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Following on from this this question - There is a lot of resistance from the EU and the mainstream media to Poland's proposed changes to the way Judges are selected.

As I understand it, the current system is that new Judges are appointed by the existing Judges, which is very unpopular in Poland as they have been accused of nepotism and corruption, particularly as many of them are the same people who held similar roles when Poland was under Communist rule.

In the proposed system, the top Judges who nominate new judges would be appointed by the government, and this is what is being objected to as it could lead to a bias in the Judiciary in favour of the Governing party.

However - other countries have similar systems, and they are not being told to change by the EU. Wikipedia states that German judges are appointed by the State departments of Justice, and their Federal judges are appointed by ministers and MPs. Similarly the members of the French Constitutional Council are appointed by the president and the presidents of the National Assembly and Senate, and in Spain, the members of the General Council of the Judiciary are elected, half by the Senate and half by the Congress.

So, why are those examples considered different to Poland's proposals?

Martin Schröder
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Nick C
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  • @JonathanReez ah, I didn't see that one! Though neither of the answers there compare with western Europe, and the Hungary one looks like more of a rant than an answer... – Nick C Dec 19 '17 at 11:11
  • Sure, but the question is exactly the same and therefore yours is a dupe. – JonathanReez Dec 19 '17 at 11:22
  • True. I've ticked the "Yep, OK" box to close it. – Nick C Dec 19 '17 at 11:26
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    The aswer to 'why' is primarily because the current governing party was voted on without the content of 'EU and Media' so they are unhappy with the choice that was made. –  Dec 19 '17 at 11:45
  • @9ilsdx9rvj0lo I agree, but then I'm a cynic! – Nick C Dec 19 '17 at 11:52
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    The most important criteria for most German judges is the marks that they get at their university exams and those exams get written by professors of law and not by the government. The Bundesverfassungsgericht who's judges do get picked by politicians don't has it's members picked by the current government coalition but there's an informal system were both the government and the opposition get to appoint some judges. – Christian Dec 19 '17 at 13:50
  • Other countries having similar systems doesn't mean that these systems are particularly good. And the EU is a different entity than France or Germany. And it's always good to look ahead and not back. – jjack Dec 20 '17 at 05:59
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    You are wrong regarding Germany. Judges of the Federal Constitutional Court are elected by the Federal Parliament (Bundestag) and the Federal Council (Bundesrat) and need an overwhelming majority vote (2/3 of votes in both). This generally ensures that one party alone can't influence who the judges are. Also, a judge's term only ends when the judge becomes 68 years old, government can't dismiss a federal judge. From what I heard, the new regulations in Poland are in no way comparable. – Roland Dec 20 '17 at 08:26
  • The way that state attorneys are appointed then seems to be more of a problem in Germany. And they can decide to a large part which cases they pursue and which they won't. I believe there are better systems in some other countries, where there is more independence. – jjack Dec 20 '17 at 10:08
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    @jjack State attorneys are not relevant at the Constitutional Court. They are part of the criminal justice system and the way they are appointed in Germany is not unusual at all. Next you'll complain about how police officers are hired. I get the impression you are more interested in a political agenda then in researching facts. – Roland Dec 20 '17 at 12:34
  • @Roland It might not be unusual, but it might not be ok either. How do you know what I'm going to do next? :-) – jjack Dec 20 '17 at 12:43
  • @Roland you are wrong, the reform is about supreme court, in germany called "Federal Court of Justice". wiki: "Judges of the Federal Court of Justice are selected by an electoral committee, which consists of the Secretaries of Justice of the 16 German Bundesländer and of 16 representatives appointed by the German Federal Parliament (Bundestag)" they are chosen with absolute majority. –  Jan 10 '18 at 15:01
  • @Roland "From what I heard, the new regulations in Poland are in no way comparable" where? you already tried to obscure the truth comparing polish supreme court with German constitutional court. Now you want to tell us what you heard. Where? On the street, in a pub, in a coffee house? –  Jan 10 '18 at 15:03
  • @Tlen I saw that in the English Wikipedia but I consulted the German Wikipedia and other German sources before writing my comment: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundesverfassungsgericht#Wahl_im_Bundesrat What you quote is outdated. – Roland Jan 10 '18 at 15:07
  • @Roland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Court_of_Justice German, learn the difference between constitutional court and supreme court. In some country there is one (like USA) in some like post-nazi Germany or Poland there are two separate institutions. The law changes in Poland attacked by Merkel's media affect only the supreme court. –  Jan 11 '18 at 07:18
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    @Tlen I know the difference. The supreme court in Germany is called Bundesverfassungsgericht. The Wikipedia page you link to concerns the Bundesgerichtshof. This is the correct en.wikipedia entry concerning the discussion here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Constitutional_Court#Appointment_of_judges And there is no such thing as "Merkel's media". – Roland Jan 11 '18 at 07:53

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