In the movie Avengers: Endgame, Tony (Iron Man) is memorialized at the end of the movie with a funeral attended by the Avengers and their friends, but why didn't Black Widow get the same treatment?
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3Wow! Three answers from the same article. Were we all working on it? – A J May 03 '19 at 12:15
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@AJ guess this article contains so much answers to potential questions, we all memorized a two-click path to go and fetch it... :D – Jenayah May 03 '19 at 12:16
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@Jenayah I added more links :P – Ankit Sharma May 03 '19 at 12:25
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5Her funeral was throwing the bench in the lake, like how they floated Tony's arc reactor away. – Azor Ahai -him- May 03 '19 at 21:31
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@AzorAhai I think he threw it clear over the lake, into the next lake. – Harper - Reinstate Monica May 03 '19 at 22:30
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One major difference is that with Tony, they had a body. Natasha is on another planet in the past and possibly inside the Soul Stone? Not sure how that works exactly, but clearly they don't have a body for a number of reasons, which would make a proper funeral a bit more difficult. (Also they're maybe holding out hope of getting her back - they managed it with Gamora, so we know it's possible, once time travel is a thing...) – Darrel Hoffman May 04 '19 at 04:37
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This was addressed in an interview - basically, who says she didn't/won't?
Some people felt like Natasha deserved a funeral just like Tony. [...] The Russos cleared the air regarding this topic as well:
Q: Why didn’t Black Widow get a funeral as well?
A: Did you forget when the heroes were mourning for her after when they returned from the past? Maybe her funeral happened off screen. Maybe it will be shown in future installment because there are still tons of stories in MCU that are waiting to be told.
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3What a lame excuse. Reality is that Marvel never promoted her as much as the other Avengers, or any of their female characters really, even Ms. Marvel. – user May 06 '19 at 08:24
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@user - because Natasha was a second tier character (like Hawkeye). And Ms. Marvel was a bust from the beginning. All the promotion would have failed. How has Captain Marvel's comic sales done after tens of millions of dollars worth of promotion? Oh yeah. It's tanked. Ms. Marvel was booooring. Natasha was awesome. Hopefully the Black Widow movie will be good. – Mayo Jul 17 '19 at 13:28
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@user - I was referring to the comic book - not the movie franchise. Ms. Marvel, AFAIK, has not been in a movie. – Mayo Jul 17 '19 at 13:47
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From screenrant
During a Q&A with Avengers: Endgame co-director Joe Russo posted on Chinese website Tencent QQ (and translated by Reddit), the lack of this scene was finally addressed. In typical Russo fashion though, he suggested many possible explanations for why it's not in the movie.
Did you forget when the heroes where mourning for her after when they returned from past? Maybe her funeral happened off screen. Maybe it will be shown in future installment, because there are still tons of stories in MCU that are waiting to be tell.
Additionally, co-writer Christopher Markus gave his own explanation too
As Markus told The New York Times, "Tony gets a funeral. Natasha doesn’t. That’s partly because Tony’s this massive public figure and she’s been a cipher the whole time. It wasn’t necessarily honest to the character to give her a funeral."
Also from IGN (expressing mostly same motives)
McFeely explained: "Her journey, in our minds, had come to an end if she could get the Avengers back. She comes from such an abusive, terrible, mind-control background, so when she gets to Vormir and she has a chance to get the family back, that’s a thing she would trade for."
He continued, "The toughest thing for us was we were always worried that people weren’t going to have time to be sad enough. The stakes are still out there and they haven’t solved the problem. But we lost a big character — a female character — how do we honor it? We have this male lens and it’s a lot of guys being sad that a woman died."
Ankit Sharma
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5I'm not sure I understand what the point of the last paragraph is? Is there more context in the article? – Azor Ahai -him- May 03 '19 at 15:43
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2@AzorAhai I think it's a confusion on whether it's appropriate in the current socio-political climate to have a female that's mourned almost entirely by male coworkers. Did she not exist outside of work and handsome dudes? It would have been easier if it had been Hawkeye who died, because he at least had a family. Which are basically the same reasons it was easier to have a funeral for Tony. – zibadawa timmy May 03 '19 at 22:00
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1@zibadawatimmy Hmm, I'm not sure that would be that objectionable? There are a lot of problems with women in the MCU (and calling them "female[s]"), but BW being mourned by her well-established closest friends doesn't seem that unusual. Plus, it seems like she's made friends with Okoye, CM, and SW (if this is post-unSnap) and she even calls everyone her "family." – Azor Ahai -him- May 03 '19 at 22:17
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The bigger problem is that the Dusting was very misogynistic, and took every female hero but Natasha (and Nebula). Partly because those female heroes had been added to bust "Smurfette effect" because Hollywood was getting called out for that... and for narrative reasons, the Dusting also rolled the Avengers back to the original six. (+ Rocket + Nebula because it wouldn't have been beleivable that all the Guardians dusted). – Harper - Reinstate Monica May 03 '19 at 22:41
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@zibadawatimmy Ant-Man was one of the Avengers ever? Also he was presumed to be dusted... – Harper - Reinstate Monica May 03 '19 at 22:48
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@Harper He's in Civil War, which was entirely about a schism and war within the Avengers. And in the comics he spends several years as an Avenger, at least, though I can't remember if it included the original Thanos storyline. – zibadawa timmy May 03 '19 at 22:57
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I don't know, Ant-Man was only invited to join the rebels. It's like if, in that other civil war, the CSA had invited Cuba to join as a Confederate state, when they lost that wouldn't make Cuba a US state. He definitely joined the Avengers in 2023 though. – Harper - Reinstate Monica May 03 '19 at 23:05
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@zibadatimmy: Antman appears after the schism. The movie (and Homecoming) makes clear that Spiderman (his equivalent in the other team) is not an Avenger (yet) – Taladris May 05 '19 at 10:41
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1So basically it's the result of Marvel having painted themselves into a corner by having poor representation for women in the entire MCU up to that point, with BW's death being the ultimate expression of it. – user May 06 '19 at 08:28
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It could have happened off-screen or might happen in upcoming films.
As Joe Russo explains,
Did you forget when the heroes where mourning for her after when they returned from past? Maybe her funeral happened off screen. Maybe it will be shown in future installment, because there are still tons of stories in MCU that are waiting to be tell.
But Christopher Markus says,
Tony gets a funeral. Natasha doesn’t. That’s partly because Tony’s this massive public figure and she’s been a cipher the whole time. It wasn’t necessarily honest to the character to give her a funeral
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