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Edited in case the question wasn't clear:

Question: How do I get Photoshop, IrfanView and ACDSee to display images the same as they are displayed in the latest versions of Chrome and Firefox (both of which supposedly display untagged images as sRGB with colour-management on)

All images are in sRGB colour space. Default workflow is to open an sRGB image, edit it, and save for web with "Convert to sRGB" enabled. I then strip the colour profile as it should be assumed to be sRGB. However, I have tried every conceivable combination of this - not converting to sRGB, embedding colour profile, etc.

Currently, IrfanView and ACDSee with colour management disabled display the images the same as Chrome and Firefox, and Photoshop with Proof Colours: Monitor RGB displays the same as Chrome and Firefox.

However, enabling colour management in IrfanView and ACDSee causes them to display the images the same as Photoshop, but differently to Chrome and Firefox.

How can I get it so that all three programs display images the same as Chrome and Firefox? Because at the moment I am finding it impossible to edit dark photos - what looks "right" in Photoshop displays darker in Chrome and Firefox.

Note: This is all on my own monitors, which as far as I can tell are correctly set to use their own display profiles - I'm aware that I can't control how other people's displays may be configured.

Note: I'm using the beta of Firefox 77, that has fixed the "bug" where untagged images by default weren't colour managed.

Example photos and screenshots showing what I am seeing

I have a problem where dark photos look quite noticeably different depending on what opens them, and specifically, on Chrome and Firefox. I'm aware this is because of colour management differences between programs.

So what I want to do, is make it so that my images look consistently the same between all the programs I use on my computer. Specifically, I want an image to look the same as it looks in a browser, because ultimately that's how my images will be viewed. If I'm ever getting some printed, I'll deal with print profiles and stuff then. For the purpose of this, I only want to be able to view images in browsers, and I want my own viewing experience to mimic that of the browsers people use.

I don't want to make any configuration changes to my browsers - I want them to be roughly the defaults that "everyone else" will be using.

I'm happy to configure every other program I use so that they match, as close as possibly, the viewing experience in a web browser.

I use IrfanView, ACDSee and Photoshop. All support colour management. I'm testing in Chrome and Firefox. Both supposedly support colour management.

But I'm getting vastly different results and after many hours of trial and error, it's doing my head in.

The closest I can get to all the images being the same everywhere is if I disable colour management entirely in IrfanView and ACDSee, and strip the ICC profile from the images so they're untagged (which is my normal workflow anyway), and then use "Proof colours: Monitor RGB" in Photoshop, which is a hassle.

What I want is this:

  • I want JPG images which contain no metadata and no ICC profiles (I run them through jpegoptim --strip-all) to display the same in all browsers. In my testing, they seem to do this. (I believe browsers assume they are sRGB)
  • I want those images, if I open them in IrfanView, ACDSee, or Photoshop, to display (on my monitor), the same as they display in Chrome and Firefox (on my monitor)

The only way I have been able to achieve this in testing so far is to ensure no image contains a colour profile, and disable colour management in IrfanView, ACDSee, and use "Proof colours: Monitor RGB" in Photoshop. Otherwise any app with colour management on displays the images noticeably differently to the browsers, and Firefox displays images with an embedded sRGB colour profile differently to those without any profile (even though everything on the internet assures me this should not be the case as it should assume sRGB?)

I also want to be able to:

  • I want new images I am opening, say from my camera, which probably do contain an sRGB ICC profile, to display the same in Photoshop while I'm editing them as they will display in the browser.
  • The only way I've managed to do this is to use "Proof colours: Monitor RGB", which is a hassle as I have to remember to toggle it on for every single photo, and it appears to be impossible to use in Camera Raw, making it pretty hard to do fine adjustment of dark coloured photos in a way that will look consistent in browsers
  • I'd also like them to display in ACDSee, or IrfanView, the same as they will when I open then in Photoshop, and ideally the same as they will when they're viewed in a browser (though technically no unedited photo will ever be viewed in a browser, so as long as they display the same after editing, I guess it's ok)

Considering I have (theoretically) calibrated monitors with their own profiles, and Chrome and Firefox and all the apps I'm using are all supposedly colour-managed, it seems like I'm doing something wrong here, but I have tried every combination I can think of settings over the past several hours and the only thing that comes close to being consistent amongst the various apps - most importantly, between both Chrome and Firefox - is stripping the colour profiles from the images, and turning off colour-management in all my viewing apps.

I've read numerous posts on the matter, but sadly, none have really helped.

I feel like this must be a common issue, because a lot of people must be like me and take digital photos, and edit them only for the web.

What should I do!?

Ned Martin
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  • There's no real question here. It looks like you're just complaining about color management. If you want all programs to display images the same, all programs need to have the same color management settings. Having it enabled for some, but disabled for others, will result in images being displayed differently. – xiota May 18 '20 at 15:31
  • @xiota - sure there's a question here, "How do I colour manage?" Answer: not like that. See below. – Tetsujin May 18 '20 at 16:03
  • "I only want to be able to view images in browsers, and I want my own viewing experience to mimic that of the browsers people use." Good luck with that. Even if people are using browsers that render the photo correctly, there's absolutely no guarantee their display device is properly displaying what the browser is sending to the graphics display adapter/monitor. – Michael C May 18 '20 at 22:15
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    Does this answer your question? How can I ensure proper color rendition with browsers on wide gamut displays? – Michael C May 18 '20 at 22:24
  • Related: What workflow will preserve color accuracy? and Is there a reason not to remove colour profiles from images on the web? and What software shows the most accurate version of a photograph for web viewing? – Michael C May 18 '20 at 22:25
  • The question here is "How do I get photos to look the same in Photoshop, IrfanView and ACDSee as they do in Chrome and Firefox?"

    And no, none of those linked posts helped unfortunately - most are too old, browsers have changed etc., but either way none match my experience.

    Both Chrome and Firefox supposedly use sRGB for untagged images and support colour management - so why is Photoshop displaying the image differently and how do I correct it?

     – Ned Martin May 19 '20 at 04:02
  • @Ned, as this answer to the duplicate I suggested state directly, because you are not using a proper profile for your wide gamut monitor. "You should never set your display's profile to one of the working profiles (because that isn't its profile!). The correct solution is to use a calibration device to find out your monitor's correct profile, and use that." – Michael C May 19 '20 at 04:23
  • @MichaelC, you must have misread something - my apologies if I was confusing. I am using the correct profiles for my monitors. Both displays are using their own display-specific profiles. I have never set my displays to any other profiles. I'm unsure how to confirm that Windows or a browser is actually using the correct monitor profile, but I have the correct monitor-specific profiles set in the Colour Management part in Windows and set as default for the appropriate displays. – Ned Martin May 19 '20 at 05:31
  • You're using generic profiles provided by the monitors' manufacturers. Those are not "correct" profiles for a properly color managed environment. You need to use profiles created using a colorimeter that measures your specific monitor's output. You need to repeat this at least monthly, as monitors output changes over time. – Michael C May 19 '20 at 08:54
  • You have missed the issue - having a perfectly calibrated monitor in no way helps this issue - the issue is that photos look very different in Chrome, Firefox, and Photoshop ON THE SAME MONITOR, using the same profile.

    Even if that profile is a bit wrong, the images should look the same on the same monitor right? Chrome and Firefox are both supposedly colour managed applications.

     – Ned Martin May 20 '20 at 03:26

2 Answers2

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As already established, export as sRGB - whether or not you embed the profile is really moot, as with no profile, sRGB will be assumed.

Prior to that work in whatever you got from your camera*. Only convert once at export.

The major error, however, is to use Proof Colours with your Monitor profile. This will apply a double translation & generally look horrible, or you 'fix' your image to look right like that & it will look horrible everywhere else.
You really don't ever need to use Proof Colours in an RGB workflow if your only conversion is right at the end. It will be as close as it's possible to get.

So long as your monitor's profile shows in the list [not chosen, merely available] at Colour Settings > Working Spaces:RGB then your system is aware of it & will apply it already to Photoshop's display output. Here you should set your Working Space to sRGB, then ignore it, you're not really going to use it.
Set Colour Management for RGB to Preserve Embedded Profiles. That way your camera profile will be used right the way through your workflow until your final export.

This, of course, all assumes your monitor is correctly calibrated beforehand, that the icc profile is being used by the system & that Photoshop is aware of it.

*You can probably choose in your camera ahich profile it will work to internally. Mine will do sRGB or Adobe RGB 1998. Some will do ProPhoto, which you have to be careful of because very few monitors can actually display it. I use the Adobe 98 as my monitor can display it accurately. I'd be hesitant to insist you photograph at sRGB if that's all your monitor can support, as you may be missing out on some small aspects of the potential gamut, but you wouldn't be able to see the differences yourself anyway if the monitor can't display them.
Most monitors these days can display 'most of' sRGB, only premium displays will be fully capable of Adobe 98 & very few high end can achieve ProPhoto.

One last trick, in case you ever enable Proof Colours by accident [it's right between Transform & Hue/Sat, so it's not impossible to do] - set your proof profile to sRGB, then you won't wonder what the heck happened later ;)

…and a late thought - most consumer-level printers these days want sRGB images anyway, not CMYK, so you won't even need Proof Colours for those either. I have two regular suppliers I use, one for acrylics & one for canvases. Both produce very acceptable results nicely comparable to my original submissions.

Tetsujin
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  • "You really don't ever need to use Proof Colours in an RGB workflow if your only conversion is right at the end. It will be as close as it's possible to get."

    The problem I have, is that the images in both Chrome and Firefox look the same as when I use "Proof Colours" in Photoshop.

    Obviously. I want to see when editing the same thing that I see when in the browser - as I'm editing for the browser.

    Note that I have the latest Chrome and Firefox beta (which now includes full color management of untagged images, as of the current beta, Firefox 77, due out June 2)

     – Ned Martin May 19 '20 at 03:53
  • I used to do exactly what you said (process is sRGB the entire way, from camera through to conversion when saving), until I noticed that images on my friend's phone were too dark. I then looked on my own monitor in Chrome and Firefox and they're too dark there too. I can download and open it with Photoshop or my image viewer and it's the "correct" brightness I assumed when editing it, but when viewing in a browser (on my same monitor) it's too dark.

    That's what set me off to "fix" this issue.

    I need Photoshop to display the same image/colours/gamut the browser will use while I'm editing.

     – Ned Martin May 19 '20 at 04:00
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    Then your display profile must be out by a long way, or your system for some reason is failing to handle it correctly. You don't use Proof to your own Display because it's simply incorrect to do that. You get a double translation, resulting is massively inaccurate colours. Did you check the specific settings I mentioned & that your display profile is not actually being used anywhere in your workflow? [that's the most common error people make] TBH, I'm not sure how Windows deals with wide-gamut monitors, I'm on Mac which certainly doesn't make the error claimed if viewing on an Adobe98 screen. – Tetsujin May 19 '20 at 05:18
  • Yes, I checked. I have amended my original question to try to clarify this. Both Firefox & Chrome display images a certain way. In theory they are using sRGB for the untagged images, & my display profile, to do so? I need to be able to display the same way in Photoshop/IrfanView/ACDSee.

    Both browsers match all my other software with colour management disabled. When colour management is enabled, the displayed images in ACDSee/IrfanView match Photoshop but do not match Chrome or Firefox. It seems to me the browsers are not using colour management at all?

     – Ned Martin May 19 '20 at 05:38
  • Does that difference still apply whether your images have embedded profiles or not? If we're down to Windows idiosyncrasies, then I'll have to declare myself no longer capable of answering. I'm on Mac, which doesn't have any of the odd foibles of Windows' colour-management [I've read about them, but never directly experienced them]. – Tetsujin May 19 '20 at 05:42
  • I'm thinking it's looking like being some kind of stupid Windows/Browser issue. I made https://www.nedmartin.org/v3/public/colour-management-test.html - if you scroll down to the "JPEG files" section, you can see 4 files with embedded or not embedded profiles, and below that screenshots showing that Firefox handles them differently, and Chrome shows them all as if they're not colour managed at all.

    I don't understand what's going on or how to fix it, but it looks to me like the browsers are not colour managing correctly.

     – Ned Martin May 20 '20 at 03:38
  • "JPEG direct from camera vs. screenshot of Photoshop" It's already wrong by there. I note you're still converting on input. – Tetsujin May 20 '20 at 10:34
  • No input was converted - image was already sRGB. Changing the setting you have said appears to make absolutely no difference, which is what I'd expect because all images are already in sRGB.

    If it's already wrong by here, do you care to explain why or how it's wrong, or how to correct it?

     – Ned Martin May 20 '20 at 13:47
  • Your settings say the input is being converted. if it isn't, then Photoshop has the wrong profile somewhere, or Windows is handing it the wrong one. We're back to hardware calibration. All you have is some generic, best guess, profile your monitor manufacturer made. They are never anywhere close. for gamma, white-balance might be just about OK, curves will usually also be miles out from true. – Tetsujin May 20 '20 at 14:26
  • Just for a tale which shows I'm actually sympathetic to your situation, that a decent colorimeter will cost you $£€ 250… I'm having the same issues with a new TV right now… I am already fully equipped to get my media computer's playback up to spec because I already own all the requisite hardware & software to correctly calibrate it. However, they now want another £150 from me so I can interface properly with the TV's internal calibration, or forever watch 'telly' that looks like some kind of 1980's "making of " documentary, because the profile that looks good in the shop looks sh*t at home. – Tetsujin May 20 '20 at 14:30
  • I can assure you the exact same thing happens if I change the setting to "Preserve embedded profiles"

    I have no idea how to confirm what profile Windows is telling things to use. I have set the correct profile as "Default" in Windows and selected it for the appropriate monitor (which it already was from factory).

    I've also been advised by Microsoft that their factory calibration is going to be more accurate than a $250 off-the-shelf calibrator, though I can't confirm whether that is true. Regardless, that doesn't seem to be the problem I am having - all images are on the same monitor

     – Ned Martin May 21 '20 at 00:12
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From your description, it seems to me that it is the browsers that are wrong, and the picture vieweres that are right. Which is, in a way, to be expected.

First, even if you are using Firefox 77 which is supposed to have fixed the issue, still check the gfx.color_management.mode setting: it should be 1. If you updated it from a previous version, it may have retained the old incorrect setting (2 or 0). (Restart the browser after changing it: this setting is not applied live).

Make sure the OS has a proper display profile installed. Then enable colour management in ACDSee, Photoshop etc. If there is an option re missing profile (I think ACDSee has it), set it to sRGB. Do not enable any proofing. Now, if they match between each other (e.g. ACDSee vs Photoshop), trust them and not the browsers. Dig into browsers' settings, ask developers, submit bugreports.

If you are worried that web users will see your photos differently, alas, you won't make it better by matching your (apparently non-managed) browsers. This is the legacy of neglecting colour management for decades.

One more thing: if you see significant brightness differencess in the shadows (i.e., wrong gamma), your display settings may be incorrect. Ideally, you should be able to adjust display controls (if you have any) such that the gamma was approximately right, with only colours being off. Then you calibrate it with these settings.

Zeus
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  • Yes, ACDSee, IrfanView and Photoshop all look the same with colour management enabled. Images with missing profiles are configured to be treated as sRGB in ACDsee and IrfanView. This all works as I would expect.

    Chrome and Firefox however, look different. Firefox's pref is set to 1 (the new default), but regardless it appears that the two images with embedded profiles are handled differently. See my screenshots for what I see.

     – Ned Martin May 20 '20 at 03:44
  • Now that I've made a test page with images I am testing it on other computers to see if I'm better off editing for browsers, or if I'm better off using colour management & accepting that my own browsers are broken (which does make it hard)

    Problem is that using colour management results in me not seeing a "realistic" representation while editing, where "realistic" is defined as what everyone else will see in a browser.

    I understand everyone has monitors calibrated differently etc., but so far every computer I've tested on sees an image similar to the non-colour-managed version I see.

     – Ned Martin May 20 '20 at 03:51
  • And yes, I cannot notice any colour shift at all, it's just a different brightness curve on shadows. Unfortunately with the kind of dark photos I'm taking at the moment, that is quite significant. – Ned Martin May 20 '20 at 05:30