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Basic premise of this question is what are usual requirements for entering Ireland through Airport Immigration - and does this change based on where you departed from?

Basically - I'm a citizen and resident of Ireland - I was travelling back to Ireland last week from the United States and as I was going through Immigration check in Dublin Airport I presented my Passport Card.

This card, in general - I've used multiple times for travel between Ireland and the EU without any sort of problems - and it's far easier for me to access in my wallet than to dig out my physical passport book out of my backpack.

However, when I was going through Immigration in Dublin Airport on arrival from the US, I presented the passport card and was then asked where I was coming from.

When I replied that I had departed from the United States the immigration officer requested my actual physical passport.

I didn't really mind - nor did I want to argue the point - so I produced my passport from my backpack.

However it got me thinking and my question I guess -

  • For what reason would Irish Immigration need to see my Passport to enter the country of my citizenship - provable via the Passport Card.
  • What would have happened if I refused or lost my actual passport?
  • As a citizen of the country, am I obliged to tell the immigration official where I was arriving from?
Grzegorz Oledzki
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Paddez
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    I edited your question to restrict it to Ireland. Different countries will surely have different requirements and nobody will be able to write a comprehensive answer to the general question. – David Richerby Sep 27 '18 at 14:13
  • To proof the point of difference between different countries, I almost always enter the Netherlands with my ID card when I see an officer and I have never been asked for my passport. – Willeke Sep 27 '18 at 14:19
  • Some (possibly unrelated) comment - 1) Perhaps a spot check to ensure the passport card is not a fake one, as passport card is tied to the passport book according to this page? 2) Since the immigration official was told you are travelling from outside EEA, they must have inferred that you are likely to have your passport with you? I am not sure what happen if you refuse or lost your passport en route. – B.Liu Sep 27 '18 at 14:44
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    Another possibly-related data point: the US passport card can only be used at land borders and seaports from Caribbean locations. It cannot be used for air travel, for or ocean travel from other locations (e.g., Europe); a passport book must be used. So in this case, where you're arriving from does matter. – Mike Harris Sep 27 '18 at 14:57
  • @MikeHarris I suppose that is the explanation. Note that the page linked in the question says "can be used by Irish citizens for travel within the EU/EEA and Switzerland." I would post this as an answer, but I wanted to post a statutory citation for that restriction, and I am unable to find any statutory text relating to the passport card. – phoog Sep 27 '18 at 15:27
  • @MikeHarris if you do reach a US immigration officer on US soil without a passport (say, you lost it in the plane on the way from Europe), they cannot possibly deny you entry if all you have is the passport card. Even if you have no documents at all, you can declare yourself a US citizen and must then be provided with an opportunity to prove your citizenship before an immigration judge. So the requirement to carry a passport book can only be enforced through airlines, actual immigration officers cannot demand one. – JonathanReez Sep 27 '18 at 15:46
  • @phoog unless there's a penalty for violating that rule, it is pretty much impossible to enforce. Same for entering and leaving the US without a US passport - there's no actual penalty for that. – JonathanReez Sep 27 '18 at 15:50
  • @JonathanReez they can -- and will -- actually demand one; they just have to do a bit more paperwork if the US citizen fails to present it. Also to get back on topic, in Ireland or pretty much any country, the authorities have to admit you if you can prove you are a citizen of that country. But that doesn't stop them from making regulations requiring (or at least purporting to require) specific documents. And, as you note, airlines will generally honor those regulations meticulously, even if the government itself cannot. – phoog Sep 27 '18 at 15:51
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    @JonathanReez "unless there's a penalty for violating that rule, it is pretty much impossible to enforce": sure. I suppose that this incident would have ended without too much fuss had the traveler said "I don't have it." But I don't know that's the case, and the possibility that there is a penalty is not entirely farfetched. – phoog Sep 27 '18 at 15:52
  • @phoog There's no penalty in Ireland for this – Crazydre Sep 27 '18 at 18:37
  • Their duty is also to check for fake documents, maybe he was more comfortable doing it for the passport? After all, because you traveled to the US you must have had it at some point. Did he actually tell you that you can't get in without it, or did he just politely request to see it? Maybe he wanted to see some stamps to verify your claim? We can't really know, but its not uncommon for them to want more information than absolutely necessary to get their results. – PlasmaHH Sep 28 '18 at 08:08
  • It may be as simple as the passport number being on the database the airline provides of passages, and they wanting to know if everyone from a flight has been processed. – Ian Ringrose Sep 28 '18 at 09:09

4 Answers4

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As an Irish citizen, you have the absolute right to enter Ireland. The immigration officer cannot possibly deny you entry, as long as you produce a document that shows you're in fact an Irish citizen - and the passport card clearly shows that. Therefore you have the absolute right to only produce your passport card and refuse to provide any other document. It might delay your border crossing though, so personally I'd just show my passport if I actually had one with me.

JonathanReez
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  • There are no absolute rights to anything in Ireland. The first statement of your answer is just factually wrong. (Source: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government_in_ireland/irish_constitution_1/constitution_fundamental_rights.html). – illustro Oct 02 '18 at 09:44
  • @illustro not as long Ireland is a member of the EU and as such a subject of the ECJ. Being able to enter your own country is fundamental right that can only be taken away by stripping your citizenship. – JonathanReez Oct 02 '18 at 15:31
  • The constitutional position in Ireland is that there are no absolute rights. Articles 52 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights (the document that actually lays out what they are) states that the fundamental rights must be interpreted in harmony with the constitutional traditions common to the member states. In Ireland’s case that includes its constitutional position on the absoluteness of any rights. – illustro Oct 02 '18 at 15:38
  • Article 52 also allows those rights to be limited by laws of the relevant jurisdictions – illustro Oct 02 '18 at 15:39
  • @illustro if you refuse your own citizen entry over only having the passport card, you can expect huge public outroar and most likely a lost ECJ case for compensation over your troubles. It's not happening no matter what the border guards might try to tell you. – JonathanReez Oct 02 '18 at 15:48
  • there is an important difference in law between an absolute right and a limited right. If you posses an absolute right to something the state cannot prevent or delay you from exercising that right. In the case of entry into a country they can (for a variety of reasons) delay your entry if you are a citizen of the country. These reasons can include verifying that you had the proper travel documents for your trip. In the case of Ireland (the context of this question) the difference between a fundamental right and an absolute right is important. – illustro Oct 02 '18 at 15:52
  • @illustro for all practical intents and purposes, there's absolutely no chance of an Irish citizen being refused entry to Ireland as of 2018. Arguing about the constitutional rights is a distraction. – JonathanReez Oct 02 '18 at 15:57
  • the question isn’t being asked about being denied access. It’s asking was the Border agent allowed to *delay* access in the way that they did. The answer to can they delay is an important distinction, and is not addressed by your answer. It’s also misleading because of the use of the word absolute, which is has a specific legal meaning in this context. – illustro Oct 02 '18 at 16:06
  • @illustro yes and I explicitly mention you can indeed be delayed. There's no country where that's not the case, even if their citizens do have an absolute right in the full sense of it – JonathanReez Oct 02 '18 at 16:16
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The Passport Card is valid only for travel WITHIN the EU/EEA/CH.

I've had this same issue. Was returning to Dublin on a flight from Moscow. Was asked where I was coming from (which was fairly obvious as there was only one flight coming in at that time).

I'm a Canadian dual-citizen, so it would be handy to travel to there or the US on my Canadian passport and return to Ireland with the card that lives in my wallet. Pain in the backside, and I don't really understand the point of it, but that's the way she goes.

EDIT: Here is the link to the DFA page stating the same: https://www.dfa.ie/passportcard/

Richard
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  • In very Irish fashion, when I offered to dig the passport out of my carry-on bag, the guard said it was fine but to remember this for next time. :) – Richard Sep 27 '18 at 15:49
  • Do you know whether there is a statute or regulation or other legal act that imposes this restriction? I have had trouble finding any relevant acts online. – phoog Sep 27 '18 at 15:55
  • I don't. And under EU freedom of movement I have the absolute right to go anywhere claimed by any EU member state. I'm thinking I might challenge them on it next time I return from outside the EU... – Richard Sep 27 '18 at 15:58
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    EU freedom of movement, however, arguably does not apply to an Irish citizen entering Ireland from a non-EU territory. The terms of your admission would be governed by Irish law, not EU law. But under Irish law, really any evidence of nationality should be accepted, as noted by JonathanReez, especially, because it is a secure document, the passport card. – phoog Sep 27 '18 at 16:18
  • @Richard This answer is wrong. You can enter Ireland from anywhere as an Irish citizen, and the same goes for EU citizens with their national IDs. Also, the passport Card is not limited to the EU/EEA, but can be used for Albania, Bosnia, Montenegro, overseas France, Moldova, North Cyprus and Serbia as well. So the officers saying a passport book is required are plain wrong, period – Crazydre Sep 27 '18 at 16:34
  • @Richard To make it clear, what the DFA says on the matter doesn't matter, as it is a fundamental right of an Irish citizen to enter Ireland, and again there are non EU-/EFTA states accepting the passport card – Crazydre Sep 27 '18 at 16:39
  • @Coke Well, it appears to be the opinion of the DFA, who issues the card, that it is only valid in and for travel between those 32 countries. Furthermore, it is the opinion of the BMU that a passport is required of entering Ireland from any country other than the 31 other countries (they also require ID for travel within the CTA). As someone entering, you hold none of the cards, pardon the pun. – Richard Sep 27 '18 at 17:01
  • @Richard Whos' BMU? Furthermore, check-in staff at Airports go by the TIMATIC database, which would state if there was such a restriction, but it doesn't. Instead it says any proof of nationality can be used when arriving from the UK, while the passport card can be used in General. – Crazydre Sep 27 '18 at 17:02
  • @Coke Border Management Unit - a subagency of the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service. – Richard Sep 27 '18 at 17:03
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    @Richard Well, is there any penalty for only carrying the passport card? Like I said, any airline should board you given the TIMATIC info. In Addition, Swedish law also states the national ID is only valid in the EU/Schengen (pre-2015, Schengen only) which does mean you won't be allowed (by Swedish border police) to exit Sweden directly to e.g. Serbia. Nonetheless, you can never be refused entry or penalised when arriving in Sweden from outside the EU/Schengen (ie the other direction) and all countries accepting the Swedish ID care nothing about this retarded Swedish legislation – Crazydre Sep 27 '18 at 17:06
  • @Richard If Ireland had exit checks, I can imagine this being a problem (with you not being allowed to exit for the wrong country), but as they only check on entry, and you can never be refused entry to your own country, it doesn't apply here. – Crazydre Sep 27 '18 at 17:07
  • @Coke I'm not saying the law makes sense, but this is how it is enforced. – Richard Sep 27 '18 at 17:09
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    @Richard Enforced how, other than possibly being scolded? That's the whole point, they can't, and neither won't the airline, because their info says the passport card can be used to enter from anywhere – Crazydre Sep 27 '18 at 17:09
  • @Coke Well, it seems like the OP was refused admission until the passport book was produced. – Richard Sep 27 '18 at 17:10
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    @Richard I'm telling you it is against international law to refuse entry to your own citizen. The border agent can say whatever they want, you can never be refused entry and sent away from your own country. Thinking about it, I once dealt with a similar retard of an officer at ARN, who was bamboozled that I'd flown KIV-KBP-ARN with my Swedish ID, and took 45 seconds to send me on – Crazydre Sep 27 '18 at 17:12
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    @Richard I know the rhetoric "the ID's only valid in the EU/Schengen; you really need a passport to travel outside", bla bla bla. None of that matters; because again you're a citizen of that country and so it is your property, and your right to enter it. They can talk rubbish and be morons about it, but that's the end of it – Crazydre Sep 27 '18 at 17:14
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    @Coke It is against international law to deny entry to a citizen. A country certainly can, however, force you to prove that citizenship in a way national law deems sufficient. It can also arrest, detain, or prosecute citizens for offences related to their entry (reporting requirements, customs infractions, illegal travel or activites while abroad [so long as there are such laws in the country]). The only thing it can't do is turn them away. – Owen Sep 28 '18 at 09:07
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    @Owen An Irish passport card unambiguously proves citizenship, and there's no Penalty for using it rather than a passport book regardless of Point of origin – Crazydre Sep 28 '18 at 15:18
  • @Coke In Ireland you don't own your passport. The Minister for Foreign Affairs does. – illustro Oct 01 '18 at 08:27
  • @user84713 Yeah, but your nationality is your nationality – Crazydre Oct 01 '18 at 08:30
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It is first important to note that there are no absolute rights to anything in Ireland. All rights can be limited by Acts of the Oireachtas, or by relevant Statutory Instruments.

Irish citizens are entitled to enter Ireland, regardless of the document they use.

However, you are required to use the passport card number when checking in online if you intend to use it (at which point the airline can refuse to carry you if your flight originates outside of the EU).

If anything, this makes sense for logistical reasons:

  • Airlines have to register their passenger manifest with the country they are travelling to (including the document numbers of the passengers on the flight)
  • From a security standpoint, if a person arrives at immigration,without a travel document that matches a document from a registered passenger manifest, a security failure/breach may have occurred (either in an Irish Airport, or the originating airport).
    • This would need to be rectified. The only way to understand if this has occurred is to ask for the document you actually traveled on (in this case your passport book)

Additionally, your passport isn't actually your property, it's the property of the Minister for Foreign Affairs. As such they can request to see it, if only to ensure that you haven't misplaced it on your travels.

There is no requirement that entry to Ireland be given without any delay upon proof of Irish citizenship. They can't refuse your entry (as an Irish Citizen), but they can certainly delay it if they have a reasonable justification. For example:

  • you may need to be quarantined if you arrived from a country with an active pandemic outbreak to ensure public safety
  • you may be the subject of an arrest warrant
  • you may be the subject of extradition proceedings
  • ensuring there hasn't been a security breach in the air travel system

What would have happened if I refused or lost my actual passport?

If you lost your actual passport you can tell them that, and you will likely need to make a statement to the Gardai about the lost passport while you are still in the airport (lost passports are at risk of being forged and used to facilitate illegal entry into the country).

If you refused then they are able to escalate it to the Gardai, and a Garda can demand to see your passport (failing to comply with Garda orders is an arrest-able offence under the Criminal justice (Public Order) Act).

Are they allowed ask where I have traveled from?

Of course. There are different customs requirements and regulations depending on your point of origin.

illustro
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  • Welcome to the site! – David Richerby Sep 28 '18 at 14:58
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    @user84713 "However, you are required to use the passport card number when checking in online if you intend to use it (at which point the airline can refuse to carry you if your flight originates outside of the EU)." Nope, because they check documentation using the TIMATIC database, which states teh passpor Card can be used in General, not jus when flying from an EU/Schengen state – Crazydre Sep 28 '18 at 15:12
  • Welcome to the site! Please note that Garda officers cannot demand anything from you. What they can do is strictly regulated. They could probably search you given that you're inside a secure airport zone, but they couldn't demand that you show them your passport instead of your passport card. – JonathanReez Sep 28 '18 at 15:26
  • As for using a different document for online check in, see https://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/79636/for-uk-usa-bound-flights-are-details-entered-during-online-check-in-such-as-da – JonathanReez Sep 28 '18 at 15:28
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    @Coke You keep going on about Timatic. Whether or not an airline can do something is a different question to whether or not Timatic will advise them to do that thing. – David Richerby Sep 28 '18 at 15:31
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    @DavidRicherby All handling agents I've spoken to (Swissport, Dnata, Aviator, Menzies, TAV Georgia and Pegasus Ground handling at various airports) have said that TIMATIC has the final say as far as they're concerned – Crazydre Sep 28 '18 at 15:37
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    @Coke As an Irish Citizen travelling from Ireland to the UK I do not legally have to provide any ID beyond a work pass (which just has a name and a picture on it), however airlines can and do require higher forms of identification to travel with them (see Ryanair and their policy on requiring passports to travel). – illustro Sep 28 '18 at 15:43
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    @JonathanReez That question you linked is restricted to the US and UK, and the accepted answer explicitly only deals with the US/UK regulations. – illustro Sep 28 '18 at 15:45
  • @user84713 yes but the accepted answer works for pretty much any country in the world - nobody cares which document you use for check in. That someone actually does is a myth. – JonathanReez Sep 28 '18 at 15:49
  • @JonathanReez sure they can. Section 5 of the act I mentioned defines offensive conduct as "In this section “offensive conduct” means any unreasonable behaviour which, having regard to all the circumstances, is likely to cause serious offence or serious annoyance to any person who is, or might reasonably be expected to be, aware of such behaviour.". The Garda could reasonably view your refusal to produce your passport book (which you have on you) when requested by a Border Agent while passing through the immigration section as being unreasonable. The then instruct you to desist from your ... – illustro Sep 28 '18 at 15:49
  • ..refusal and you have then committed an offense if you fail to comply. – illustro Sep 28 '18 at 15:49
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    @Coke OK but if your position is "In practice, this won't happen because the airlines rely on Timatic, which says XYZ", then it would be much clearer if you said that. – David Richerby Sep 28 '18 at 15:49
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    @DavidRicherby Point taken; that is indeed what I meant – Crazydre Sep 28 '18 at 23:04
  • @JonathanReez Doing some more reading on that accepted answer...it's just not correct. I travel all the time and I have never had my passport or identification scanned at the gate. What is scanned at the gate is my boarding pass. I also exclusively check-in online, and as a result my documents are not scanned at check-in either. As such, the only way the airline knows what document I've traveled with is by what I entered during the online check-in. Combine this with the EU directive (Pg2, Article 3, https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2004:261:0024:0027:EN:PDF) that ... – illustro Oct 02 '18 at 09:05
  • ... requires airlines to transmit the document and document numbers that passengers use to travel to the relevant member state, means that countries in the EU do, in fact, care about what document was used to check-in. – illustro Oct 02 '18 at 09:06
  • @illustro if they're not scanning your document then the country in question doesn't really care about APIs data. Please come back when you have a data point showing that entering the wrong passport details caused you some issues. – JonathanReez Oct 02 '18 at 15:30
  • @JonathanReez to clarify, every single time I enter Ireland (after arriving from anywhere) my travel document is scanned. Similarly if I arrive in the UK from any place that is not in the CTA, my trace document is scanned on arrival. I have had situations occur (similar but not the same as the one from the OP) after I had entered my travel document incorrectly and I have had to explain that to Border agents. – illustro Oct 02 '18 at 15:42
  • @illustro but you were still allowed to enter despite the error? – JonathanReez Oct 02 '18 at 15:46
  • @JonathanReez yes, however my entry was delayed because of it. Which is the point I am making. It also proves that the border Agents *do* care about what document you use (which is directly contradictory to your comment saying “nobody cares”) – illustro Oct 02 '18 at 15:54
  • @illustro nobody cares on the sense that you won't be denied entry over this. Hence nobody cares. – JonathanReez Oct 02 '18 at 15:55
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The officer you dealt with was wrong, and based on the answers and comments, this is depressingly common. It's also happened to me (I'm on a Swedish national ID card) when departing Zurich airport for Moscow (in transit to Tbilisi): I said out loud to the border police (well, in German) "why do you even care? I can exit Switzerland after all", whereby she said they'd be in trouble if I was refused entry to Russia. I then said "well how can I be refused entry without trying to gain it to begin with?" and that it's the Airline that's responsible, not Swiss police. She then got so irritated at me that she simply sent me on.

An Irish passport card proves your Irish citizenship, so you have the absolute right to enter from anywhere using it alone, and you're not required to even bring your passport book.

•What would have happened if I refused or lost my actual passport?

Nothing should happen, but clearly a lot of INIS agents are ignorant and may be bamboozled at it and possibly leave you standing there for a minute or two, but nothing else.

•As a citizen of the country, am I obliged to tell the immigration official where I was arriving from?

No you're not

Crazydre
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