3

Local hidden variables are ruled out by experiment (Bell). Non-local ones are not excluded though.

Are there experiments thinkable to discern if they really exist or if reality is intrinsically indeterministic, i.e, irreducibly stochastic? For example, the measurement of the electric field around a hydrogen atom? If the wavefunction corresponds to a real structure surrounding the electron in the atom, there would exist a rapidly fluctuating dipole moment around it.

Mauricio
  • 5,273
MatterGauge
  • 1
  • I'm not sure that I see how non-local hidden variables are connected with the electron position ('exact') in a hydrogen atom. – Jon Custer Feb 08 '22 at 14:27
  • @JonCuster Seems to me that the electron (say in lowest energy, zero angular momentum) "hip-hops" from one position to another instantaneously. I don't know how fast (if it does) but a changing electric field around the atom should be "seen". – MatterGauge Feb 08 '22 at 14:38
  • But how does that correlate to non-local hidden variables? – Jon Custer Feb 08 '22 at 14:39
  • @JonCuster The instantaneous hopping around is determined by the hidden variables that constitute the correlate of the wavefunction. – MatterGauge Feb 08 '22 at 14:42
  • Electric field around atom does change, indicating instantaneous non-zero dipole moment, but you can visualize this by a fluctuating electron cloud. Why do you think electron should hip hop in that classical way? – KP99 Feb 08 '22 at 14:53
  • Maybe you should add what you understand about quantum mechanics, locality, reality and determinism. You are mixing many of them in the same bag without any clear relevance to the title. – Mauricio Feb 08 '22 at 17:45
  • @Mauricio i talk about real non-local variables that determine the motion of a particle, which accordingly has well-defined positions and momenta. All the talk about non-locality and reality seem superfluous to me. – MatterGauge Feb 08 '22 at 18:38
  • @KP99 If there is a cloud of hidden variables present around the proton, then this cloud will deterministically "guide" the electron. The groundstate wavefunction, in this picture, corresponds to the distribution of hidden variables. In the lowest energy S orbital, the electron hops from one place to another, instantaneously, non-locally. – MatterGauge Feb 08 '22 at 18:45
  • @Felicia so you are asking if experiments could falsify real non-local hidden variables? there is a Nature proposal on that: https://arxiv.org/abs/0704.2529 – Mauricio Feb 08 '22 at 18:53
  • @Mauricio Exactly! Great! Though you can call it confirmation too. – MatterGauge Feb 08 '22 at 19:13
  • I took the liberty of changing the title for clarity, you may revert it if it is not what you were looking for. – Mauricio Feb 08 '22 at 19:17
  • @Mauricio No problem! Thanks. – MatterGauge Feb 08 '22 at 19:23
  • 1
    It's not really instantaneous. Please see Do electrons really perform instantaneous quantum leaps? – PM 2Ring Feb 08 '22 at 20:37

0 Answers0