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Not living in Canada, my siblings visited Casa Victoria restaurant (紫爵金宴) in Toronto for lunch. Everything went swimmingly until they saw this on their bill:

SAUCE 芥 6.00

They were never notified of this charge, not written anywhere on the menus or dim sum sheet. They never requested any sauces. So they requested a manager, and a man in a business suit came. They don't speak a word of Chinese, and this dialogue followed:

Manager: This is for table covers, sauces, preparation.
Siblings: Why would we be charged for these? They're standard in any restaurant.
Manager: This is standard policy. It's in many restaurants. Have you never been to Chinese restaurants?
Siblings: Can we have your name please?
Manager: Sorry. I'm not allowed to give names.
Siblings: It's not fair to charge us for something that was never agreed. Will you please waive and remove this charge?
Manager: Sorry. I cannot. This is policy.
Siblings: Sorry. We don't like hidden charges. They're very unfair. Is there anything you can do to help?
Manager: Sorry. No. This is owner's policy.
Siblings: Is there someone else who can help with this?
Manager: I'm the only manager. Anyway, you have to pay it. If you don't, I report you.

Weary and frightened by this threat, my siblings paid the bill, but without the standard tip of 15%.

I base the titled question on ethics, not money, as suing for $6 CAD is obviously senseless.

Further research

Googling "chinese restaurant" invoice "cover charge" yields other restaurants that charge this. Legend Chinese Restaurant in Thornhill, ON:

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Park Chinois Restaurant at 17 Berkeley St, London:

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Miss Ene explains how these charges stunned her:

Anyhoo, the point of this entry is not to rave about the food at Chin Lee. Instead, I would like to draw your attention to a little unknown cost. Well, it was pretty unknown to me until today.

Now, we all know that restaurants charge for the wet napkins and peanuts/pickles that the place on your table at the start of each meal. I don’t have a problem paying for it because I am sure it all adds to their operating costs. However, I was pretty appalled that we (4 pax) paid $10 (excluding 7% GST) for “cover charge” and 2 plates of “pickles”. They were steamed peanuts, by the way.

Community
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  • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. – Willeke Oct 28 '18 at 19:58
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    Is this the place to air dirty laundry about specific restaurants (that you purposefully linked to)? I think you should remove the identifying comments and just focus on what the issue is. – Azor Ahai -him- Oct 29 '18 at 02:34
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    @AzorAhai I referred to those restaurants as evidence of this covering charge, not to smear them. –  Oct 29 '18 at 04:29
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    @Greek-Area51Proposal The link to the restaurant your siblings visited doesn't appear to be evidence for anything other than the restaurant's existence, and I have no idea what searching online for other restaurants which also apply a cover charge is supposed to add to your question (which, after all, boils down to "how do I dispute a restaurant bill in Canada?", your specific reason for wanting to do so not being of great importance) - especially the one from a restaurant which isn't even in the same country. – Chris H Oct 29 '18 at 08:07
  • The restaurant has plenty of poor reviews, but I find noone complaining about fraudulent billing and invented cover charges. Are you sure that your siblings simply didn't oversee them? I am not sure about Canada, but cover charges are in many countries or types of restaurants quite common and nothing unusual. – Tor-Einar Jarnbjo Oct 29 '18 at 14:05
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    For clarity: is that last one calculating service charge over the cover charge? Mental... – Weckar E. Oct 29 '18 at 14:53
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    @Tor-EinarJarnbjo Cover charges are not typical in restaurants in the US or Canada. Bars or clubs, sure, but I'm not surprised that Greek's family was taken aback by this, I would have been as well. – Azor Ahai -him- Oct 29 '18 at 17:07
  • @AzorAhai Didn't consider his nick name, but if Greek is actually Greek, he has much less reason to be surprised. Restaurant cover charges are very common in Greece, where they occasionally are not listed and used to scam tourists. – Tor-Einar Jarnbjo Oct 29 '18 at 17:50
  • @Tor-EinarJarnbjo I don't think they are, this user has rotated between a few different "X - Area 51 Proposal" names over the years. – Azor Ahai -him- Oct 29 '18 at 17:52
  • Sounds like "Gedeck" in German, "Coperto" in Italian, "Kuver" in Turkish. Also, there seem to be different (regional/cultural) habits concerning the billing (or nor billing) of things like bread and olives served; sometimes they are not billed at all, sometimes they are always billed (or justify the cover charge), sometimes they are billed iff you use them. – Hagen von Eitzen Oct 30 '18 at 08:45
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    @HagenvonEitzen: Those are made explicit on the menu, though (so you know before ordering if you care to read). If the menu doesn't make it explicit, I wouldn't be afraid of simply not paying the cover charge, or in case the manager is wholly disagreeable on that, not pay the meal at all. What's he going to do? Report me? Woah, I'm really afraid, you know. No restaurant owner, let alone this particular one, wants police in their place, so that's an empty threat. But even if he calls it in, nothing would likely happen even if police bothered coming at all, given the circumstances. – Damon Oct 30 '18 at 11:49
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    I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it is not about travel, except insofar as the person was travelling when the incident occurred. – David Richerby Oct 30 '18 at 15:38

7 Answers7

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Next time, pay and report the restaurant to the Ontario's consumer protection board here.

You need to pay and you should pay with a card so that there is paper trail of the payment.

Make certain you take pictures of the menus, bill, and anything that could/should state or not if there is a cover charge or extra charge. Try to take the picture of the menus with your bill next to it, again, to show that it is the proper menu.

If there is a cover charge, it should be plainly written on the menu.

Mast
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Max
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    Also take pictures of the entrance, any outside menus, etc. If a sign is found, but is obscured by a large plant or similar, take a picture of that as evidence of it being deliberately obscured. – ProgrammingLlama Oct 29 '18 at 05:21
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    Why do you need to pay? Pay the rest, leave your address and name and tell them to sue you. If they call the police, stay and wait for them, explain the situation and be gone. - Am I missing something? – DonQuiKong Oct 29 '18 at 06:11
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    @DonQuiKong - Because then you have to wait 30-60 minutes for a policeman to arrive who might be sympathetic to the owner and possibly arrest you. – Valorum Oct 29 '18 at 08:44
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    @Valorum they can't arrest you for disputing a charge. But if you pay you'll never get that money back. – DonQuiKong Oct 29 '18 at 09:43
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    @DonQuiKong - I'm pretty sure that refusing to pay for a meal is a crime, at least in the UK it is – Valorum Oct 29 '18 at 09:47
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    @Valorum It's only a crime if you went with the intention of not paying, otherwise it's a civil matter. – George Oct 29 '18 at 10:32
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    @DonQuiKong - Ah yes, you're right. I meant if you leave before the police arrive. Once they're called you've basically got to sit there until a copper turns up or the owner could accuse you of "making off". – Valorum Oct 29 '18 at 10:41
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    @Valorum yes, but that way they have to sue you (they probably won't). And it's bad publicity in front of all other guests there. If you pay, you have to sue to get your money back. Which you probably won't for 6 dollar. – DonQuiKong Oct 29 '18 at 12:37
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    @George - "... It's only a crime if you went with the intention of not paying,..." Is that true in Canada? Intent to pay is considered if someone dine-and-dashes? Does that intent go beyond restaurants, such as a bank or retail stores, where intent would determine if I get a criminal or civil trial? – BruceWayne Oct 29 '18 at 18:16
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    @BruceWayne uh, I think the intent thing might be more about my suggestion of paying the rest and leaving your address. That's a pretty clear “I'm disputing this charge, not running away“ – DonQuiKong Oct 29 '18 at 18:59
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    @DonQuiKong I don't know about Canada, but in the US, paying any amount of a debt is recognized by courts as tacit agreement to pay all of it. If you contest any portion of a charge, pay nothing until a settlement is met. But, I'm not sure if an immediate restaurant bill is "debt" in the common sense, and further, it's just $6 in this case. I'd leave cash on the table and walk out, personally. I'd also not visit the place again. –  Oct 29 '18 at 19:02
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    @fredsbend that's interesting, are you sure? In Germany I'm pretty sure you'd be advised to pay the part that's undisputed because that way the other party can't get a partial win in court and has a lot more risk. I don't know any mechanics about accepting a debt if you dispute parts of it and pay others. – DonQuiKong Oct 29 '18 at 19:05
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    @max Do you have any evidence that this is not standard practice in Canada? When I was in Portugal, they'd leave bread and oil on the table. If you ate any, you were charged, but if you didn't eat any, you were not. This apparently was so commonly understood that it was written nowhere. We ate a lot of bread we thought was free before we noticed we were being charged for it. –  Oct 29 '18 at 19:05
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    @DonQuiKong It's well enough established in case law that debt collectors will try to convince you to pay just a small amount now, then say "we can settle for a lesser amount later". Then they get a judgement against you, showing the judge that you already began to pay and are now trying to welch. And if the debt is large enough, they proceed to lien against your property. Further, I remember studying this specifically in Business Law courses in college. –  Oct 29 '18 at 19:08
  • @fredsbend: That doesn't apply if you dispute individual line items immediately. – Joshua Oct 29 '18 at 21:06
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    @BruceWayne in derivatives of English Law, *mens rea* is a defining prerequisite to a crime. It means "guilty mind", or the modern meaning, intent. Of course that is complicated to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, and in some areas of law they define certain preconditions to be intent (e.g. Possession of marijuana over a certain quantity), but certainly if defendant can frame the issue as "a dispute over a charge that most people would find irregular", that proves lack of intent. – Harper - Reinstate Monica Oct 29 '18 at 22:41
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    @Valorum : So if they add a $500 item labeled "just because we can", you are still obliged to pay and is it a crime if you don't? – vsz Oct 30 '18 at 08:25
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    @vsz - What you're describing is akin to a clip joint. Those are illegal in the UK. But yes, if they imposed a small additional charge and you left without paying, the owner could easily claim that you'd left without settling your bill and have you arrested (or at least detained for questioning). At that point it's his word against yours unless you actually waited for the police. – Valorum Oct 30 '18 at 08:29
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    "You need to pay" - why is that? This seems to be implying that whatever charges you are presented with for whatever reason in an establishment then you must pay them. This doesn't at all sound like something anyone "needs" to do. – ESR Oct 31 '18 at 04:30
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For better or worse, it is quite standard for dim sum/yum cha places worldwide to charge cover charges, often mildly disguised as fees for peanuts, napkins, tea, sauces, which are all brought to your table without asking. I've seen this in Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore, Australia, etc, which are notably all also places where cover charges in restaurants are not the norm.

The rationale is simple enough: eating dim sum requires an extraordinary array of little plates, sauces and utensils, and people tend to make an event of it, sitting around for much longer than (say) your average noodle place. So the cover charge is the restaurant's way of ensuring they make a modicum of profit from everybody at the table, even if they only nibble on one dumpling over two hours.

Yes, the restaurant was at fault for not making the charge clear in advance; but no, you should not feel like you, personally, were targeted in some kind of scam. And if your meal cost more than $40 or so, stiffing them on more than $6 of tips in response is really not cool -- it's the owner's policy, not the waitstaff's.

lambshaanxy
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    FWIW, cover charges is the norm in Malaysia, even at McDonalds and KFC. This is because Malaysia does not have a tipping culture from the point of view of (local) consumers but does have a tip/service fee culture from the point of view of wait staff (the more clients, the more "tips/service charge" they collect). This "service/cover charge" is so widespread that most Malaysians think it's government tax and was shocked that it did not disappear when the government changed the tax laws. – slebetman Oct 29 '18 at 04:16
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    @slebetman You're referring to service charges as a percentage of the bill, which are not the same thing as per-person cover charges. – lambshaanxy Oct 29 '18 at 04:24
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    It's the job of the waiter te ensure you have a good time. It was the job of the waiter to tell you about the cover charge. Now, because they didn't you had an experience in a restaurant you didn't like. This is a totally valid reason to withhold a tip. The waiter should have told you about the charges. – Pieter B Oct 29 '18 at 10:55
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    In my restaurant experience, management may also be getting a small portion of the tips. Honestly, if both the server and manager are unable to resolve or explain the issue in a satisfactory way, I think it's a fair response to withhold those tips. Although tipping is considered proper etiquette in Canada, it is fairly standard to withhold tips if you feel like the service was sub par. If the manager is unwilling to help deal with a disputed $6 charge on a big bill, it doesn't say good things about management. Where I worked, management would bend over backwards to keep repeat business... – JMac Oct 29 '18 at 12:39
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    ... (continued) At very least in these situations, management would show you very clearly where it shows the $6 additional charge. Different management styles I guess... but keeping customers happy is often how you keep your staff happy by getting them more tips and having less upset customers. – JMac Oct 29 '18 at 12:41
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    @PieterB No, the job of the waiter is to bring you your food. They're the person with the least power in this situation, and stiffing them is not going to be effective in changing management policy -- the other answer's suggestion of complaining to the consumer board would be much better. – lambshaanxy Oct 29 '18 at 12:55
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    @jpatokal no, the job of the waiter is to provide good service. Bringing food is part of that, but there's a lot more to it. Part of that service should have been to avoid confusion about extra charges. – Pieter B Oct 29 '18 at 13:16
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    @jpatokal And the point of the tip is for good overall service. For some people, an unexpected charge along with the "this is how we do things, deal with it" attitude makes it a poor experience. I don't see why the person paying should be compelled to tip. I get that it's not necessarily fair to the waiter; but it also doesn't seem fair for the customer to leave a tip when they legitimately had their experience soured. Also, as Pieter mentions, a good waiter should let you know of additional charges. – JMac Oct 29 '18 at 13:16
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    This is NOT true "worldwide" in any way, shape, or form. I can't believe how inaccurate this answer is. This is absolutely not standard nor should be expected in North America. Absolutely not. I would refuse to pay this charge at ANY restaurant in the US or Canada. It's simply not how our culture works. –  Oct 29 '18 at 18:00
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    @only_pro US/Canada = ~5% of the world. You and your weird mandatory tipping culture are the outlier here... – lambshaanxy Oct 30 '18 at 00:24
  • Never faced it myself in France, Belgium, or Netherlands, but apparently it is also very common in Italy for example : https://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/9972/is-it-normal-to-have-something-added-to-the-bill-in-a-restaurant-in-italy – Laurent S. Oct 30 '18 at 14:10
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    @jpatokal only_pro was replying to the answer, not the comments about withholding tips. He's saying that it is not standard for restaurants to charge cover charges. – padarom Oct 30 '18 at 14:52
  • @Padarom Correct. I didn't @ anyone in my comment for a reason. This answer, as it stands, is inaccurate. –  Oct 30 '18 at 15:11
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    @jpatokal If waiters get less tips in this restaurant than competing restaurants, the owners will have to pay higher wages to attract comparable waiters and waitresses. Employees will quickly discover which management policies are harming their tips and they can apply more pressure than a tourist can. In a perfect world, the management would suffer more directly, but we have the world we have. (You would certainly argue that he could never eat there again. That also hurts the employees.) – David Schwartz Oct 30 '18 at 19:06
  • @jpatokal: the "worldwide part" can be lessened by at least France, Poland, Belgium, Morocco, Tunisia in all restaurants, Germany and Austria only in the case the items are in the menu (and this is thankfully something which is disappearing), I have not seen it in Spain and Greece (though I have eaten at a limited amount of restaurants and it seems that bread (especially in Spain) can be taxed). Plus US. I do not remember in Asia but since I was not shocked anywhere this may or may not be the case. One place where I know for sure they they do tax you is Czechia. – WoJ Oct 31 '18 at 09:18
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I'm Chinese and think this is really a culture difference. Not all Chinese restaurant have this kind of fee. Only Guang Dong (广式茶餐厅) and Hong Kong restaurants have this kind of fee.
As a Chinese, the first time I went to Guangdong, I was surprised about this fee too. There, it's called 茶位费。- something like you go to restaurant and take a seat to drink a pot of tea. You will be asked to pay this little amount, no matter if you drink or not. The first time this happened to me I was surprised: "Why should I pay even I don't drink tea?". Later, I know there is a history here at Guang Dong.

In Guangdong province and HongKong people like to drink tea at a restaurant and have a chat for the whole day. They call this "喝早茶" (drink morning tea?).
Just like Westerners like to go to a bar and drink something and have social talk. Often, they only ask for a pot of tea, because what they eat and drink is not important, talking and friends are. And as a convention, the tea pot should be filled when it's empty. They may even order nothing.

But if everyone goes to a restaurant and orders nothing or only a pot of tea, and occupy the restaurant for a long time, the restaurant will go bankrupt. So, it's just common at Guangdong/Hongkong.

In fact, there is some discussion about this 'table cover fee' or 'tea position fee' in China too. Some people think this is unreasonable. But most Guangdong restaurants will charge for this to make themselves more authentic.

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    I also think that some kind of reasonable explanation of the fee can be given. The issue here is more that the existence and amount of the fee was not made clear in the menu or posted somewhere in the restaurant or indicated by the staff. Usually in any kind of business transaction the buyer has to agree to buy something and has to know the price of it before the transaction can happen, not afterwards. It's just about how to do proper business. The fee itself is okay as long as customers know about it. – NoDataDumpNoContribution Oct 30 '18 at 12:29
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    Yes, @Trilarion you are absolutely right about this. Restaurant should do better, because not every customer is aware of this convention. And the manager's bad explanation only make things worse. Not a smart manager. – Blackhill de Eagle Oct 30 '18 at 14:04
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Pay the bill, then double-check the menu and the entrance for signs informing you about the "sauce fee". If you don't find anything, inform the restaurant in writing that you disagree with the charge, joining a copy of the bill and the evidence you would collect while double-checking, like photos of the menu and the entrance. Give the restaurant enough time to deal with your complaint (1 month would be considered enough almost universally), and ask them clearly to reimburse the charge you disagree with.

Chances are that the restaurant will decide to issue a refund. Or perhaps they will reply and provide convincing evidence justifying the charge. If not, you have solid paperwork to file a complaint with customer protection authorities.

This is as far as you can go without going over the budget of $6 which you're trying to get back.

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Why not simple decline to pay (that part of the bill)? Whom would they report you to?

If they call the police, you can make your argument there, and you would potentially win. And whom else would they report you to?

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  • Drawback 1: Too much time. My siblings had other places to visit and needed to leave quickly. Drawback 2: what if they report to the credit card company? Then someone would have to explain to them. –  Oct 28 '18 at 18:12
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    And what if it turns out they missed a sign on the front door or at the bottom of the menu? At this point they can't check that, and if the restaurant is correct, the police are there to issue them potential criminal charges. – user71659 Oct 28 '18 at 18:12
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    @user71659 refusing to pay a part of the bill is not a criminal charge, as it's a civil dispute. – JonathanReez Oct 28 '18 at 18:19
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    @JonathanReez Incorrect. It can be petty theft up to a felony, because can be considered obtaining goods by false pretenses. In fact, there is a specific Canadian law that makes it criminal fraud. – user71659 Oct 28 '18 at 18:21
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    @JonathanReez You're playing unlicensed lawyer here. The cops show up, the restaurant points out the sign, the cops get annoyed you're wasting their time and cite you for refusal to pay. Then you get dragged in front of a judge who thinks you're a cheapskate (summary offence), and now you have a criminal conviction on your record. I'm sure any competent lawyer will tell you to pay the few bucks, not go back, and write the district attorney if you really cared. – user71659 Oct 28 '18 at 18:31
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    @user71659 Proving fraud is very hard to do because it normally requires proving intent to defraud. If the original poster is telling the truth, that they were charged for goods or services they never ordered, then they would in fact have had no intent to defraud. If you read the page you linked, there are various circumstances where Canadian law removes the need to prove fraud, but none of them apply here. Police don't arrest people for "wasting their time" as that would only waste more of their time and judges don't convict people for being cheap. There are no district attorneys in Canada.. – Ross Ridge Oct 29 '18 at 03:59
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    @user71659 Surely the correct solution is to ask "Where is a clearly posted sign notifying potential customers of the charge? I do not see it on the menu, nor did I see it on the door as I walked in. On that basis I refuse to pay the charge." – ProgrammingLlama Oct 29 '18 at 05:13
  • @RossRidge refusing to pay a restaurant bill clearly shows intent. – jwenting Oct 29 '18 at 06:03
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    @jwenting No, it doesn't show intent to defraud. Fraud requires deliberate deception, and refusing to pay for goods or services never asked for is not a deception. Sneaking out without paying the bill would under Canadian law presume fraud, but this isn't what is being suggested here. The only party engaging in deception is the restaurant. – Ross Ridge Oct 29 '18 at 07:54
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    @RossRidge If I go to restaurant, and find they have added a $100 item for "one cup of coffee" to the bill, not paying the $100 it doesn't show my intent to defraud. It might show someone else's intent to defraud, of course. – alephzero Oct 29 '18 at 17:03
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Here in New Zealand, I've not seen cover charges like this in a restaurant - including at Chinese Yum Cha restaurants and similar. Also note that, like Australia, we don't do tipping here either (businesses pay waitstaff properly).

If I saw something like this, as an unannounced final charge, I would question it; and if I received an unsatisfactory answer, then it would be a negative review online, giving full details. Restaurants (and accommodation) here take their online reviews very seriously (as we're a tourist country) and too many people complaining can end a business.

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  • New Zealand has very strong consumer protection and advertising laws, so a cover charge that wasn't very obvious would be dealt with as soon as the first complaint came in. On the other hand, I'd take issue with "businesses pay waitstaff properly" - although that's broadly true, it's also often not true specifically in Chinese restaurants :( – Logan Pickup Nov 01 '18 at 05:11
  • True, there are always some businesses that try to shaft their staff; fortunately they're relatively rare. I was more comparing to countries like the US where waitstaff have to survive on tips alone. – Steve Shipway Nov 04 '18 at 23:13
  • Not relatively rare in Chinese restaurants, specifically (based on job ads posted in Chinese-only websites, friends who have worked in them, and actual job offers - not a single one hitting minimum wage). This isn't usually a concern of the customers, though, so it's not really relevant to the original question. – Logan Pickup Nov 05 '18 at 01:06
  • Since I can't read Chinese, I'll defer to you on that one! – Steve Shipway Nov 05 '18 at 03:12
1

The key thing missing from your quoted exchange is this:

Customer: Please point out where this charge is listed on the menu, or perhaps a sign somewhere?

Then we're at a branching point:

  1. The overwhelmingly-more-likely scenario is that it's there and your friends overlooked it:

    Manager: Here, sir. (indicating small print easily overlooked)

    In which case, pay the charge, leave, and take the lesson: Read the small print. It's small for a reason. Restaurateurs expect you to overlook it. This is particularly common in tourist areas where repeat trade is less important than one-off trade. And it's not specific to Chinese restaurants (though as noted elsewhere, a cover charge — indicated on the menu — is common in dim sum restaurants, some tapas places, etc.).

  2. It's not there:

    Manager: I'm sorry, sir. It's not specifically listed, but it's standard policy.

    In which case, you have a choice:

    1. Pay it and leave, perhaps collecting evidence (pictures of menu, video of the manager telling you they can't point to the charge, etc.) and sending it to the board of trade or whatever relevant authority it is in the province you're in. You're out $6, but there we are.

    2. Refuse to pay it (which is a lot of hassle for $6, but perhaps it's the principle of the thing):

      Customer: No. Standard policy — indeed, law — in Canada is that you are not charged for things that are not listed on the menu or on signage. If it were on the menu or a sign, I'd pay it. Since it isn't, I will pay only the charges that were shown. I suggest updating your menu to list the charge to avoid future confusion. Here's my payment for what is actually owed.

      If you're paying cash, take a picture of the cash next to the menu and bill, and walk out.

      If you're paying by card and they refuse to take partial payment, start recording a video on your phone:

      Customer: You're insisting that we pay a charge you cannot point to on your menu or any sign in the restaurant. I'm offering to pay what we owe, what was on the menu. You've refused. Will you take that payment now? No? Okay, since you won't accept payment for what we owe now, I will be sending payment for the amount we owe to your restaurant within a week. Here are my details so you can sue me if I don't, or if you want to sue me for the $6. In the meantime, we're leaving.

      At which point, if you're anywhere near as conflict-averse as I am, you'd be off spending more than $6 on a couple of calming glasses of wine in the nearest pub. :-)


    In either case, if they try to physically prevent you walking out over $6 they can't back up with a menu item, I don't know the law in Canada but I suspect they're in for an uphill battle with the police you or they will eventually have to call if they do that. Certainly get video evidence of them physically barring you from leaving, and of you offering to pay the vast majority of the bill and saying why you aren't paying the rest.

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