While there are exceptions the majority of cars use fuses instead of circuit breakers to protect electronics and I'm wondering why circuit breakers are not more widely used. Is it practicality, cost, regulations or a combination of those factors?
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3$$$. And weather/conditions. Hard to find a breaker that holds up in automotive conditions, or trips the same at -20F vs 160F from the car baking in the desert sun all day. – Harper - Reinstate Monica Sep 21 '22 at 04:05
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3I don't know if I agree with the breakers holding up in weather conditions, light airplanes have a DC electrical system and use breakers instead of fuses. The breakers have to hold up in a very wide variety of conditions and they've always worked for me. – GdD Sep 21 '22 at 07:42
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@GdD but as soon as you get to aviation, the price/reliability point changes - you have to have robust breakers so you have to pay for them. Cars do have rather a lot of fuses as well – Chris H Sep 21 '22 at 08:44
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4Completely true @ChrisH, I'm just saying reliability isn't an insurmountable issue. I'm not drawing a parallel between planes and cars, I need to be able to reset my avionics in flight as it could impact safety, if my radio goes out in my car it's an annoyance. – GdD Sep 21 '22 at 08:56
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2@GdD indeed, and even total electric failure on a fast road (not a fuse - mechanic didn't do up the main earth strap properly) is safer than in the air. One thing I wondered is how many breakers you might have in a fairly simple light aircraft – Chris H Sep 21 '22 at 09:03
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3@Harper-ReinstateMonica "Hard to find a breaker that [...] trips the same at -20F vs 160F..." - To be fair, fuses also don't trip the same at those temperatures; they fuse by melting a wire, and that depends on ambient temperature as well as current. This document has some interesting information including graphs. – marcelm Sep 21 '22 at 09:16
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1It depends @ChrisH, the ones I fly typically have around 10. They are all push button type, some are designed so you can pull them to cut off power, for instance if there's a runaway trim condition, so it's a different use case. – GdD Sep 21 '22 at 09:37
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@marcelm Yes, but that little wire has tremendously lower mass and operates at a much higher temperature than the "thermal trip" section of a breaker. That is a bimetal strip attached to a mechanism linkage and two current paths in and out, whcih conduct heat away from it. And it can't get too hot or it would endanger reusability or the molded case of the breaker. The mass+cool operating temp makes the breaker much more sensitive to ambient. – Harper - Reinstate Monica Sep 21 '22 at 18:28
6 Answers
(1) Fuses are cheap. Really cheap. You can get a variety pack of 100 for $8 or so. Circuit breakers for 12V systems are available, but are not cheap (more like $10 each). My car has 40 or 50 circuits, so that is a large chunk of change.
(2) Fuses are small and can be put into tight spaces, much smaller than you can get your fingers into. Look at your main fuse box and consider just how large it would get with breakers, even the push-button ones.
(3) Breakers are great for circuits you want to turn off, or quickly turn back on. But neither of those really comes into play on a car - 12V won't kill you, unlike your house wiring.
(4) Mostly your car just runs. In 45 years of driving I've never replaced a fuse.
(5) Circuit breakers have mechanical parts that need to move when needed, and not move when not needed. Cars experience shock and vibration through their lifetime, making the simple fuse a more reliable way to protect a circuit.
(6) from @Criggie, particularly in the engine bay there is oil, dust, water, etc. Fuses don't notice, many breakers will not like that. You can get marine grade breakers that are sealed, but that adds cost.
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45b. add Moisture and Oil contamination too - fuses don't have moving parts and the contacts can be fairly well sealed. – Criggie Sep 21 '22 at 00:02
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2Strange that you've never had to change a fuse. I probably average one every 2-3 years, but I do tend to run quite old vehicles. Most recently something must have shorted the 12V/lighter sockets as I was only using one of them for a USB charger which still works. I have had them go n other circuits though. Stuck electric windows or their switches can blow fuses due to the stall current in the motor, for example – Chris H Sep 21 '22 at 08:49
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7@ChrisH - perhaps luck of the draw. On average I keep a vehicle about 15 years. I do always carry a set of replacements, so perhaps that deters the ones in use from failing... – Jon Custer Sep 21 '22 at 12:45
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1@ChrisH: Adding to anecdata, across the six cars I've owned in my lifetime (including the cars driven primarily by my wife), I've never replaced a single fuse. Five of those cars (two '90 Geo Prizms, an '00 Maxima, and an '06 and '10 Prius) were still in use by myself or a close family member beyond 10 years of use (and the '14 Leaf is eight years old now). I believe I remember one car (an Oldsmobile?) of my grandfather's needed a fuse replacement once back in the '80s, aside from that, I've never personally known of a car that needed one. Never carried replacements either. knocks on wood – ShadowRanger Sep 22 '22 at 01:50
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@ShadowRanger most of the cars I've owned or cared for were 10--15 years old by the time I got rid of them. My campervan (which is all I have these days) is 18. But I'm not sure how much age makes a difference - I had a few go randomly on a 2005 Corsa that we got rid of in 2013 – Chris H Sep 22 '22 at 08:46
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- Lucky? Last year the water in my screen-wash bottle froze because I'd forgotten to reinforce the mixture for cold weather, and trying to pump ice took out the screen-washer fuse. Much preferable to taking out the screen-washer.
– nigel222 Sep 22 '22 at 15:43 -
1Maybe another reason why cars don't melt the fuses so often: homes have outlets that you plug all sorts of devices into, any of which may be faulty, or you can also accidentally overload the wiring by plugging in too many things at once. A car runs only what it has built-in, so unless some part fails, the breaker/fuse doesn't have to trip. – FZs Sep 22 '22 at 18:55
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Now I wonder if it would be handy to have breakers for the cigarette lighter sockets (and nothing else) – user253751 Sep 22 '22 at 19:21
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@user253751 - not a bad idea, particularly if it is put in an easy-to-access place. Although some folks would likely just tape it in place. (Yes, of course, they can just put a bigger fuse in despite the risks.) – Jon Custer Sep 22 '22 at 19:23
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@JonCuster a fun fact about many (all?) home circuit breakers is they will still trip even if you hold the lever in the not-tripped position. They are, of course, designed this way on purpose. – user253751 Sep 22 '22 at 19:23
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1@user253751 - didn't say the tape would work! One issue of course is handle-tied breakers, where the one really needs to move to trip the other... – Jon Custer Sep 22 '22 at 19:33
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@JonCuster Google tells me handle ties are allowed as "common disconnect" (valid for MWBC?) but not "common trip" - "common trip" breakers have another mechanism (like pins that stick out the side). Though I suspect all practical common-trip use-cases are covered by single breakers with multiple poles. – user253751 Sep 22 '22 at 19:36
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@nigel222 I've had the same, only I had remembered to increase the screenwash concentration, just not to pump enough through that the lines were full of the strong stuff. – Chris H Sep 23 '22 at 13:34
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I've been an electrician since the mid 80s. I do home, commercial and some light industrial. Your original comment about home wiring killing you is incorrect. Only when water is involved. And GFCI have just about fixed that. – Willie Weed Jul 14 '23 at 02:24
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@WillieWeed - well, all the other 800+ pages in NFPA 70 help as well. I hope you still aren't installing 3-prong dryer and oven plugs. Water had nothing to do with the deaths those caused. – Jon Custer Jul 14 '23 at 14:00
I don't have a definitive answer, but believe it is a combination of factors and boils down to the following:
- Cost: While both do the job of protecting circuits, a fuse runs you cents per unit, while breakers can cost you dollars per unit. When you consider in a modern vehicle, there are probably 30 to 50 circuits which need protection, that creates a large cost overall to try and run breakers.
- Practicality: Size is a large consideration here. Fuses have a very small footprint when you compare them to breakers. Engineers trying to create fuse panels in vehicles have very limited space in which to put a fuse panel. If you were to create a breaker panel, you'd have to allocate a lot more space to this endeavor.
Another factor (not sure how or if it fits in with the above) to consider is, as long as the owner of a vehicle doesn't start putzing around and changing things in the vehicle, the circuit stays in tact and the fuse is never truly needed. Engineers design enough overhead into a circuit the systems of the vehicle will most likely never overload one, and therefore the fuse will never need to be replaced. The fuse is there on the off chance something happens which was not accounted for and can stop a chain reaction of events which might otherwise have serious consequences for the vehicle and all aboard. The fuse can do this at a much lower cost than the breaker, so this fits into both a cost and practicality reasoning.
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1@JonCuster - Sorry if I stepped on your toes on this one ... the internet is slow here at work and it took me a LONG time to get this answer in. I've been working on it for some time now, lol. – Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 Sep 20 '22 at 13:25
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Based on other comments, there are some reasonable scenarios where fuses blow (moving things getting jammed) so maybe the point about fuses never being needed is a bit optimistic. – user253751 Sep 22 '22 at 19:23
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@user253751 - I'm not sure if you were saying that to me or just to say it. If it was to me (which I can assume because it was under my answer), I'm not quite sure why. If you read my entire answer, I didn't say it would never be needed, but rather, it would never be needed under normal circumstances. Usually the things not under normal circumstances are when the car is in an accident or the owner starts putting things in which weren't accounted for in the original design & overloads a circuit. I stated "As long as the circuit stays intact" meaning, it remains unchanged from original design. – Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 Sep 22 '22 at 20:39
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... surely a washer tank that freezes in winter is part of the original design – user253751 Sep 22 '22 at 20:43
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@user253751 - Well, I've never had a washer tank go bad either, so ... And I grew up in Montana where it could get to 30 below on the F scale. – Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 Sep 22 '22 at 21:03
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The way the original design accommodates such unusual scenarios IS the fusebox. It's literally why it's part of the design. For those cases. – barbecue Sep 23 '22 at 12:09
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@barbecue - Exactly. And if none of those scenarios ever come to fruition, it's basically there for looks :o) It is there for an eventuality which may never come. – Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 Sep 23 '22 at 12:48
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I suspect that freezing washer tanks is less of an issue in places with reliably harsh winters - you need to have a routine for winterising your car. Here, where we can go a whole winter only dipping a few degrees below freezing, something like -10°C or 10°F can catch you out – Chris H Sep 23 '22 at 13:36
In addition to the other good answers:
You'll see self-resetting circuit breakers in heavy-truck applications, which is a far more abusive environment, and prone to intermittent faults (esp. in trailer circuits).
From my personal experience, most blown fuses are from trailer wiring problems, and the rest are from people plugging things into the "power ports" ("cigarette lighters" for us geezers). Very rare to see other fuses blow besides a short circuit from a collision.
So as the others have answered, in a car the cost/size/complexity outweigh any advantages.
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With one notable exception, automotive fuses almost never blow in the absence of a catastrophic failure such as a crash which causes wiring to be severed. One of the primary purposes of the fuses is to prevent the wiring from overheating and starting a fire if that happens. In such a case, having to replace fuses would be the least of one's worries.
The notable exception is with the "cigarette lighter" socket, whose current delivery capacity varies between vehicles. If one plugs in a 120V inverter which is designed to be able to convert more current than a car's socket is designed for, and plugs a high-draw AC device into it, that will blow the fuse, but there's no nice way for a user to know in advance how much of a load could be placed on the inverter without blowing the fuse. A circuit breaker there would IMHO be an improvement over the fuse.
Additionally, many cars have (or at least used to have) a self-resetting breaker driving the windshield wiper motor. This was intended not only to protect the wiring, but also to protect the motor in case the wipers are jammed up (e.g. with ice). When the motor is stalled, it will draw much more current, and generate much more heat, than when it is running; the breaker would be chosen so that it would pass the motor's stall current for a short period of time, but eventually trip if the wipers are left on while stalled.
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1Of course, someone who designs things that plug into a 12V socket should know what they are fused for (mine are 20A fuses), and the device should not exceed that. But then there is Amazon... There is a reason I have an aux battery system and some pretty hefty fuses on it... – Jon Custer Sep 22 '22 at 13:14
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1The owners manual ought to say what the current limit is. If it doesn't state it explicitly, it does implicitly: go to the diagram of the fusebox and look for the amperage of the cigar-lighter fuse! – nigel222 Sep 22 '22 at 15:47
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1@JonCuster: Some cars' utility sockets are fused for 20A, some for 15A, and some for 10A. Further, many inverters are designed so they can accept power from either a lighter socket or pair of alligator/crocodile clips, lugs, or other such means. In retrospect, it would have been useful to either have a standard for adding pegs, notches, etc. to utility sockets to indicate how much current they could supply, or better yet have a set of standards for adapters and connectors so that if one plugged a suitable adapter into a car's socket, it would only work with devices that were suitable, or... – supercat Sep 22 '22 at 15:48
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1...were capable of adjusting their current draw. For example, an adapter suitable for use in a 15A socket could have a connector that would accept a two-pin 5A, 10A, or 15A plug, or a three-pin auto-sensing plug, but would not accept a two-pin 20A plug. On the other hand, I've also long thought that the connector found on PCs and such (I forget the name) should have been designed so that cables with 120V mains plugs would have a notch in one spot, those with 220V mains plugs would have a notch in the other, devices that needed one voltage or the other would have a projection... – supercat Sep 22 '22 at 15:52
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1...in their socket to only accept the right cable, those with a voltage switch would put it in the socket so that a plug could only be inserted if the switch was set correctly, and auto-sensing devices could accept both plugs interchangeably. But of course that didn't happen either. – supercat Sep 22 '22 at 15:53
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No doubt, it is all really hard to pin down without looking at the fuses (or the owners manual if it mentions it). Coupled with dodgy suppliers, that fuse is probably the most vulnerable one. It is really only in the last year or three that cars have started supplying multiple charge points in the cabin. – Jon Custer Sep 22 '22 at 15:57
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@nigel222: Yes, but if a socket is marked 5A and one has a 200W inverter that one wants to use to power a small appliance, how should one judge whether the socket would be suitable for the purpose? The "cigarette lighter socket" is really not a good design for a power connector, since among other things it has very little protection against metal objects falling in and shorting, and someone who has a vehicle with 5 amp sockets and one with a 20A socket should be able to use the same inverter in both. – supercat Sep 22 '22 at 16:02
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@supercat - one of the reasons I prefer Andersons for my additions to my wiring. The cigarette plugs are a horrible design, but legacy stuff is hard to get rid of. (On the other hand, my son's new car has USB-C connectors rather than USB-A, necessitating getting a new batch of cords - sigh.) – Jon Custer Sep 22 '22 at 16:25
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How about an socket shaped like a sideways "E", with the horizontal part being USB-A, the middle vertical part being +12 volts, and the sideways parts having a depth that represents the allowable current, and have a contact near the top connected to a resistor to report the allowable current electrically? One could easily make adapters for vehicles with 5, 10, 15, or 20 amp sockets, and such an adapter could be used with either USB or a high-current 12-volt cable. – supercat Sep 22 '22 at 17:49
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@supercat that'll depend on what you plug into the inverter. If you can't find its efficiency, it's unlikely to be worse than 80%. So you can use an appliance of 5A x 12V x 80% = 48 Watts. More would be pushing it. (Fuses are cheap) – nigel222 Sep 23 '22 at 08:34
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In old enough cars a broken clip can cause a wiring loom to rub, and eventually abrade through the insulation. Old insulation in the engine bay can get quite brittle as well – Chris H Sep 23 '22 at 13:38
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@nigel222: Yes, but of course many appliances draw variable amounts of power that rarely approach their nameplate rating. If one factors in the fact that circuits and fuses are sized to accommodate momentary overcurrent for things like motor startup, it would be hard to judge what will works and what will blow a fuse. – supercat Sep 23 '22 at 14:51
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@ChrisH: Even in those cases, a fuse won't blow unless something else is severely wrong. The only common situations where a fuse in a properly-designed device can blow without something being severely and persistently wrong with it are those where (1) the fuse is connected to external equipment that draws too much current or supplies too much voltage, or (2) the fuse is connected to a motor that can be intermittently stalled. – supercat Sep 23 '22 at 14:56
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@supercat (3) when insulation abrades or degrades the wire can easily short to the bodywork (often the same bit of metal that abraded it in the first place). I thought that was obvious but apparently not. Not really a design flaw, but a foreseeable failure mode. The cars I've seen that on were built in the 80s and 90s, and at least 10 years old when I had them – Chris H Sep 24 '22 at 15:45
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@ChrisH: Yes, but if the insulation in a wire abrades to that point, I'd regard that as "something being severely wrong" that should be repaired. It's possible that replacing a fuse after an intermittent short may restore the circuit to operation, but if the problem is never fixed repeated shorting may cause further damage. – supercat Sep 24 '22 at 16:17
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Agreed that replacing the fuse isn't the fix. Replacing it and securing the wire might be a decent temporary fix, but really you need new wiring – Chris H Sep 24 '22 at 18:39
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@ChrisH: My point is that breakers are better than fuses for situations where a transitory situation that causes an overload would usually be resolved without having to repair or replace anything. Requiring that a fuse be replaced in a situation where no other repair or replacement would be needed is irksome. If other repairs or replacements are needed, the additional requirement to replace a fuse would be a much smaller burden. – supercat Sep 24 '22 at 18:57
I'll add one factor which the other already good answers didn't mention in detail: weight.
Modern cars have several dozens of fuses, each one weighing a couple of grams. Imagine replacing them with even the smallest automatic breaker you find, for example this:
and look at the specs:
It weighs ten times more! Not mentioning it's much bigger and the endurance against the environmental conditions is nowhere suitable for a car. And improving its tolerance against an adverse environment will probably add still more weight.
Bottom line: you'll end up adding kilograms of weight for no more than a very small convenience (resetting a breaker instead to change a blown fuse, event which in normal car operation is quite rare). In exchange you will have a heavier and more expensive car.
Fuses and circuit breakers are two kinds of overcurrent protection; both protect from two kinds of events:
- Short circuit, in which a positive conductor touches the common/ground. This causes instant, nearly infinite current.
- Overload, in which too many devices each operate normally but simultaneously. This causes current that is too high for safety, though much less than a short circuit.
Short circuits happen only if something breaks, which is rare. Replacing a fuse is a small fraction of the cost of diagnosis and repair of an electrical problem. The small convenience of breakers can’t justify their extra cost.
Overload protection generally isn’t a concern in vehicles, because you rarely connect new electrical devices, especially the high-current devices like the starter and resistance heaters. Again, fuses are cheap and replacement is rare. Overload is more of a concern in buildings: nothing stops you from plugging in a hair dryer, toaster oven, and coffee maker into the same circuit, and this happens frequently enough for the convenience of breakers to justify the cost.
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