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As I said in this question, I enabled tpm 2.0 on my pc (a custom build with windows 10 on it), and, apparently, this messed up the filesystem or something and I get “WHEA_UNCORRECTABLE_ERROR” and “CLOCK_WATCHDOG_TIMEOUT” after a few seconds or minutes of using it.

No one was able to help me fixing the problem, the best option I was told to do was to clone my ssd (to retrieve the data I wanted) and run a clean install.

QUESTION

My question is: what did I do wrong? How can I prevent something like this? Because my thought process was:

  1. Went to windows update
  2. I saw that I had to enable tpm 2.0 to update to Windows 11
  3. I enabled it, by going to the BIOS (I have a MEG Z590 ACE as motherboard)
  4. Windows started crashing

But I never read any disclaimer or anything that told me to be careful or to not enable the tpm 2.0: was I just unlucky or could have I done something to prevent it? Should I do more research in general before messing with the BIOS? Should I have known what TPM 2.0 was?

  • Note: I’m not asking how to solve the problem, I gave up on it. I’m asking how to avoid doing a similar error in the future.
selenio34
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  • When enabling TPM did it also enable secure boot or UEFI boot modes? – Mokubai Feb 13 '23 at 11:05
  • @Mokubai I’m not sure how to check that. I can tell you that to enable it, i went to settings->security->trusted computing->security device support. I had to enable “security device support”, it was disabled. I followed this tutorial – selenio34 Feb 13 '23 at 11:13
  • Please read your own user's manual and find out whether or not you have enabled Secure Boot as asked above. This is independent of TPM settings. Please do NOT direct users here to YT videos and, again, that video has nothing to do with what was asked. The best way forward is to install Windows 11 from scratch after confirming all its requirements are met. Trying to upgrade from Windows 10 may not work properly and it won't be "clean". Yes, installing OS, softwares and user tweaks and recovering backups takes time but much less than what you already wasted. – ChanganAuto Feb 13 '23 at 13:51
  • @ChanganAuto I have not enabled Secure Boot. The reason why I linked the tutorial (and I also wrote all the steps I did to enable the tpm 2.0) is to show that it’s the only thing I did, and because I thought that maybe by changing those settings I did something to the thing you were talking about. Before doing the steps, I had no problems with using windows 10. After enabling tpm 2.0 with the steps I wrote before, I started having crashes. That’s all I know. Reading the whole manual of my motherboard isn’t an option, since I’m pretty ignorant on PCs, that’s why I was asking here – selenio34 Feb 13 '23 at 14:33
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    Windows 10 works in either Legacy ("BIOS") mode or UEFI mode (preferred) so, consequently, it must work also with Secure Boot disabled. Windows 11 supports UEFI mode ONLY and strictly requires TPM and Secure Boot enabled. So, again, you MUST fulfill ALL its requirements. Now, the important part of the user's manual is the one about UEFI ("BIOS") settings. Ignoring this isn't an option. If you don't feel competent to manage your firmware option and install Windows 11 then please ask someone who is (or keep Windows 10), it's as simple as that. – ChanganAuto Feb 13 '23 at 14:44
  • @ChanganAuto ok thanks. One question: I don’t understand what windows 11 has to do with my current problems, since I wasn’t able to update it and thus my problems were “windows 10 related”; you mentioned it to prevent future problems, correct? – selenio34 Feb 13 '23 at 22:44
  • @ChanganAuto also, so your answer to my question is really to avoid custom builds and changing bios settings unless I have the time and the will to do it right? Because this question was to understand how to avoid future problems, not to solve previous ones (even if I’m obviously glad you helped me) – selenio34 Feb 13 '23 at 22:47
  • Yes, I mentioned Windows 11 because this stems from one of the conditions for upgrading or installing Windows 11 and you noticed this problem after enabling TPM2.0. Now, both error messages are as generic as they can be and can be caused by multiple factors both hardware and/or software, drivers (missing or buggy), etc. and even (very likely the UEFI itself; even new machines often require firmware updates). It's next to impossible to troubleshoot remotely even with a knowledgeable person on the other side let alone with someone who didn't install the OS and doesn't care about UEFI settings. – ChanganAuto Feb 13 '23 at 22:52
  • When installing/upgrading OSes one must be familiar with its own firmware, know when and how to update it safely if it must be and also check for drivers updates, etc. One or more should be done here to troubleshoot the problem. Also, as already commented, avoid overclocking and other departures from the optimal settings as defined by the manufacturer, only very experienced users can try it safely because experienced users should know how to revert it when things go wrong. (...) – ChanganAuto Feb 13 '23 at 23:08
  • (...) Not mentioned yet and not really something that would came up in google is the possibility of Windows having been installed in Legacy/"BIOS" mode. That being the case it's the most likely cause of the errors after enabling TPM. It shouldn't have been but we don't know and you don't know either, do you? You may want to ask your friend. BTW, that alone prevents upgrading to Windows 11, reasons above, in bold. – ChanganAuto Feb 13 '23 at 23:11
  • There's no point in having a "chat". Just because that option is automatically offered after a long string of comments users don't have to use it. – ChanganAuto Feb 13 '23 at 23:19
  • @ChanganAuto thank you very much for the detailed comments. If you want to write it as an answer I’ll accept it (both here and in the other question, since you helped me on both). I’ll ask my friend, but since I don’t have time for dealing with solving tech problems (PCs remain just a tool for me, until I’ll decide I want to know them in detail), I opted for solutions that let me avoid dealing with these type of problems. You helped me confirm this decision.

    (by the way the chat thing wasn’t intentional, you werr already exhaustive enough)

     – selenio34 Feb 13 '23 at 23:19

1 Answers1

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Really it wasn't; a TPM is not supposed to cause such issues (i.e. there is no specific combination of options that "must be avoided").

Should I have known what TPM 2.0 was?

Before changing any option you should have looked into what the option does, at least in broad terms.

For example, does it only enable something new, or does it change something from one mode to another (like how enabling AHCI would disable IDE-emulation)? Does it enable a whole new device, or just a mode in an existing device? What is the purpose of that option (i.e. why does Windows need it)?

  • The TPM is a separate internal device that is normally passive but can be used by the firmware and/or by the OS (which has drivers for the TPM like for other devices). It doesn't normally change the basic operation of the system.

  • While some systems have a discrete TPM (a completely separate chip) that the option would simply enable/disable, many other systems emulate the TPM through a special mode in the CPU with help from the system's firmware – also known as an "fTPM". Intel PTT is an example of an fTPM; AMD has its own.

  • Features that are emulated through system firmware have a greater chance of causing trouble (see also: "SMM mode"), one specific example being the AMD Ryzen fTPM implementation causing frequent CPU stalls (they released a firmware upgrade to fix that). Having "watchdog timeout" indications from the OS might be a sign of fTPM bugs.

  • The purpose of a TPM is, mainly, to store keys in a way that they're permanently bound to the system and cannot be exported from it. Therefore it makes very little sense for a "To Go" portable OS to be using the host machine's TPM for anything, although it may be for the purpose of verifying Secure Boot, but practically nothing else as it contradicts the purpose of a portable OS. Most likely the requirement would not be present in official Windows 11 "To Go" images, if such a thing existed.

u1686_grawity
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