movement between the two countries either!) – pjc50 Mar 18 '19 at 09:51
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    @Mehrdad: My terse comment doesn't do justice to the problems of Northern Ireland, but the core point is that the open EU borders have removed the need for a consistent Irish/British governmental presence in the border area, which has helped dramatically with lowering the friction between the governments and those who oppose them (in some cases up to the point of terrorism). Having to reopen the border posts risks reigniting those anti-governmental sentiments and thus sparking a new wave of rebellions (even if they manifest differently than before). – Flater Mar 18 '19 at 10:42
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    @Mehrdad The current border between Ireland and Northen Ireland is like that between France and Germany, or New York and New Jersey. The aim is avoid it becoming like the border between Germany and Switzerland or USA and Canada. Both of those are low-friction borders (with daily commuters), but there are delays and infrastructure which would violate the Good Friday Agreement / Belfast Agreement (delete name to political taste). – Martin Bonner supports Monica Mar 18 '19 at 12:18
  • The way things are going, it doesn't even seem likely the UK will leave the EU. – corsiKa Mar 18 '19 at 16:10
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Even after Brexit, you will be an EU citizen because of your Irish citizenship, so you have all the rights that an EU citizen has. When you enter the EU, you should do so using your Irish passport. There are more details in the answers to our reference question about using two passports.

David Richerby
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