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What is the service life of a timing chain and how does having a chain drive cam benefit from a belt drive cam and vice-versa?

Bob Cross
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general exception
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  • TChain Service life varies from vehicle to vehicle, it depends on how well engineered they are and how often the engine oil is changed. – Moab Apr 27 '16 at 17:33
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    I was very tempted to buy an incredibly well priced Audi RS4 with 68k miles, a full service history, new tires, and inspection paperwork from the dealer. until a few quick searches uncovered that in order to shoehorn the big V8 engine into the relatively tiny car, Audi replaced the front mounted belt drive with a rear mounted chain drive. This would have been fine, except they chain they installed tended to break at ~70k miles, and since the chain was mounted against the firewall, the engine had to be pulled to do the repair, for an estimated total of $6000. – MooseLucifer Jun 06 '16 at 16:47

5 Answers5

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Belts are quieter but are often less obviously worn before they break (chains stretch and loosen, belts tend to stay tight without damaged belt teeth up until the moment they snap). Timing belts are also less complicated (chains require an oil bath). Chains are generally stronger, so vehicles with timing chains often drive more than just the cam with the timing chain. Due to stretch, when you change a chain you MUST replace all the timing gears, as the teeth will wear to match the chain stretch. While not necessary on a belt driven system, a failed gear will cause a belt failure and, depending on your engine, could be very bad, so it's generally recommended to replace all idlers and gears in a belt system, too.

The amount of damage caused by a belt breaking vs a chain breaking entirely depends on the type of engine. Engines with really high compression ratios (performance cars that require high-octane fuel, diesels, etc) tend to have the valves and piston heads move such that they could come into contact if the cam stops opening and closing the valves. When a piston head smashes into a valve, you ruin the head, valve, and potentially other cylinders if pieces of shattered valve travel through the air intake system to the other cylinders.

There's a good section on the TDI Club's FAQ about timing belts, as that's what Volkswagon uses on all their turbo diesels. A belt breaking on a TDI is catastrophic. As far as I know, most cars use chains and compression ratios low enough that there's no risk of piston heads smashing into an open valve should the chain break. You can't retrofit a belt system to use a chain, you wouldn't want to do the reverse, but I have seen people replace belts and chains with direct gear drives.

bobpaul
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  • Most engines I have come across are interference - i.e. a broken belt will result in pistons hitting valves. It is quite rare (at least in Europe) to find a non-interference engine - Fiat are the only manufacturer I can think of off the top of my head who consistently do so. – Nick C Jan 24 '12 at 09:54
  • All the Toyota engines I can think of at the moment are non-interference. – Brian Knoblauch Jan 24 '12 at 13:07
  • "chains stretch and loosen", not true, they all have tensioners that keep them tight. – Moab Apr 27 '16 at 17:35
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    If chains didn't stretch, they wouldn't need tensions. Metal bushings on chains stretch widening the gaps between the rollers. This isn't a problem as the sprocket will wear with the chain and things will fit fine for many years and thousands of miles. But what's important is one can measure the gap between the rollers on the timing chain to predict when the chain needs replacing. And after enough stretch, a timing chain might have some slack and make noise, indicating it needs replacing. With a timing belt, things often still look fine just before a catastrophic failure. – bobpaul Apr 29 '16 at 22:57
  • I would like to know how you know that belts stay perfectly fine before snapping. Because for example VW suggest some petrol vehicle belts to be inspected only (no regular changes). This tells me that either VW engineers are wrong or you are wrong. If what you said was true, visual inspection would be useless. – Evren Yurtesen Sep 14 '17 at 18:33
  • belts dont stay PERFECTLY fine. but they stay MORE OR LESS fine before snapping. its probably a GENERALIZATION. Manufacturers dont devise maintenance requirements SOLELY based on engineering. They have LEGAL issues to worry about as well as a number of other smaller factors. – agent provocateur Sep 14 '17 at 18:56
  • If something spilled on the belt, the rubber could be damaged. If the belt didn't track properly, the belt could rub. You'd see these things in a visual inspection and change the belt EARLY. VW doesn't advice to only rely on visual inspection; they advice to change the belt every X miles unless a visual inspection indicates early damage. The big thing with visual inspection is you can only really see the rubber exterior, but not the internal threads. When too many threads break it fails suddenly. – bobpaul Sep 15 '17 at 15:34
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    @Moab Not all timing chains have tensioners. And yes they do stretch and loosen, also the teeth on the gears can wear (especially if coated with nylon). At which point an engine may "jump" timing. – Glen Yates Nov 14 '17 at 20:40
  • @Moab, Well, no small block V8 I have ever seen has had a tensioner, they are all nearly identical regardless of manufacturer (Chevy 305, 350; Ford 302, 351, Mopar 318, etc). Just 2 gears and a short chain between them, not really any room or a reason for a tensioner. – Glen Yates Apr 09 '18 at 15:49
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I think we covered this before, but I can't find it... Timing chains have much greater service lives at the expense of slightly more noise and friction, as well as a lot more damage if they break (but odds of breakage are much less than a belt).

Brian Knoblauch
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    There are several questions that sit in the general vicinity of the topic. Here's one: http://mechanics.stackexchange.com/questions/7/does-a-timing-chain-need-maintenance – Bob Cross Jan 24 '12 at 13:19
  • The problem is that you get other symptoms due to stretch before a chain breaks. Belts do not stretch so they feel like they fail all of a sudden. VW recommends up to 360k km, roughly 225k mile. Which is roughly how long chains last also (or difference is perhaps negligible) Source: https://www.volkswagen.de/de/service-zubehoer/teile/motor.html – Evren Yurtesen Sep 14 '17 at 18:39
  • Belts definitely stretch. Many have automatic tensioners. Some have manual tensioners that need to be periodically adjusted. – Brian Knoblauch Sep 14 '17 at 20:08
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I may not be 100% accurate but I think belts have expected lift time of 60k-100k and at 100k they should definitely be changed.

Chains are claimed by a lot of manufacturers to have lifetime duration and shouldn't need to be replaced.

They have been known to break but as Brian mentioned, that's very rare. I've also heard of a more common failure mode with chains where over time the metal stretches which alters the timing, so although everything runs, your car becomes de-tuned and to fix it, requires a chain replacement.

DXM
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  • All the belts I've seen are recommended at 60k miles. However, I have one particular car that required a special oil pump modification to get the hydraulic adjuster to operate and my engine builder wants to see it every 30k miles due to reduced adjuster travel. – Brian Knoblauch Jan 23 '12 at 19:49
  • @BrianKnoblauch: http://www.familycar.com/CarCare/TimingBelt.htm. Looks like my initial SWAG is semi close to what some others are saying. – DXM Jan 23 '12 at 20:05
  • VW recommends up to 360k km, roughly 225k mile. Source: https://www.volkswagen.de/de/service-zubehoer/teile/motor.html – Evren Yurtesen Sep 14 '17 at 18:37
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I own a 2013 Volkswagen Golf TDI. Just recently, I drove a one year NEWER 2014, VW, with a 2.5, 5 cylinder Sportwagon. The 2.0 TDI, and the 2.5 Gas Engine, get the SAME Fuel mileage in town. Its the TDI that saves fuel on the freeway. Yes, the 2.5 Gas engine has the timing chain, and will last the lifetime of the car. The TDI is economical on the freeway, but its HIGHER cost in the beginning, @ purchase, and it's timing belt maintenance/replacement, is why I am going to trade my diesel in, for the gas engine with its timing chain, very soon.

DucatiKiller
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loverofyahshua
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    VW recommends up to 360k km, roughly 225k mile between timing belt changes. I am not sure how the car is more expensive if you have belt because chain lasts roughly same amount of driving and costs much more expensive to change. Chain does NOT last the lifetime of the car, it depends on how much you drive. Source: https://www.volkswagen.de/de/service-zubehoer/teile/motor.html – Evren Yurtesen Sep 14 '17 at 18:45
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Belts:

  1. Normal:

    • Quieter operation
    • Weaker than Chains, higher chance of breakage/damage.
    • Made of elastomeric material which could degrade if comes into contact with petroleum products or other chemicals.
    • Chosen by car manufacturers due to economical reasons.

  2. Worn/Maintenance:

    • Replace @ every ~40k miles or so (very rough estimate)
    • Belts stretch and loosen and cause whining noise before breakage (especially when the car is cold). This is an indicator of a failing belt, pulleys, & tensioners and will let you know that you need to service your belts.
    • Easier to replace. Less time/labor charges. Tends to be less difficult. Usually manufacturers will design cars (with timing belts) to be able to service and replace the belts easily because belts inherently fail more easily and more often.
    • Cheap parts



Chains:

  1. Normal:

    • Much Stronger, Less chance of breakage/damage.
    • Chains are somewhat known to be able to last the entire life of the car.

  2. Worn/Maintenance:

    • Replace when rebuilding or >100k miles (very rough estimate)
    • Harder to tell when the chain needs to be replaced. Will tend to start stretching, but unless severely stretched/damaged, the chain should not cause severe issues with the timing because the teeth will still keep the chain in the right relative location. A worn chain could start rattling. A severely stretched chain could jump teeth and you will have timing issues at that point and if you have a interference type engine, you risk damaging or breaking your valves.
    • Requires replacing/servicing the chain tensioner relatively often
    • Harder to replace. More time/labor charges. Tends to be more difficult. Chains aren't expected to break or require as much servicing, so manufacturers tend to not put as much priority on making it easy to access/service.
    • More expensive parts.

Theres also Direct Drive Gear.




In the end:
The chain is a stronger, longer lasting product, that is harder to diagnose and harder to replace. When and if it breaks, it will break catastrophically without as much warning.
The belt is more regularly replaced and is more telling when it is near its end of life. It is usually easier/faster to replace.

Balance between Durability / Maintenance / Costs

agent provocateur
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  • "Replace @ every ~40k miles or so (very rough estimate)" Most are 90K now. – Moab Apr 27 '16 at 17:27
  • "Chains are somewhat known to be able to last the entire life of the car." nope I replace them frequently on high mileage cars and trucks, long before they head to the junk yard. – Moab Apr 27 '16 at 17:28
  • "Requires replacing/servicing the chain tensioner relatively often" Not true, they only get serviced when it is time for a chain set. – Moab Apr 27 '16 at 17:30
  • @Moab "able to last" has nothing to do with what you prefer to do. I would suggest that it is replaced but my suggestion or preference still has nothing to do with what its "able to do". "relatively often" means often in a "relative" sense, which in this context refers to how often the chain needs to be serviced, so when you service the tensioner at the same time you service the chain, you are in effect performing the service more often than I originally meant by "relatively often". – agent provocateur Apr 27 '16 at 18:48
  • They are not engineered to last the life of the car unless it is a short life, if you do regular maintenance and put enough miles on a t-chain motor it will need replaced. How long have you been working on cars? – Moab Apr 27 '16 at 22:45
  • That is very true, and that is why I would suggest replacing it. Still, what it is designed for is still not the same as what it is "able to do". Not sure why you are still arguing about a different point than the one I made. I never said it doesnt have to be replaced or serviced, in fact I said the opposite. Does seniority in the field mean everything to you? I assume most likely because you probably have a lot of it. – agent provocateur Apr 27 '16 at 22:55
  • The belts break more often only because you get other problems with chains due to stretch way before they break. So, people often end up giving the car to junkyard or changing chain instead. Yes chains break less often. If you have a belt, only thing you have to do is to check it once in a while VW recommends that belts last up to 360k km, roughly 225k mile. Much more than your chain life estimate. Source: https://www.volkswagen.de/de/service-zubehoer/teile/motor.html – Evren Yurtesen Sep 14 '17 at 18:50
  • @EvrenYurtesen OK... you got me. my "chain life estimate" is indeed a ballpark "estimate" (and in my opinion a very conservative estimate although MOAB doesnt think so) and not a specification for a specific chain on a specific car on a specific manufacturer. of course the number I give is NOT THE SAME for EVERY SINGLE chain out there. I think that would be obvious by now especially since this question is not about a SPECIFIC CAR OR MANUFACTURER, like how you are pointing out Volkswagen. – agent provocateur Sep 14 '17 at 18:51
  • its interesting how you guys like to argue against my "VERY ROUGH ESTIMATE" figures and completely fixate on those figures (again, which are supposed to be ballpark estimates) and not at all about the content of what I am trying to say about chains vs belts in general. If you cant tell already, the whole answer is a generalization because the question is a broad question. – agent provocateur Sep 14 '17 at 18:53
  • Times tend to change, oil change intervals become longer, manufacturer and tolerances become better, things like how many Miles until xx maintenance can change over some years, the general ideas I am talking about between chain vs belts change much less often. Those are the important parts of the answer. If all you do is fixate on these specific numbers, then all you are is a technician/mechanic that follows a book and cant think for themselves. – agent provocateur Sep 14 '17 at 19:03
  • I only pointed or VW because I have one and I know the maintenance schedules. But I expect belts to last for similar amounts even for different manufacturers.. Unfortunately with chains you get rattles or misfires before it goes so bad that it breaks. It is very expensive to change chain, so chain often lasts lifetime of vehicle :) But with belt you get the bad taste of a break. Your car was fine one day and next day you have huge repair bill. Human psychology demands immediate decision of belts are bad! I think car manufactures chose belts because they are superior to chains... – Evren Yurtesen Sep 14 '17 at 19:04
  • i would say manufacturers choose belts over chains mainly because its much cheaper for them and it also impacts aftermarket servicing a lot because you NEED to get belts serviced much more often than chains, as opposed to chains, you are more or less OK for a much longer time than belts, relatively. Although there are, of course, a lot of other smaller factors – agent provocateur Sep 14 '17 at 19:07
  • This is not a good answer since the "belts" described in the answer are smooth belts. He's clearly talking about accessory and serpentine belts. Belts used for timing have teeth and won't whine. The whine comes from slipping and a toothed belt shouldn't slip if it's properly tensioned. – bobpaul Sep 22 '17 at 15:48
  • @bobpaul i agree with you, thats not very precise, i probably wrote that part while incorrectly thinking about normal belts since i usually write these things little by little over a course of hours. but noises can occur on bad tensioners and such as well to an extent.. – agent provocateur Sep 29 '17 at 18:30
  • "Requires replacing/servicing the chain tensioner relatively often" - This is not necessarily true, as not all timing chains have tensioners. – Glen Yates Nov 14 '17 at 20:54