Is it legal to steal the American flag from the moon?

Question

I'm not quite sure whether the question is correctly answered here or whether it belongs to Law Stack Exchange.

Assuming I can fly into space, more precisely to the moon and back again.

What laws forbid me to collect the American flag (regardless of its condition) or any other object of a space nation and bring it back to earth?

Would that be "simple" theft?

If the country is important because of its laws, I would like to know from the perspective of the USA, China and Germany.

It'll be even more interesting if such party brought back the flag then returned it to NASA. Then it's not even a theft, but, an "unauthorized relocation"? — user3528438, Jun 30 '20 at 18:27
@user3528438 NASA kindly requests that you stay a minimum of 2km from any of their landing sites. — Russell Borogove, Jun 30 '20 at 18:41
Arguably, it would not be a theft, since the flag is abandoned property. It could even be seen as picking up litter :-) — jamesqf, Jul 01 '20 at 03:56
I think it would be an international incident, not persecuted under criminal law. As long as you don't land in any of the listed countries, that is. — Mast, Jul 01 '20 at 06:05
@jamesqf - in that case, there's a public park in Sheffield (UK) full of abandoned Henry Moore sculptures; I'm off to hire a flatbed truck and a crane... — Spratty, Jul 01 '20 at 08:12
@jamesqf Is it abandoned property though? Parts of Apollo landing sites are still operational (eg retroreflextors). Even if you go with the space-as-international-waters legal interpretation, then "salvaging" Apollo sites would still not be ok — Dragongeek, Jul 01 '20 at 10:36
Depends entirely on how expensive a lawyer you can afford. Or perhaps on how large an army you can afford. — Carl Witthoft, Jul 01 '20 at 10:45
@user3528438 Hey, you forgot this on the moon. Don't litter! See also this question. — gerrit, Jul 01 '20 at 15:05
Possible duplicate of Can I borrow a lunar rover? or very strongly related. — James Jenkins, Jul 01 '20 at 15:24
@CarlWitthoft If you can afford to fund a lunar mission, I'm sure a decent team of lawyers is well within your means. And probably a sizable army as well. — Darrel Hoffman, Jul 01 '20 at 17:43
Side question: Hasn't the flag just faded into a white piece of fabric by now? — LarsTech, Jul 01 '20 at 22:22
@Spratty: Very much doubt that any park in the UK could be considered abandoned. However, having looked at a few pictures of them, I could certainly make a argument that removing them would be litter cleanup :-) — jamesqf, Jul 02 '20 at 17:11
The title of this question needs an edit - if it's legal, then it's not stealing... — MikeB, Jul 03 '20 at 18:15
I get the feeling that space piracy is one of those topics that most space-faring nations don't legislate on in the hope that they will never have to. — Sean Condon, Jul 03 '20 at 22:31

Russell Borogove · Accepted Answer · 2020-07-02T13:26:57.137

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How to Protect and Preserve the Historic and Scientific Value of U.S. Government Lunar Artifacts summarizes the 1967 Outer Space Treaty thusly:

These recommendations are consistent with international law, including the following: The 1967 U.N. Outer Space Treaty (OST), which provides, in part:

That outer space shall be free for exploration and use by all states;

That there should be freedom of scientific investigation in outer space;

That outer space is not subject to national appropriation;

That parties to the treaty retain jurisdiction and control over objects launched into outer space that are listed on their registries, while they are in outer space and that ownership of objects launched into outer space is not affected by their presence in outer space or by their return to Earth;

That nations be guided by the principle of cooperation and mutual assistance in lunar exploration and use, with due regard to the corresponding interests of other parties to the treaty; and That international consultations must take place prior to the commencement of an activity that any party has reason to believe would cause potentially harmful interference with activities of other parties.

Article VIII of the treaty is the relevant portion here; this is the text: enter image description here

So all parties to the OST agree that US flags on the moon remain the property of the United States government. These include the US, China, and Germany (as well as over 100 other nations).

Note that even if the 1967 treaty were not operative, you would not be able to successfully retrieve a US flag from an Apollo landing site and maintain ownership of it; the US government has many more lawyers than you do, and would likely deploy as many as needed to reclaim the flag.

edited Jul 02 '20 at 13:26

answered Jun 30 '20 at 18:28

Russell Borogove

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Disagree with the last paragraph. Whatever country you bring the flag back to, it will have to decide if it wants to use its law enforcement and courts to take the flag away from you. If you return to the U.S., the federal government will certainly take the flag away from you. Germany would take the flag away because it is a close ally of the U.S. (more...) – DrSheldon Jun 30 '20 at 21:34
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Even though they do not care much for the U.S., Russia and China would take the flag away because failing to do so would set a precedent on their own assets on the moon. Your best bet would be to go to a country like Iran or North Korea, who have no regard for U.S. property, would be unlikely to cooperate with the U.S, and would even see having the flag there as an act of defiance against the U.S. – DrSheldon Jun 30 '20 at 21:40
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Ah, but then Iran or North Korea has ownership of the flag, not OP. :) – Russell Borogove Jun 30 '20 at 21:44
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@DrSheldon more about flag-based acts of defiance in How does one buy a burnable American flag in Tehran? – uhoh Jun 30 '20 at 22:23
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The last sentence is indeed a bit off. Whoever has enough money lying around to launch their own moon-program just to grab a flag should also be able to hire a functionally infinite amount of lawyers. – mlk Jul 01 '20 at 13:45
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You have established that the flag is US property. But what law prevents me from taking US property abandoned in outer space without use and returning it to NASA (no intent to keep it = no theft)? If an NPS or USFS ranger loses an item of federal property on public lands, I find it and return it to their office, I hope I'm not prosecuted for theft. How is the situation in the question any different? See also this question, except that NASA has no damage if I take the flag, as (unlike reflectors) they have no use and can't be seen from Earth. – gerrit Jul 01 '20 at 15:11
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The same treaty. “Parties retain jurisdiction and control”. The flags are not “abandoned” under the terms of the OST. – Russell Borogove Jul 01 '20 at 16:12
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@gerrit The flag isn't lost, though. You don't have the right to move someone else's property, even temporarily with "good" intent. Each jurisdiction has its own flavor, but for example: https://law.justia.com/codes/kansas/2014/chapter-21/article-58/section-21-5803/ – Matthew Read Jul 01 '20 at 16:16
@MatthewRead Right, for completion the article could mention why it would be illegal even if OP returns flag to NASA. – gerrit Jul 01 '20 at 16:30
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The US has lawyers, and also a rather big army when they run out of patience. – Thorbjørn Ravn Andersen Jul 02 '20 at 06:54
Is the Moon considered outerspace? I thought it would be stuff in orbits rather than on another celestial/solar system object (moon, planet, asteroid etc) – AncientSwordRage Jul 02 '20 at 10:29
@Pureferret "A State Party to the Treaty on whose registry an object launched into outer space is carried shall retain jurisdiction and control over such object, and over any personnel thereof, while in outer space or on a celestial body." (emphasis added) https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Outer_Space_Treaty_of_1967 – called2voyage Jul 02 '20 at 13:40
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@gerrit I would think a more appropriate comparison would be to take a ceremonial statue from a mountain top and bring it back to city hall. You didn't "steal" it, but don't expect them to be thankful. If someone towed your car when you were at work and brought it to your home, would you just shrug it off? – Aubreal Jul 02 '20 at 15:45
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@mlk +1 for the phrase "functionally infinite". First time I heard that :) – N4v Jul 02 '20 at 19:17
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If what they did with moon rocks being sold on eBay is any indication, you'd probably get a SWAT team busting down your door. – Michael Hampton Jul 03 '20 at 03:22
Doesn't this paragraph mean that you would be allowed to build an opaque dome around the reflector on the moon? You're not doing anything to the reflector, you're just putting your own thing on the moon, which just so happens to be around it. And then others couldn't even do anything with the reflector anymore, because they would need to either remove your dome or dig through the moon soil, which is not a particularly good idea either. – Fabian Röling Jul 03 '20 at 07:22
@DrSheldon: North Korea is a signatory to the OTS, probably in order to protect their satellites...probably reluctant to agree that left in space means “free for the taking” – jmoreno Jul 03 '20 at 07:24
@AlexandreAubrey No, I wouldn't shrug it off, but rather than theft it would be what, vandalism? Where is the line between returning lost property, moving people's stuff without permission, or damaging a cultural monument? The moon is still so special that anything left there is essentially a monument. I read about an incident in which hikers collected trash in Big Bend National Park (Texas), brought it to the NPS office, and were then told they shouldn't have because it was 100 years old trash and therefore considered a historical monument. At least, US flag on the moon would be for sure. – gerrit Jul 03 '20 at 07:56
@MatthewRead I know I'm not allowed to move other people's property, and moving the US flag on the moon is arguably damaging a historical monument, but I can imagine cases where the line between returning lost property to owner or police vs. moving someone's property without their permission may be argued in court. The answer isn't wrong, and I'm not saying it would be legal; but the answer would be more complete explaining why even taking it and bringing it to NASA would be illegal (even if not theft). – gerrit Jul 03 '20 at 08:09
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If “retains jurisdiction and control” isn’t clear enough for you, nothing I can add to the answer is going to help. – Russell Borogove Jul 03 '20 at 08:28
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@Thorbjørn Ravn Andersen "Grandfather, tell me again the story of how the earth surface became radioactively contaminated" - "Well there was this one guy, who really liked that flag from the moon and didn't want to give it away..." – findusl Jul 04 '20 at 00:48

score 18 · Answer 2 · answered Jun 30 '20 at 23:02

Possession is 9/10 of the law. If you somehow get there and steal the flag, it's not like any Space Marines are going to jump out from behind a crater rim. Law needs to be enforceable.

Maintaining ownership of the flag is a different issue. You can kiss your chance of being free on US soil goodbye, especially if you're a citizen. Laws would be found, made up, or stretched so that you could be incarcerated and the flag seized--although since the flag is US property, you could just be charged with theft on the order of the millions (or billions) of dollars of effort that the flag represents or the equally astronomical cost that the flag represents in launch costs.

Now, if you're not a citizen or request asylum from a US-hostile superpower, you might be able to live out your days in political asylum in a Snowden-esque situation but realistically today's superpowers wouldn't want to stir up animosity and offer asylum to someone who stole this piece of human history. Id wager the only "safe" places would be countries which are actively hostile towards the USA (like NK), and even then, they'd probably simply ransom you and the flag to the USA for political concessions.

@Uwe : I'm sure they can find something already existing, in the style of unauthorized interference between the diplomacy of the countries, or triggering an international diplomatic incident, or something like that (defacing a flag of a foreign country the local country has good relations with, is often persecuted as a hate crime or incitement, or whatever). — vsz, Jul 01 '20 at 10:48
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. — called2voyage, Jul 02 '20 at 17:25

score 3 · Answer 3 · edited Jul 03 '20 at 22:16

It may be that if your country is in a war with the USA, you may claim the flag as a war trophy. If your army manages to defeat the US, they may as well accept the loss of this particular flag.

Otherwise, it is property of the US government.

Both the US government (as stated by NASA) and the general public considers it a rather valuable asset.

In most jurisdictions, leaving something somewhere that is your property doesn't stop it from being your property. There are few exceptions and the law may or may not provide you with a practical means of defending your property, but in the general case one can expect to find their car where they have parked it overnight. Well, almost always.

The Outer Space Treaty just explicitly extends this basic understanding of property to space.

score 2 · Answer 4 · answered Jul 01 '20 at 14:36

There are similar situations on Earth where objects were taken and the original owners have been unable to get them back, such as the The Parthenon Marbles (also known as the Elgin Marbles).

So while the law may make it technically theft once you have it and put it on display the United States may find it difficult to get back. Many countries are unwilling to get involved in that kind of dispute because they themselves have a lot of stuff that others could lay legitimate claim to, so for example extradition or local legal redress may be tricky.

Ownership of the Elgin Marbles is not the best example to use here - if that was a simple legal matter it would have been put to rest years ago: "the original owners" as you put it, are not nearly as clear as the "original owners" of this flag, although both do partially rest on a definition of "abandoned". — MikeB, Jul 03 '20 at 18:22

score 1 · Answer 5 · answered Jul 03 '20 at 21:44

Yes, it would be simple theft.

In most countries whose laws are related to those here in the UK, there can be no thing which doesn't have an owner, and taking that thing without permission constitutes theft.

Trying to identify the owner is quite different.

Trying to enforce the law is also quite different.

Neither alters the fact that if it's a thing, it has an owner. That NASA left the flag hanging about the moon doesn't stop it being NASA's property.

Is it legal to steal the American flag from the moon?

5 Answers5