I just wonder if anyone could shed any light on this puzzle. Two nights ago whilst I was out photographing the Lyrids meteor shower from the UK something else showed up on my images when I checked them the next morning. All images were 30-second exposures at ISO 2000 shot throughout the whole night with the intervalometer. It takes roughly two minutes for a satellite to pass through an image, so that's four images which you can see when viewing the images. This started just after 01:00 and disappeared from the frame at 01:25. Upon going through further I have a small speck starting from the top of image which continues through the image for 41 images; doing the maths, that's 20 minutes of something passing through the sky slowly. It never continued all the way through, just slowly got darker. I was obviously set up towards the star Vega and the Lyra constellation. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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I have also posted this in astronomy and been recommended to try in here also – Harvey Shelley Apr 29 '20 at 14:41
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At 01:00 that cannot be a low-orbit satellite because it would be in Earth's shadow (and as you say they fly over faster than this). However, the higher the orbit, the slower the flyover. Or course, the higher the orbit, the dimmer the object is, but your apparatus can record objects that are much too dim for the naked eye. The only problem with this is that they would still be in the earth's shadow, even if the "slowly disappearing" could be coherent with the satellite entering the shadow... – xenoid Apr 29 '20 at 15:57
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@xenoid thanks for reply! so if there is any more information I could give u to help? what would you suggest this could be then – Harvey Shelley Apr 29 '20 at 17:12
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1@xenoid If an orbit is high enough, a satellite can be in sunlight for a complete orbit, particularly if the declination of the orbit is not in line with the plane of the ecliptic. Consider the Moon: it only passes into the Earth's shadow on rare occasions. True, it is at nearly 250,000 miles, but even geostationary orbits are high enough that they rarely pass through the umbra (the darkest part) of the Earth's shadow. – Michael C Apr 29 '20 at 18:05
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@MichaelC Yes, but geostationary satellites are hardly visible with a telescope. Other orbits that are always in the sun are possible, but still not visible from a place which is in the middle of the night. – xenoid Apr 29 '20 at 20:15
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They can flare when their solar panels are in the correct orientation. That also explains the brightening/dimming while it is above the horizon. Not to mention that this satellites is moving a lot faster than a geostationary satellite does. – Michael C Apr 29 '20 at 20:16
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@MichaelC I know, I have chased Iridium flares in the past, and even seen some in broad daylight.. But the flare doesn't last 24 minutes. And the Iridium is LEO. – xenoid Apr 29 '20 at 20:19
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@ Michael C full frame canon 5dmk ii and 24mm. 2.8l iso 2000 – Harvey Shelley Apr 29 '20 at 20:21
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Iridium satellites were in LEOs! Geostationary satellites do not move much at all relative to the star field. There are a lot of possible orbital distances between a 485 mile orbit and a 22,236 mile orbital height! – Michael C Apr 29 '20 at 20:21
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@Micheal C So my camera was not on a trakking mount, just positioned stationary for where Vega would pass over my garden ready for capturing some of the lyrids meteors from the radiant point. None of the images have been cropped in any way.So how I processed the image was as follows, I used the starting image as the main frame , then pasted in the next frame in sequence added a layer mask and only pasted the next streak in the sequence, working my way through the rest of the images. The gaps between the trail is from where the camera stops and starts its next image – Harvey Shelley Apr 29 '20 at 20:32
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@Michael C Started from just after 1am of the 23rd . and am in East Sussex – Harvey Shelley Apr 29 '20 at 20:38
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@HarveyShelley What time does your camera show right now? – Michael C Apr 29 '20 at 22:14
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@Michael C 23.21 camera right now – Harvey Shelley Apr 29 '20 at 22:21
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So you are at GMT +1 due to daylight savings time? – Michael C Apr 29 '20 at 22:35
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@Michael C yes that is correct, where are u based – Harvey Shelley Apr 29 '20 at 22:44
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In the central time zone in the U.S. for some reason your camera's clock seems to be about one hour offset from Heavens Above. – Michael C Apr 29 '20 at 22:48
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@HarveyShelley What time was the frame taken that has two satellites showing that you last added to the question? – Michael C Apr 29 '20 at 22:51
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@Michael C oh really? well the cameras time is exactly the same as what the time is here in uk basically. that obviously wouldn't help u though. – Harvey Shelley Apr 29 '20 at 22:52
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@Michael C it was at 1.29am – Harvey Shelley Apr 29 '20 at 22:56
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@xenoid If one is far enough north (i.e. the Arctic Circle), the SUN is visible from sea level all night long between the vernal and autumnal equinoxes. Even south of the Arctic Circle, at the OP's location at 50°N, the sun is only 24° below the northern horizon at the time the images were captured. – Michael C Apr 30 '20 at 00:21
2 Answers
Update:
There was a Spacex Falcon 9 launch from Canaveral Air Force Base in Florida approximately five hours before your photos were taken. It launched 60 broadband beaming satellites into orbit for the Starlink project.
The current orbits of each of those 60 satellites when backtracked to the time of your photos, is nearly identical to the track you recorded. They have since been spread out in a line so that each one passes the same position over a period of several minutes. I'd be fairly confident to say that what you recorded had something to do with the deployment of those satellites. The earth's shadow at that altitude (approximately 550 km) and time was only slightly further to the right in your photo. Other Starlink satellites from previous launches at that same altitude but in slightly different orbits that placed them a bit further to the right in the photo were still in the Earth's shadow until they passed below the bottom of your photos' lower edge. (For example, Starlink-1060)
It could be a satellite in a fairly high orbit.
Check out Heavens Above and see what was in the sky above you at that time. Don't forget to enter your location or all your results will be for a spot in the Atlantic ocean at (0° lat, 0° long).
If you find a satellite listed that was overhead at the time you recorded it, you can click on the time it was highest above the horizon and see a chart showing its track relative to the stars as seen from your location. You can compare that path to the path in your images. Keep in mind that if the satellite's orbit is altered after you saw it but before you look it up, you won't get an accurate position at Heavens Above, so the sooner you look it up, the more accurate your search will be.
It is possible that what you recorded is at a higher altitude than most of the brighter satellites listed at Heavens Above. If so, then it would mean that the brightness of a satellite at such a height could only be explained by something other than general reflectance. Perhaps a large rocket motor boosting something to a higher orbit? Or a particular highly reflective surface oriented perfectly to reflect sunlight over a small area on the ground?
It could have been an airplane flying very high. Probably a little higher than the highest altitudes typical long distance commercial airliners fly at around 40,000 feet/12,000 meters. The lack of any blinking navigational lights argues against this being a plane, as does the fact that it disappears well before it gets close enough to the horizon for atmospheric haze to dim the light until it can no longer be seen. Lastly, international flights do not tend to fly West to East that far south over the Atlantic Ocean. Even New York to Paris flights pass well to the north of the UK. South American flights to Europe tend to past much further to the south and are moving more NE than what you recorded. Any flights originating in the UK would not have already been that high when they passed over your location in East Sussex.
I've caught lots of satellites passing through my other images and it takes roughly 2 mins to completely go in and out of frame... So 21 mins is a fair difference for a higher satellite?
Fast moving satellites are in very low orbits. Orbital velocity for a 100 mile (161 km) high orbit is 17,478 mph (28,128 km/h). So as that satellite moves directly overhead, it is moving at 17,000+ mph while only 100 miles away from you. That looks pretty fast!
The higher a satellite's orbit, the slower it moves relative to the the Earth's surface.
Geostationary satellites are in orbit 22,236 miles (35,786 km) above the earth and complete one orbit of the earth in the same amount of time it takes the earth to make one rotation. If it is in an equatorial orbit, it stays above the same spot on the Earth's surface all the time (give or take a few fractions of a degree or arc due to orbital perturbations caused by solar wind, gravity waves, the gravitational influence of the Moon, Sun, and to a much lesser degree, other solar system planets, etc.). If it is in a declined orbit, it appears to move up and down in the sky over the same spot with one complete cycle every 24 hours.
Any satellite in an orbit higher than geostationary will appear, from the Earth's surface, to be going backwards relative to the direction of its orbit.
The Moon is in orbit above the Earth at an average height of almost 250,000 miles (400,000 km) and takes almost 28 days to complete one orbit. Its ground track actually moves backwards over the Earth relative to the direction of its orbit because the Earth is spinning 28X faster than the Moon's orbital period. Relative to the ground, the moon moves its own angular width (roughly 1/2°) every thirty seconds. It takes all night (or all day, or a combination of both, depending on its phase) for the Moon to move across the sky as seen from the ground. Relative to the ground, the stars are moving ever so slightly faster. In each 24 hour period, the Moon moves roughly 13 degrees less than the stars, or about its own width each hour relative to the stars.
If this was a plane doesn't that mean that it was higher up than the satellites if its passing slower?
Planes aren't in orbit. They use aerodynamic lift and engine thrust to stay at a certain height. Without that lift and engine thrust, they would fall to the ground fairly quickly. Satellites in very low Earth orbit must travel much faster than the fastest plane in history.
It never continued all the way through, just slowly got darker.
Differences in brightness of satellites as they pass overhead can be easily explained if they are rotating or tumbling, or if their solar arrays - which are often their most reflective parts - are moving to stay aligned with the Sun rather than the Earth. They can also disappear while above the horizon when they pass into the Earth's shadow (or appear out of the Earth's shadow while already over the horizon), though this tends to happen mostly with lower flying orbits and at times closer to sunset or sunrise.
If an orbit is high enough, a satellite can be in sunlight for a complete orbit, particularly if the declination of the orbit is not in line with the plane of the ecliptic. Consider the Moon: it only passes into the Earth's shadow on the rare occasions when its orbit crosses the plane of the ecliptic precisely at the same time it is in opposition to the Sun (a full moon). If the Moon crosses the plane of the ecliptic even a few hours before or after it is full, there is no eclipse. True, it is at nearly 250,000 miles, but even geostationary orbits are high enough that they rarely pass through the umbra (the darkest part) of the Earth's shadow.
I'm fairly new into the astrophotography scene. I know there are a lot of people on here with more experience than me. So is there any chance of it being (a) near earth asteroid?
It's not very likely at all it is a near Earth asteroid. An asteroid would generally take days or even months to move that far relative to the stars in the celestial sphere, not minutes. An asteroid would also be much dimmer than what you recorded and probably not detectable at all with the setup you used. If there were an asteroid that much closer than geostationary orbit large enough to reflect sunlight and be detectable from the Earth's surface with your camera and lens in the amount of light pollution you're seeing from your shooting position, it would be ALL over the news that the sky is falling!
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Took out the spreadsheet.
The angle 2α increases with the altitude of the satellite. (cos(α)==R/R+h). This 2α is the part of the satellite's orbit that you can see, so knowing the period of the satellite (also a function of altitude) the durection of the visible fly-over can be evaluated.
The fly-over time of a satellite going from horizon to horizon and above your head is around 6mn for a 200km orbit. and at 1500km the fly-over is 23mn. So, if this is a satellite:
- It is very far away (this is the limit of "Low Earth Orbits").
- Given the distance it is very bright
- However, 1AM is UK is pretty much the middle if the night, so anything in your field of view is in the earth shadow (the α above ia bout 30° so two hours. And at 1AM you are much more that two hours away from sunset or sunrise).
On the other hand, an airliner in flight is also an object that moves at constant speed at a constant altitude, so the same computation can be done, and a plane flying at 12000m and 900km/h (typical values for airliners) takes 50mn to fly over you from horizon to horizon, so this 23mn streak is roughly compatible with a plane. Any hints of blink lights or it just a single pixel?
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there is no hints of any blinking lights. I have added a cropped image in the original post for you or any one else to see – Harvey Shelley Apr 29 '20 at 17:20
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1000pixels in 23mins; 0.7 pixel/second, maybe not enough to make a 1Hz blink visible. With an accurate time and a plan with FlightRadar24, you could find the plane. – xenoid Apr 29 '20 at 17:56
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Having said that, it looks to me like there is evidence of blinking in the example image, so it most likely is a very high flying plane. There are "gaps" in the line at regular intervals. Do those gaps correspond to the short interval between each frame? – Michael C Apr 29 '20 at 18:08
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@Michael C hi Michael, yes those gaps are the time between each image ending and starting again,every blink equates to the 41 images taken for the image. – Harvey Shelley Apr 29 '20 at 18:15
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@Michael C Im fairly new into the astrophotography scene, I know there are a lot of people on here with more experience than me, so is there any chance of it being near earth asteroid? I suppose you cant really suggest what you think it is? I mean iv caught lots of satellites passing through my other images and it takes roughly 2 mins to completely go in and out of frame... So 21 mins is a fair difference for a higher satellite? If this was a plane doesn't that mean that it was higher up than the satellites if its passing slower? – Harvey Shelley Apr 29 '20 at 18:20
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@MichaelC I know... And I didn't use orbital speed for the plane. But during a long flight, a plane is an object that moves at constant speed at a constant altitude, so you can do the very same computation to estimate the time it will take from one side of your horizon to its opposite. – xenoid Apr 29 '20 at 19:41
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@Michael C well that went over my head lol! I will have another look on skyguide and skysafari again, I did check both twice on the time and constellations with no success of finding anythink pass by at that time? what else could you suggest me trying, which would be relatively easy to use thanks – Harvey Shelley Apr 29 '20 at 19:43
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@xenoid, I was replying to Harvey's comment asking if a plane moves slower does that mean it is higher above the ground than a faster moving satellite. – Michael C Apr 29 '20 at 19:54
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@Michael C iv had a look on heavens above and entered my location which is all good and also backtracked to the correct date and time, do I need to be checking this in amateur radio satellites? if not please could someone tell me what one it should be – Harvey Shelley Apr 29 '20 at 20:09
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@xenoid The object did not transit anything close to from horizon to horizon in 23 minutes. It only moved about 20 degrees in the sky during that time. – Michael C Apr 29 '20 at 20:24
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Yes, that means it is somewhat slower, so if it were a satellite it would be even higher and out of sight. We are taling about 5000km. This is 10-12 times farther than your usual LEO satellites, making the satellites 10 times smaller and 100 times dimmer (5 orders of magnitude...). – xenoid Apr 29 '20 at 20:43
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So if it was an airplane, why did it disappear while still fairly high in the sky? It was much too high for the atmospheric haze to eat up the light when it disappeared. It should have continued on for another 30-40 minutes until it was only about 10-15° above the horizon. – Michael C Apr 29 '20 at 20:56
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That path is not a typical high altitude flight path for long, international flights, either. Nothing flying from one part of the UK to another, or flying from the UK to anywhere in Eastern Europe would climb that high. – Michael C Apr 29 '20 at 20:58
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1@Michael C iv just attached another image to original post to show in comparison the size difference of the low satellite and then the higher. I would actually say the higher one is brighter? would u agree – Harvey Shelley Apr 29 '20 at 20:58
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@Michael C so has it been deciphered that it is a satellite of some description? – Harvey Shelley Apr 29 '20 at 21:06
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@HarveyShelley It's hard to say. If it is a spacecraft/satellite, it was probably only that bright if a very large rocket motor was firing to raise it to a higher orbit. Which means six days after the fact it can't be located using Heavens Above, because the information there is based on a satellite's current orbit projected into the future and back into the past, rather than its actual historical orbit. But a 20+ minute burn is highly unlikely for anything that high. Not many craft would have enough fuel to burn that long at that height unless they are highly classified. – Michael C Apr 29 '20 at 21:17
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Large rocket motor... firing for 23 miniutes? Over the UK? That would be a big launch... easy to find in the press (Starlink or else). – xenoid Apr 29 '20 at 21:28
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@Michael C so would u say this is quite a regular thing to capture? I cant say iv seen a lot of other stuff like this.If I ever manage to capture something like this again was u saying its vital to get back onto heavens above straight away then would of had more of a idea as to what it is, u are saying its too late to find out from that now – Harvey Shelley Apr 29 '20 at 21:30
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@xenoid One must also account for the fact that planes flying overhead do not maintain a constant degrees-per-minute rate as they pass from one horizon to the other. Due to the angles, they appear to be moving much faster, and thus cover more degrees of arc, when higher overhead than they do when lower in the sky near the horizon. The top of the first example photo is within 15° or so of the zenith. When object disappears 20 minutes later, it is still about 60° above the horizon (based on the position of Eltanin). – Michael C Apr 29 '20 at 21:31
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@xenoid did u see the other image I attached. what was you edging towards – Harvey Shelley Apr 29 '20 at 21:31
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@xenoid Not a launch. It's nowhere near THAT bright. I agree, 20+ minutes is highly unlikely, but not impossible for an orbital adjustment (as I mentioned in my comment above). – Michael C Apr 29 '20 at 21:33
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@HarveyShelley If it is an orbital adjustment, you'd need to look at Heavens Above before that satellite's orbital information has been updated. I don't know what the intervals for updating there are, but they are fairly prompt. If you do look before the update, the position at the beginning of the burn would be much more accurate that at the end of the burn, when the object would be in its new orbit. – Michael C Apr 29 '20 at 21:36
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@HarveyShelley Were you able to identify the dimmer, faster moving satellite using Heavens Above? – Michael C Apr 29 '20 at 21:39
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Sadir (upsilon-Cygnus) is almost at the bottom of the frame. It was 35° above the horizon in East Sussex at 01:25 on 2020/04/23. Eta-Draco at the top of the frame was 75° above the horizon from that location at that time. The camera seems to have been tilted about 30° relative to the horizon. – Michael C Apr 29 '20 at 21:52
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@Michael C I did have a look. am I looking at daily predictions for brighter satelittes then clicking on the minimum brightness of 3? I obviously backtracked to the day and time.it started in my image just after 1pm so how do I know what time to match with?Start time, highest point time or end time? in theory in my image I saw all 3? so should be looking for something starting at 1am and ending around 1.20 ish – Harvey Shelley Apr 29 '20 at 21:53
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Don't forget that "time on pixels" makes stars look much brighter than equally bright satellites in the same image. The same rule applies to the two satellites in the frame. If they're the same brightness, the one that moves further will be dimmer in the photo because the same amount of light is spread out over a larger number of pixels. – Michael C Apr 29 '20 at 21:55
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@Michael C . Now u said that about time on pixels that makes total sense and never thought of that. – Harvey Shelley Apr 29 '20 at 21:59
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@Michael C in reply to the sadir comment, I didn't specifically level my image, it was more about getting as much as I could in the frame in back garden. So if u have found out those stars and degrees, could u work it out from them – Harvey Shelley Apr 29 '20 at 22:02
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@xenoid Please also keep in mind that the observing location was at 50° north latitude. Due to the Earth's tilt, during late spring and summer, satellites can be seen in the north at much earlier and later times than from locations closer to the equator. The north pole at sea level is illuminated continuously from vernal equinox in March to autumnal equinox in September... – Michael C Apr 29 '20 at 23:08
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At 01:00 a.m. on 2020/04/23 at the OP's location, the Sun was only 24° below the northern horizon. – Michael C Apr 29 '20 at 23:16



