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In the planning of the US missions to the moon was planting the UN flag ever discussed? It just seems to me that would have been a great public relations move.

Machavity
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MaxW
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    The whole point of the Apollo missions was to demonstrate U.S. industrial/technological (and an implied military) superiority over the then Soviet Union in the midst of the cold war. Planting the U.S. flag was in a way the whole point. However, a plaque on the Apollo 11 descent stage reads, in part, "we came in peace for all mankind" - a more inclusive and more enduring message than planting any flag. – Anthony X Jun 08 '19 at 18:38
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    @AnthonyX And the flag's blank now, anyway. – wizzwizz4 Jun 09 '19 at 16:29
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    @AnthonyX - No one on earth had any doubt about which country the astronauts were from. My point was that planting a flag is such an act of colonialism. – MaxW Jun 09 '19 at 16:35
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    @MaxW My point is that you have to look at it from a 1960s cold war perspective, where I think you are looking at it from a 2010s point of view and today's cultural values. It all made perfect sense in the context of the time. – Anthony X Jun 09 '19 at 16:44
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    And it was a US Government agency. Today a return to the Moon would be more of an international effort and so the UN flag would be more apropos. – Oscar Lanzi Jun 09 '19 at 17:24
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    @AnthonyX - Perhaps I do have a 2010s point of view, but I watched the landing live. – MaxW Jun 09 '19 at 21:03
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    @AnthonyX: American astronauts planting a UN flag would have been just as clear a demonstration of superiority/victory in the race. It could even have been seen as a stronger one: ostentatious humility in victory is often used as a way of rubbing it in. Your point shows why e.g. making the first landing a joint mission would have been unthinkable, but it really doesn’t rule out that a UN flag might have been considered. – Peter LeFanu Lumsdaine Jun 09 '19 at 22:38
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    @OscarLanzi I'd say it would be quite the opposite. Having being tangentially involved in an ESA/NASA mission, there was a committee effort to determine the order and sizes of the 20+ logos on the PowerPoint slides, which was largely proportional to funding paid/received. – user71659 Jun 10 '19 at 01:55
  • @PeterLeFanuLumsdaine given that the UN was regularly bashing the US, there's no way in hell those astronauts would have planted a UN flag. – RonJohn Jun 10 '19 at 02:49
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    a UN flag doesn't make it any less like "colonialism" from a USA flag being planted. Who's the say the UN are the "good guys" just as much as any other flag – Emobe Jun 10 '19 at 10:18
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    The total cost of the Apollo program reported was $25.4 billion in 1973. It was funded using U.S. tax dollars, not U.N. dollars. Also take into consideration that the U.N. is financed almost wholly by the United States anyway so there's little point. The Russians wouldn't have planted the U.N. flag and neither would China had they been the first to land. – Zorkolot Jun 10 '19 at 19:56
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    RE: "The Russians wouldn't have planted the U.N. flag and neither would China had they been the first to land." - exactly. – MaxW Jun 10 '19 at 20:22
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    Welcome! @MaxW, I disagree that it would have been a great PR move. First, these were not stupid people. They knew a good PR move when they saw one. Even today, planting the UN flag would not seem like a great PR move. It's appeasement -- trying to please the reckless and unaccountable beast of international public opinion, which is no way to run a country. Let the UN run a mission to the moon, and then they can put up a flag. Running around at great expense putting up other peoples' flags demonstrates only a willingness to be used. Not popular with Americans, who funded the thing. –  Jun 10 '19 at 22:31
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    a plaque on the Apollo 11 descent stage reads, in part, "we came in peace for all mankind" - a more inclusive and more enduring message than planting any flag. I doubt a message written in English is more inclusive than a world-wide recognised flag. – mgarciaisaia Jun 10 '19 at 22:52
  • @PeterLeFanuLumsdaine The whole rocket was decorated with American flags and the text "USA" or "United States" down the sides. That would make it quite baffling for the astronauts to unveil a UN flag when they got there. – Mohair Jun 11 '19 at 14:58
  • @wizzwizz4, Blank? What? – JPhi1618 Jun 11 '19 at 17:35
  • @JPhi1618 Probably, anyway. – wizzwizz4 Jun 11 '19 at 17:45
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    That "we come in peace" was said while in the middle of dropping 2.5 million tons of cluster bombs on the vietnamese. – Innovine Jul 10 '19 at 18:41

2 Answers2

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No. Planting a flag was the idea of NASA's "Mr. Fix-It", Jack Kinzler, less than 4 months before Apollo 11's launch:

Kinzler believed that the people of the United States would also want to see an American flag to commemorate the enormous achievement of landing a man on the surface of the moon. The original LM design had an American flag painted on the side of the descent stage, but he thought, “That’s not a very effective way to celebrate with an American flag.” Again with the help of McCraw, Kinzler sketched his idea of a freestanding full- size flag on a telescoping flagpole. The entire flag unit fit into a three-foot protective heat shroud attached to the LM ladder, making it accessible to the astronauts on the lunar surface, but not taking up any precious space inside the LM itself.

The committee to whom he suggested the idea turned the entire project over to him. It is clear from the article that Kinzler intended no other flag than a patriotic U.S. flag.

Kinzler's other accomplishments include:

  • Designed and built models for wind tunnel testing for NACA, NASA's predecessor.
  • Chief of Technical Services at Johnson Space Center in Houston.
  • Designed a small maneuvering unit used in Gemini spacewalks.
  • Designed the plaques on the lunar landers ("We come in peace for all mankind...").
  • Designed the golf club head that attached to the lunar sampling scoop, which Alan Shepard used to hit two golf balls on the moon.
  • Designed a sunshade for Skylab because its thermal shield was damaged at launch.
  • NASA distinguished service medal.
  • Obituary
DrSheldon
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    ...and that's today's episode of "Fun With Flags", brought to you by DrSheldon. – DrSheldon Jun 09 '19 at 17:07
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    "the people of the United States would also want to see an American flag" of-course, footage of that flag led to all kind of conspiracies because people don't understand how flags work on the moon, but at least we've all seen the flag. – Mast Jun 09 '19 at 20:24
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    @Mast: Yes, not only did it did lead to conspiracy theories, but Kinzler was quoted as being frustrated by those theories. The last two paragraphs of the obituary link above are about Kinzler's reactions to those theories. – DrSheldon Jun 09 '19 at 21:08
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    The "No" in the beginning of this answer is proven wrong by the NASA source provided with @jaia's answer: "[...] there was some discussion within the agency that a United Nations flag could be used for the flight". – Everyday Astronaut Jul 08 '19 at 12:18
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Yes, it was. According to a comprehensive paper about the Apollo 11 flag, there was even discussion within NASA and its Committee on Symbolic Activities for the First Lunar Landing about this possibility. Astronaut Michael Collins also wrote in Carrying the Fire that the possibility of taking up flags of all nations was also considered and someone even designed a rig to display them. In the end, though, Congress passed a law saying that only the American flag could be used.

jaia
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    Single-line, link-only (or majority link) answers are subject to downvotes and deletion, because of link-rot. Please quote the relevant sections from each link. – RonJohn Jul 05 '19 at 05:17
  • Uhm, maybe I'm missing something, but this appears to be a short answer with two links as provided references. I don't think anything else is required. – PearsonArtPhoto Jul 07 '19 at 02:09
  • I like that the next alternative with 72 votes says the opposite. – Innovine Jul 10 '19 at 18:42
  • @Innovine That was the first answer posted. I didn't have time to reply for a few days. – jaia Jul 10 '19 at 21:31