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I'm trying to derive a model of a plucked string from Newton's second law. My derivation results in $$ω_n = C\cdot\sqrt{n},\, n=1,2,3\dots\text{integer}$$ I think it should be $$ω_n = C\cdot n,\, n=1,2,3\dots\text{integer}$$

I started with beads each having mass $m$ evenly spaced on a string with string tension $T$. Bead $n$ is displaced upward by a distance $y$. The forces on bead $n$ seem to me to be: $$F_n = m_n \ddot y_n =-T \sin⁡(\theta_{n-1,n}) -T \sin⁡(\theta_{n,n+1}) $$ $$\sin⁡(\theta_{n-1,n}) \approx (y_n - y_{n-1})/d$$ $$\sin⁡(\theta_{n,n+1}) \approx (y_n - y_{n+1})/d/d$$ Making substitutions and rearranging: $$\ddot y_n+\frac{T}{dm_n}(-y_{n-1} + 2y_n -y_{n+1})=0$$ Now let $$y_n = A_n \cdot e^{i\omega t}, \implies \dot y_n = i\omega \cdot y_n, \ddot y_n = -w^2 \cdot y_n$$ Also define $$C ≡ \sqrt{\frac{T}{d\cdot m}} $$ Now $$\omega^2 + C^2\cdot(-y_{n-1} + 2y_n -y_{n+1})=0$$ Expanding in matrix form: $$\begin{bmatrix} A\end{bmatrix} \vec y_n = \frac{\omega^2}{C^2} \vec y_n$$ Where $$|A| \equiv \begin{bmatrix} 2 & -1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0\\ -1 & 2 & -1 & 0 & 0 & 0\\ 0 & -1 & 2 & -1 & 0 & 0\\ 0 & 0 & -1 & 2 & -1 & 0\\ 0 & 0 & 0 & -1 & 2 & -1\\ 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & -1 & 2 &\\ \end{bmatrix}$$ An on-line calculator shows the eigenvalues of $|A|$ to be: $1, 2, 3, 4\dots$

So my result would seem to be $$ω_n = C \cdot\sqrt{n},\, n=1,2,3\dots\text{integer}$$ What's wrong?

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    Related if Not Duplicate : Eigenvalue equation for kinetic and potential energy. The tridiagonal matrix is a special case of the so-called Toeplitz matrices [see equation (19)] and its eigenvalues and eigenvectors could be determined analytically [see equations (20),(21) respectively]. – Frobenius Nov 21 '21 at 06:52
  • Are you strings bound on the edges to, say, walls? Or are there infinitely many strings? – Daddy Kropotkin Nov 21 '21 at 09:07
  • $\sqrt{n} \omega_0$ is correct. – John Alexiou Nov 21 '21 at 12:09
  • It seems that your model (by which a plucked guitar string is simulated by $:n:$ identical beads distributed uniformly along the string) is wrong. – Frobenius Nov 21 '21 at 22:54
  • You guys are correct. I used a Schur program (which I had previously validated) to calculate the eigensystem out to 15 and the eigenvalues and there were no integers in there (note were there any square roots of integers). Granted my model doesn't work, but the question in my mind still remains: why not?? – Nick Boshaft Nov 23 '21 at 22:23

3 Answers3

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Why would you think $\omega_n=n{\omega_0}$ or $\sqrt{n}\omega_0$?

The "quantum number" $n$ here is momentum $k$ since this is obviously a translationally invariant system. With some Fourier transformations, you can get the energy $\omega_n=2\omega_0\sin(k)$, where $k=\pi/(2N)\cdot i$ and $i=-N,\cdots,N$, $N$ for the total number of lattice site. Small deviations in $k$ if the boundary is open.

This dispersion agrees with the eigenvalues of your tridiagonal matrix.

RoderickLee
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  • I thought my result would correspond to real music where (I thought) the overtones of a plucked stringed instrument are integer multiples of the fundamental tone. – Nick Boshaft Nov 21 '21 at 22:03
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The answers posted by previous experts leave the fundamental two question unanswered:

  1. Why don't the eigenvalues of my uniform, tri-diagonal, symmetric (Toeplitz) harmonic, corresponding to the known characteristics of a real guitar string?
  2. Why don't the eigenvalues for progressively larger matrices converge to the continuum solution of Lagrangian analysis?

Help can be found in "Almost-dispersionless pulse transport in long quasi uniform spring-mass chains ..." R. Via, August 2, 2018. See equations (38)- (41).

The eigenvalues of matrix $(A)$ defined in my question (as noted in the previous answers and confirmed in the referenced paper) are: $$\lambda_n = 2-2\cdot \cos(k_n)$$ where: $$k_n ≝ \left(\frac{ n\,\pi}{N+1}\right)$$ So: $$\frac{\omega_n^2}{C^2}= 2-2 \cdot \cos \left(k_n\right)$$

$$\omega_n = C\, \sqrt { 2-2\cdot \cos( k_n ) } = 2\, C \cdot \sin { \left( \frac{k_n}{2} \right) } = 2 \, C \cdot \sin { \left(\frac{ n\cdot \pi}{2\cdot (N+1)}\right) } $$ My first remaining question is answered by a key sentence in the reference paper is:

For $k\ll 1$ (i.e. $n\ll N$) they [the $\omega_n$] are almost linear in $k$ and equally spaced in $n$.

For $n\ll N$ $$\sin { \left(\frac{ n\cdot \pi}{2\cdot (N+1)}\right) } \approx { \left(\frac{ n\cdot \pi}{2\cdot (N+1)}\right) }$$

So in this particular case: $$\omega_n \approx {\left(\frac{C\cdot \pi}{N+1}\right) n}$$

But as noted in my question: $$C ≝ \sqrt{\frac{T}{d\cdot m}}$$ Holding the length of the string as a constant $L$ and the total mass of the string as constant $M$: $$ m = \frac{M}{N},\, d = \frac{M}{N+1}$$ For very large $N$, i.e. as the chain of masses becomes a continuous string: $$C \approx \sqrt{\frac{T}{L\cdot M}}\cdot N$$ We can now define: $$\omega_0 ≝\sqrt{\frac{T}{L\cdot M}}\cdot \frac{N}{N}\cdot \pi = \pi\,\sqrt{\frac{T}{L\cdot M}}$$ Finally: $$\omega_n \approx \omega_0 \cdot n,\, n=1,2,3\dots\text{integer}$$

which is the classical answer and resolves my last remaining question.

  • Thomas: I see you edited my answer. Thanks (I guess). As a learning opportunity I would like you to explain why you changed what you did. – Nick Boshaft Dec 19 '21 at 19:03
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$\newcommand{\bl}[1]{\boldsymbol{#1}} \newcommand{\e}{\bl=} \newcommand{\p}{\bl+} \newcommand{\m}{\bl-} \newcommand{\gr}{\bl>} \newcommand{\les}{\bl<} \newcommand{\greq}{\bl\ge} \newcommand{\leseq}{\bl\le} \newcommand{\plr}[1]{\left(#1\right)} \newcommand{\blr}[1]{\left[#1\right]} \newcommand{\lara}[1]{\langle#1\rangle} \newcommand{\lav}[1]{\langle#1|} \newcommand{\vra}[1]{|#1\rangle} \newcommand{\lavra}[2]{\langle#1|#2\rangle} \newcommand{\lavvra}[3]{\langle#1|\,#2\,|#3\rangle} \newcommand{\vp}{\vphantom{\dfrac{a}{b}}} \newcommand{\hp}[1]{\hphantom{#1}} \newcommand{\x}{\bl\times} \newcommand{\qqlraqq}{\qquad\bl{-\!\!\!-\!\!\!-\!\!\!\longrightarrow}\qquad} \newcommand{\qqLraqq}{\qquad\boldsymbol{\e\!\e\!\e\!\e\!\Longrightarrow}\qquad} \newcommand{\tl}[1]{\tag{#1}\label{#1}}$

The results of OP are wrong. More precisely if \begin{equation} \mathrm\Xi\e \begin{bmatrix} \hp\m 2&\m1&\hp\m 0&\cdots&\hp\m 0&\hp\m 0\hp\m\\ \m1 &\hp\m 2&\m1&\cdots&\hp\m 0&\hp\m 0\hp\m\\ \hp\m 0&\m1&\hp\m 2&\cdots&\hp\m 0 &\hp\m 0\hp\m\\ \hp\m\vdots &\hp\m\vdots &\hp\m\vdots&\cdots &\hp\m \vdots&\hp\m\vdots\hp\m\\ \hp\m 0&\hp\m 0&\hp\m 0&\cdots&\hp\m 2&\m1\hp\m\\ \hp\m 0&\hp\m 0&\hp\m 0&\cdots&\m1&\hp\m 2\hp\m \end{bmatrix} \tag{01}\label{01} \end{equation} is a $\:n\times n\:$ symmetric Toeplitz matrix, its eigenvalues are not those of the OP \begin{equation} \lambda_\rho\e\rho\,, \qquad \rho\e1,2,3,\cdots n \qquad\qquad \texttt{(wrong)} \tag{02}\label{02} \end{equation} but \begin{equation} \xi_\rho\e 4\sin^{2}\blr{\rho\dfrac{\pi}{2\plr{n\p1}}}\e 2\Bigg(1\m\cos\left[ \rho\dfrac{\pi}{\plr{n\p1}} \right]\Bigg), \quad \rho\e 1,2,\cdots, n \tag{03}\label{03} \end{equation}

$\bl{=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!}$

Counterexample 1 : Consider the $\:2\times 2\:$ symmetric Toeplitz matrix \begin{equation} \mathrm\Xi\e \begin{bmatrix} \hp\m 2&\m1\hp\m\vp\\ \m1 &\hp\m 2\hp\m\vp \end{bmatrix} \tag{04}\label{04} \end{equation} According to the OP results its eigenvalues are \begin{equation} \lambda_1\e 1\,, \qquad \lambda_2\e 2 \qquad\qquad \texttt{(wrong)} \tag{05}\label{05} \end{equation} instead of \begin{equation} \begin{split} \xi_1 & \e 4\sin^{2}\plr{\dfrac{\pi}{6}}\e 1 \\ \xi_2 & \e 4\sin^{2}\plr{\dfrac{\pi}{3}}\e 3 \end{split} \tag{06}\label{06} \end{equation} in agreement with equation \eqref{03}.

$\bl{=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!=\!}$

Counterexample 2 : Consider the $\:3\times 3\:$ symmetric Toeplitz matrix \begin{equation} \mathrm\Xi\e \begin{bmatrix} \hp\m 2&\m1&\hp\m0\hp\m\vp\\ \m 1 &\hp\m 2&\m1\hp\m\vp\\ \hp\m 0 &\m 1&\hp\m 2\hp\m\vp \end{bmatrix} \tag{07}\label{07} \end{equation} According to the OP results its eigenvalues are \begin{equation} \lambda_1\e 1\,, \qquad \lambda_2\e 2\,, \qquad \lambda_3\e 3 \qquad\qquad \texttt{(wrong)} \tag{08}\label{08} \end{equation} instead of \begin{equation} \begin{split} \xi_1 & \e 4\sin^{2}\plr{\,\dfrac{\pi}{8}\,}\e 2\Bigg[1\m\cos\left(\,\dfrac{\pi}{4}\,\right)\Bigg]\e 2\m\sqrt{2} \\ \xi_2 & \e 4\sin^{2}\plr{\,\dfrac{\pi}{4}\,}\e2\Bigg[1\m\cos\left(\,\dfrac{\pi}{2}\,\right)\Bigg]\e 2\\ \xi_3 & \e 4\sin^{2}\plr{\!\dfrac{3\pi}{8}\!}\e 2\Bigg[1\m\cos\left(\!\dfrac{3\pi}{4}\! \right)\!\Bigg]\e 2\p\sqrt{2} \\ \end{split} \tag{09}\label{09} \end{equation} in agreement with equation \eqref{03}.

Note that \begin{equation} \lambda_1\lambda_2\lambda_3\e 1\cdot 2 \cdot 3 \e 6 \bl\ne 4\e \det\plr{\mathrm\Xi} \tag{10}\label{10} \end{equation} while \begin{equation} \xi_1\xi_2\xi_3\e \plr{2\m\sqrt{2}}\cdot 2\cdot\plr{2\p\sqrt{2}} \e 4\e \det\plr{\mathrm\Xi} \tag{11}\label{11} \end{equation}

An other check is \begin{equation} \sum\limits_{\rho\e 1}^{\rho\e n}\lambda_\rho\e\sum\limits_{\rho\e 1}^{\rho\e n}\rho\e\dfrac{n\plr{n\p1}}{2}\bl\ne 2n\e \texttt{Trace}\plr{\mathrm\Xi} \tag{12}\label{12} \end{equation}

Frobenius
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  • I appreciate your math, but my physics question is, why don’t the calculations yield something that corresponds to what you see on a frequency analyzer for a plucked guitar string? – Nick Boshaft Nov 21 '21 at 22:10
  • @Nick Boshaft : So what you call plucked string is not simulated by $:n:$ identical beads distributed uniformly along the string. Please clarify. – Frobenius Nov 21 '21 at 22:17
  • Frobenius: Do you see any flaws in my analysis of “n identical beads distributed uniformly along a tensioned weightless string. If not then you appear to be correct that the model doesn’t correctly model a plucked string, neither with your Eigenvalues nor mine, even if I used more, smaller beads closer together approaching continuum. Why not? – Nick Boshaft Nov 22 '21 at 00:26