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Can you please tell me when $P=\vec{F}\cdot\vec{v}$ is valid?

Let us consider $\vec{F}$ as to be a function of time $t$. We know that $P=\frac{dW}{dt}$, where $W$ stands for the work done. $$P=\frac{d(F.x)}{dt}$$ and on should use the product rule for differentiation.

Is $P=\vec{F}\cdot\vec{v}$ not valid if the force is variable (i.e. a function of displacement or time)?

Qmechanic
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Rishab
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  • I am asking this because in many problems they have used P=F.v even if Force is variable(function of dispacement)......and they had not given displacement is, not a function of time(so F cannot be told constant with respect to time right?) So in turn the formula not being valid.right?? – Rishab Feb 10 '20 at 15:08
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    work is $W=\int F(x),dx=\int F(x(t)),\frac{dx}{dt},dt$ thus

    $\frac{dW}{dt}= F(x(t)),\frac{dx}{dt}= F(x(t)),v(t)$ where $x(t)=\int v,dt$

    – Eli Feb 10 '20 at 15:22
  • so $P=F\cdot v$ is only valid if $F$ is constant – Eli Feb 10 '20 at 15:29
  • I didn't get what you did there – Rishab Feb 10 '20 at 15:31
  • this is simple mathematics – Eli Feb 10 '20 at 16:49

3 Answers3

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$P$ is the instantaneous power; it only depends on the values of the force and velocity at a given moment $t$. It does not depend on the history of the force (i.e. if the force is constant, or varies with position or velocity).

It may seem confusing because you have written that the work $W = F \cdot x$. This is not true in general. Instead, the work done by the point of application of a force moving a distance $x$ is: $W = \int_0^x F(x')\, \text dx'$. If you differentiate this integral you obtain the correct result that $P = F \cdot v$.

BioPhysicist
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  • So force is treated as constant if we are considering instantaneous power(We consider only force at that instant of time)?? And this is valid if power is instantaneous only?? – Rishab Feb 10 '20 at 15:34
  • Yes, the instantaneous power only cares about the value of the force at that particular moment. If you want to evaluate the time-averaged power, then naturally you have to consider the power's time-dependence. – Clara Diaz Sanchez Feb 10 '20 at 15:39
  • Thank you so much – Rishab Feb 10 '20 at 15:52
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    Good answer, +1. @Rishab the force is neither treated as a constant nor as a variable. It is simply not a relevant distinction. The force and velocity at a given instant give you the power at that same instant, regardless of whether they are constant or not – Dale Feb 10 '20 at 16:14
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Power is defined as rate of change of work. Since we are talking about derivatives, the power concerned is instantaneous power which is defined as

$$P = dW/dt$$

Now remember that by definition, work done

$$W = \int _C \overrightarrow F \cdot d \overrightarrow r$$

where $\int _C$ represents a line integral over the required path.

Therefore

$$dW = \overrightarrow F \cdot d \overrightarrow r$$

To get dW/dt, we divide both sides by dt to get

$$P = dW/dt = \overrightarrow F \cdot \frac{d \overrightarrow r}{dt}$$

We know that velocity $\overrightarrow v = \frac{d \overrightarrow r}{dt}$

Thus we have

$$P = \overrightarrow F \cdot \overrightarrow v$$

The source of the error was that work done is defined by the equation

$$dW = \overrightarrow F \cdot d \overrightarrow r$$

rather than the more well known one

$$W = \overrightarrow F \cdot \Delta \overrightarrow r$$

where $\Delta \overrightarrow r$ is the vector displacement. This equation is valid only for the case where the force is constant, and can in fact be derived from the more general $dW = \overrightarrow F \cdot d \overrightarrow r$

Hope this helps

0

If you define $P$ as $\frac{d E_k}{dt}$, where $E_k = \frac{1}{2}m v^2$ is the kinetic energy, then $P = \overrightarrow{F}\cdot \overrightarrow{v}$ simply follows from Newton's second law:

$$\frac{1}{2}m \frac{d(v^2)}{dt} = \overrightarrow{v} \cdot \left( m \frac{d \overrightarrow{v}}{dt}\right) = \overrightarrow{v} \cdot (m \overrightarrow{a}) = \overrightarrow{v} \cdot \overrightarrow{F}$$

On the other hand, the definition of the work done by $\overrightarrow{F}$ between two points $a$ and $b$ can not be expressed simply as the difference of potential energies:

$$W_{a \to b} = E_{k,b} - E_{k,a} = \int \limits_{t_a}^{t_b} \frac{d E_k}{dt} dt = \int \limits_{t_a}^{t_b} \overrightarrow{F} \cdot \overrightarrow{v} dt = \int \limits_{x_a}^{x_b} \overrightarrow{F} \cdot \overrightarrow{dx} \neq V(x_b, t_b) - V(x_a, t_a),$$

where $V(x,t)$ is defined as $- \overrightarrow{\nabla} V(x,t) = \overrightarrow{F}(x,t)$. The last equality does not hold anymore because $d V = \overrightarrow{\nabla}V \cdot \overrightarrow{dx} + \frac{\partial V}{\partial t} dt \neq - \overrightarrow{F} \cdot \overrightarrow{dx}.$

QuantumApple
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