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This question asked whether $\mathrm{Sp}$ is convenient in the sense of satisfying (in the $\infty$-categorical sense) a list of desired properties of Lewis in his 1991 paper (see there).

The answer given there is yes, provided one interprets Lewis's desiderata in the setting of $\infty$-categories.

Given that $\mathrm{Sp}$ is better behaved than all other existing models of spectra, are them still needed for the purposes of homotopy theory?


Here $\mathrm{Sp}$ means the $(\infty,1)$-category of spectra, not specifically the quasicategory of spectra.

(@Dmitri Pavlov requested clarification on the meaning of $\infty$-category. I meant quasicategory, but only because of ignorance: I don't know constructions of $\mathrm{Sp}$ other than Lurie's, and would be happy if someone could point me to references on this. Regarding the meaning of “$\infty$-category”, I believe the discussion would be more interesting if we do not restrict to quasicategories. (This should be a comment; see the edit summary))

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    https://mathoverflow.net/a/83307/12166 – Fernando Muro Feb 09 '19 at 16:05
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    @FernandoMuro I think the issue at hand is different. Models of spectra, e.g. symmetric spectra and $\mathbb{S}$-modules, were built to have a category of spectra possessing good formal properties, such as a point-set symmetric smash product (rather than one that is symmetric only on the homotopy category). $\mathrm{Sp}$ is the most convenient model in this regard, satisfying more properties than any (non $\infty$-)categorical model may have, as discussed in the linked question. – Conformal Geometry Feb 09 '19 at 17:32
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    (Of course, one should exclude sequential spectra from the scope of the question, since they were not introduced to give a convenient category of spectra (at least when comparing to (say) symmetric spectra). Also, they are clearly useful, being the most “pedagogical/easier to picture” when one is first learning about spectra.) – Conformal Geometry Feb 09 '19 at 17:39
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    I’ll go out on a limb and just say it: no. We don’t need model categories of spectra any more. Any computation that needs to be done can be done in the homotopy category or else via some spectral sequence that can be built without recourse to model categories. I know of no homotopically meaningful statement about spectra that can’t be proven without using model categories of spectra. (I realize this is controversial, so when people inevitably refute, please take care not to assume I’m claiming more than exactly what I wrote above!) – Dylan Wilson Feb 09 '19 at 18:18
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    (Also please note the difference between need and want. People can prove theorems with whatever tools they like the most!) – Dylan Wilson Feb 09 '19 at 18:20
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    It is a bit like asking "do we still need equality?" – მამუკა ჯიბლაძე Feb 09 '19 at 18:24
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    @DylanWilson Thank you for writing those comments! I too know of no application that needs explicit models anymore. I know it is a controversial opinion, but it needed to be said. – Denis Nardin Feb 09 '19 at 18:38
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    I think it's misleading to refer to "the quasicategory of spectra" as "a model of spectra", because "the quasicategory of spectra" is only well-defined up to quasicategorical equivalence! (not up to isomorphism of quasicategories, unless you get specific and say something like "the homotopy coherent nerve of the simplicial localization of symmetric spectra" -- but for that you need an honest-to-goodness model to start with!) If there's a construction of "the quasicategory of spectra" specific enough for you to tell me what its set of n-simplices is for each n, then it's a "model". – Tim Campion Feb 09 '19 at 20:00
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    @TimCampion Is $\mathrm{Exc}*(\mathcal{S}^{fin},\mathcal{S})$ where $\mathcal{S}$ is the simplicial nerve of the category of Kan complexes, and $\mathcal{S}_^{fin}$ is the full subcategory of the slice under $*$ generated by $S^0$ under finite colimits concrete enough? – Denis Nardin Feb 09 '19 at 20:01
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    @DenisNardin Sure, but I think when you realize that you've baked "the simplicial nerve of the category of Kan complexes" into your construction, it becomes clear that your model is probably not "the one true model". To me the beauty of the quasicategorical approach is precisely that you don't have to specify a model with this precision (working instead with universal properties). – Tim Campion Feb 09 '19 at 20:12
  • @TimCampion I'm not sure I get it. It seems that you are complaining about the fact that q-categories are only defined up to equivalence and not up to isomorphism. To me this seems fairly arbitrary: model categories too are usually only defined up to equivalence and not isomorphisms (of categories). Anyway this is probably not the place to have this discussion – Denis Nardin Feb 09 '19 at 20:14
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    I'm not complaining -- typically I prefer defining a quasicategory only up to equivalence with universal properties! I just think if you say you've got a "model" of an $\infty$-category, but you don't specify it beyond the $\infty$-categorical equivalence class, then the word "model" has become meaningless. – Tim Campion Feb 09 '19 at 20:19
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    As requested by the OP: the phrase “free, presentable, stable infinity-category on one object” is model-independent so we needn’t restrict ourselves to quasicategories. Actually, essentially all of the different characterizations of Sp in Higher Algebra are model independent (eg as a limit in Cat_infty over loops-which was also used by Rezk in his paper on CSSs, as excisive functors, as the unit in the symmetric monoidal infty category of presentable infty cats, etc etc) – Dylan Wilson Feb 10 '19 at 00:03
  • ^^should say stable presentable, above – Dylan Wilson Feb 10 '19 at 01:08
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    I started a meta thread to figure out what we should do in general with questions like this. I think "civil war" is the wrong answer. I also voted to close as primarily opinion based. https://meta.mathoverflow.net/questions/4112/ – David White Feb 10 '19 at 14:31
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    Dylan: ``In the end it is actual examples that interest us, and the theory comes along for the ride.'' RIGHT. By far the most interesting theorem in stable homotopy theory in the past decade is the HHR solution of the Kervaire invariant problem, which of course makes no use at all of $\infty$ categories. It seems unimaginable that it could have been found starting from such non-concrete foundations. Tyler: I totally agree with your answer, and would add that your beautiful paper on BP not being an $E_{12}$ spectrum is another such example. – Peter May Feb 10 '19 at 23:00
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    (cont) One might be perverse and ask if we {\em need} infty categories? Yes, of course: it is wonderful for universal properties as Dylan emphasizes, and then sometimes one can derive things of concrete use using those properties. But for most concrete work (all of it that predates $\infty$ categories and examples such as I mentioned before) it is not needed. There are beautiful theorems that use them, but there are also horrors where results trivial with models become almost impenetrably obscured without them. So reckon not the purely logical need! – Peter May Feb 10 '19 at 23:01
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    (cont) I agree that there may well be no need for concrete models (and for me, at least, model categories are just as concrete as the objects in them) in the strict logical sense as long as one is only interested in homotopically meaningful statements, but as Dmitri points out some of us are {\em} not only interested in such statements, and many of us (probably most of us) like to prove homotopically meaningful statements using non-homotopically meaningful shortcuts. It is best to be eclectic, hard as that is for young people just starting out. – Peter May Feb 10 '19 at 23:01
  • @PeterMay, thank you for sharing your thoughts! Just like with your answer that Fernando linked to above, I agree completely! – David White Feb 11 '19 at 00:17
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    I feel like this question is not specific enough. Homotopy theory is a broad subject, so who precisely is "we" in the question and what do we want to prove? If we restrict the question to proving theorems about homotopy-invariant structures on the homotopy category of spectra, then the answer is most likely "yes, we only need $\infty$-categories, but we would have pigeonholed ourselves into the problem area which $\infty$-categories were designed to be the best tool for. (..cont..) – Anton Fetisov Feb 13 '19 at 10:36
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    But I can't imagine how you would connect homotopy theory with practical applications in algebra and differential geometry without specific models. Yes, you could define $G$-equivariant spectra $\infty$-categorically via the orbit categories, once you know that this is a good model of equivariant spectra, and I can't imagine how you would argue that or invent it without models of spectra and spaces. Neither I have a clue how you would move from bordism and surgery theory to homotopy theory without passing through some specific models. – Anton Fetisov Feb 13 '19 at 10:37
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    I have speculated in this question that there should be some "completed" homotopy theory which lives not over $\mathrm{Spec}\mathbb Z$, but over $\widehat{\mathrm{Spec}\mathbb Z}$. Now, I don't know what that theory looks like, although I have some guesses, e.g. it should be geometric and at the infinity it should relate to metric geometry. However two things are clear: firstly, all classical stable homotopy theory lives over the open part, since spectra are just souped-up abelian groups. (..cont..) – Anton Fetisov Feb 13 '19 at 10:47
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    And thus secondly, whatever the extra "global" structure is, it would make the "completed" theory incompatible with classical homotopy theory in a sense that some homotopy equivalent notions and objects would be distinct. The models of spectra seem very much related to this "completed" theory, and the problems with $G$-equivariant theory and geometric topology look like an evidence for this extra structure. – Anton Fetisov Feb 13 '19 at 10:48
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    @PeterMay I'm going to quote you in a grant application :-) – David Roberts Feb 16 '19 at 07:45

4 Answers4

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The question used the phrase "still needed." This is a very loaded term, and the answer that you give will depend very strongly on how you interpret it.

  1. If, as Dylan does, we interpret this as asking whether some theorems make it mathematically necessary to use one of these strict models, I suspect that the answer is ultimately no. My reason is a little different from Dylan's. Lima's thesis first introduced categories of spectra in 1958 or 1959. Since then there have been many, many models introduced (even Vogt's lectures from 1969 on Boardman's category give a table comparing 8 different ones, including those developed by Spanier and Whitehead). However, the operating principle is now this: a "model for the category of spectra" is something that is equivalent to Boardman's category of spectra; the core applications are to determining information about maps in the stable homotopy category, or about function spaces between objects. One possible interpretation is this: theorems about stable homotopy theory have already been theorems about the $(\infty,1)$-category of spectra by definition for several decades.

  2. If we ask, instead, whether some developments would not have happened without these strict models, I suspect that the answer is yes. The most prominent example that I can think of is, in equivariant stable theory, the notion of a strictly commutative G-ring spectrum. These encode strictly more structure than the "homotopical" version of a commutative ring spectrum. Now, in the decade after Hill-Hopkins-Ravenel, we have explanations that go back and explain that this is because the G-equivariant category extends to some kind of G-symmetric monoidal category. However, this doesn't alter the fact that the structure was discovered because the strict notion turned out to encode more information than the homotopical one.

    If you allow me unstable comments: topological commutative monoids, topological abelian groups, the Dold-Thom theorem on infinite symmetric products, and the Dold-Kan correspondence on simplicial abelian groups are all theorems that are about a strictly more rigid structure than the notion of "commutative monoid" from Higher Algebra. These are all tremendously important structures. It's not clear to me that they would have developed if we would have started from ground zero with a coherent version of the category of spaces.

However, we should not overlook the human question: whether the subject is easier to teach, learn, and understand using a concrete model. As of writing, I cannot see any way to answer this other than with a resounding yes. There is a good reason why definitions of spectra like those in Adams or Bousfield-Friedlander are still used by people entering the subject: even with care and attention to their subtleties, they can be learned and understood very quickly. With a strict symmetric monoidal model, you can define algebra and module objects with a couple of diagrams; someone who assumes they exist and have good properties can be working with them very quickly.

Asserting that things are just as easy to do with new models of higher categories overlooks the cost involved in learning how to effectively work with them. (This isn't new. For example, developing fluency with homotopy limits and colimits always took some effort, because they remove one of abstract algebra's most useful tools--dramatic and unapologetic overkill--now that "imposing a relation" has higher consequences.) I have seen groups of intelligent people fluent in this language stumped for some time trying to translate a basic fact of category theory into new terms. We cannot demand that those interested in stable theory must learn higher category theory. This is not yet material that can be easily black-boxed. (I say all of this as someone who, at least in recent years, has been converted.)

Not least, part of the problem is that it is difficult to appreciate the development of higher category theory before you have some familiarity with the problems that it solves (e.g. up to and including the old "permuting two circles" problem in stable theory). There are not really a lot of references yet that tell the story of why coherent category theory is a good idea in homotopy theory. This is just one of a series of expository problems that can be squarely laid at the feet of people in my generation and older, and it will hopefully get better as time goes on.

David White
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Tyler Lawson
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    From the didactic point of view, I have to say that people sometime forget how hard learning model categories can be. From the perspective of someone who has had to learn model categories and quasicategories at the same time, model categories were a lot harder and less motivated. I did learn them, in the end, but I'm not 100% sure they are as intuitive as some people suggest. – Denis Nardin Feb 10 '19 at 11:36
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    @Denis That may be, and I don't want to suggest that model categories are intuitive. But there is a level of operation before model categories, or an alternative, become needed, and I want to say that working coherently makes that step much harder. – Tyler Lawson Feb 10 '19 at 13:43
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    +1 (as an outsider) for "Not least, part of the problem is that it is difficult to appreciate the development of higher category theory before you have some familiarity with the problems that it solves" -- this applies with HTC replaced by many other things, some of which I perpetrate – Yemon Choi Feb 10 '19 at 14:07
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    Wonderful answer! On the topic of commutative $G$-spectra, I'll point out that this area provides counterpoints to Dylan's claim that he knows of "no homotopically meaningful results...that requires one of the model structures". For instance, my proof (with Javier Gutierrez) that $N_\infty$-operads exist for any realizable collection $F = (F_n)$ of families of subgroups of $G\times \Sigma_n$, is extremely simple with model categories. The $N_\infty$ operads are simply cofibrant replacements of Com in appropriate model structures on $G$-operads. I don't know an $\infty$-categorical proof. – David White Feb 10 '19 at 14:21
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    A great answer! You raise yet another important question- the pedagogical value of model categories. I agree that with strict models we may more quickly state definitions and theorems. But the cost is a host of other pitfalls for the student. I’ve had lots of confusing conversations with model category theorists talking about something like “G-spectra” and saying things that didn’t seem right, only to discover that they were secretly using some notion of weak equivalences which produced a completely different homotopy theory. The other cost is that strict models are easy to define but (contd) – Dylan Wilson Feb 10 '19 at 14:42
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    rarely exist in nature. The difficult nature of homotopy coherence is replaced by (often inexplicit) cofibrant replacements and ‘natural zigzags’. So again- I think model categories are fine as a pedagogical tool, but maybe we should revise the way we teach them a bit? Perhaps take a more Dwyer-Kan approach to these things? (a compromise between full-on infty categories and model categories.) – Dylan Wilson Feb 10 '19 at 14:46
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    You also raise another question, about historical developments. I’m not sure I believe this argument about G-spectra. I would argue that norms remained undiscovered for many years perhaps precisely because the notion of strictly commutative ring was obscuring them. In another timeline, they probably would’ve been invented when the need arose for HHR to compute differentials in the slice tower, regardless of the foundations that existed at the time. You also mention some other strict structures, which occur in nature. Infty-category theory has plenty of room for these questions, and... – Dylan Wilson Feb 10 '19 at 14:54
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    ... but if the point is just that these things played an important role in the historical development of the subject, I’d agree. I just don’t agree that these developments wouldn’t have happened with some other set of foundations. In the end it is actual examples that interest us, and the theory comes along for the ride. Topological abelian groups were an inevitable object of study since they appear in nature. Strictly commutative ring spectra hardly ever appear in nature, so I think their invention was less inevitable. – Dylan Wilson Feb 10 '19 at 15:01
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    @DavidWhite Regarding realizability of $N_∞$-operads. That's, uh, my fault. I was supposed to write the ∞-categorical version of that stuff down for our parametrized homotopy theory project. Sorry, I'll finish it at some point... – Denis Nardin Feb 10 '19 at 16:16
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    @DenisNardin As an outsider who tried to get a little understanding of both (or either) model categories and quasicategories, the time investment to get a basic level of comfort/understanding of quasicategories seemed much higher to me. (To be clear, I make no claims about whether it is nonetheless important/worthwhile/etc; I am too far removed to have opinions, much less knowledge.) – mme Feb 10 '19 at 16:41
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    @MikeMiller Admittedly I did have the advantage of an advisor guiding me. Alas, the introductory material to quasi-categories is, I feel, not good enough for independent study (especially its almost total lack of examples). I think this is a big problem, but this is maybe a conversation to be had elsewhere... – Denis Nardin Feb 10 '19 at 17:17
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    @DenisNardin I might add that the introductory material to quasicategory theory, at least as presented in HTT, relies for numerous fundamental results on a virtuosic command of model category theory. – Kevin Carlson Feb 10 '19 at 17:49
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    @KevinCarlson: And not just HTT, but also Cisinski's book and Joyal's notes rely on model categories very heavily. (Are there any other introductory texts on quasicategories?) – Dmitri Pavlov Feb 10 '19 at 19:42
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    @DmitriPavlov I'm not aware of any other comprehensive introductions to quasicategories. Riehl and Verity cover a lot of the same ground model independently, but even they need some model categorical machinery to construct their examples. – Kevin Carlson Feb 10 '19 at 20:39
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    Dylan: In the end it is actual examples that interest us, and the theory comes along for the ride. RIGHT. By far the most interesting theorem in stable homotopy theory in the past decade is the HHR solution of the Kervaire invariant problem, which of course makes no use of $\infty$ categories. It seems unimaginable that it would have been found starting from such non-concrete foundations. Tyler: I totally agree with your answer, and would add that your beautiful paper on BP not being an $E_{12}$ spectrum is another such example. – Peter May Feb 10 '19 at 22:17
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    @DylanWilson Yes, I think it's a good idea to moderate the teaching of both. I'm not sure how to do this entirely. I certainly don't want to teach a definition of homotopy colimits that requires cofibrant replacement in the projective model structure, but I also want concrete methods to calculate left derived functors of colim. (Also, I look forward to seeing a version of G-spectra that is not confusing in any way whatsover...) – Tyler Lawson Feb 11 '19 at 07:45
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    @DmitriPavlov There are also Rezk's "Stuff about quasicategories" and Groth's "A short course course on $\infty$-categories" available online. – Tyler Lawson Feb 11 '19 at 07:46
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At the risk of starting some kind of (un?)civil war, let me expand on my comments.

First and foremost, let's address the interpretation of the question. The OP asks "do we need a model category of spectra". If we interpret need to mean "without a model category of spectra we are unable to prove our favorite theorems and make our favorite computations" I think the answer is straightforward: no we do not need it. As I said in the comments:

  • Computations are largely done in the homotopy category, unless they use the existence of certain spectral sequences and extra structure that might act on them. However, to the best of my knowledge, all such spectral sequences together with whatever extra structure you like, can be constructed in the land of $\infty$-categories without mentioning any of the fancy model categories of spectra.
  • I know of no homotopically meaningful result about spectra that requires one of the model categories of spectra.

So it is cheating to say: "$\infty$-categories can't prove that such and such is a strict, point-set symmetric monoidal widget" because you can't even ask that question in the land of $\infty$-categories. The real question is: have we ever actually needed to know there is some strict, point-set model for these things? I have asked many people to give me an example. I have never heard of one. I am not arguing that model categories for every concept are never used. One usually needs, at some point, some model category presenting spaces and/or one presenting $\infty$-categories when setting up the foundations. I am just saying that, once those foundations have been built, we do not need to go and find model categories for everything else in the world.


Now, as often happens in these discussions, the conversation has turned to a different question entirely: Are there things that are easier to prove with model categories of spectra than with the $\infty$-category of spectra?

This is the sort of question addressed by Dmitri above.

For the most part, I think this is very subjective: we all have different backgrounds and tastes, and whatever is easiest for us personally is what we should use.

However, I want to point out a subtlety in the discussion of this question. Let me take as our example the same as Dmitri's: constructing the Eilenberg-MacLane spectrum associated to a dga. Here is what Dmitri says:

Yes, the Eilenberg–MacLane functor from the category of differential-graded rings to the category of symmetric ring spectra in simplicial sets is constructed immediately using the lax monoidal structure of the Dold–Kan functor, whereas the analogous construction in the quasicategorical world is far more involved.

But there is a fundamental mismatch between the two tasks. Implicit in the phrase "the Eilenberg-MacLane functor" is the idea that there is a somehow 'unique' one that satisfies some properties we want it to satisfy. (Otherwise both parties would have an easy time constructing a symmetric monoidal functor from dgas to spectra: just send everything to zero.)

So the model category theorist, in answering this question, gets to: (i) choose a model for what 'dgas' are, (ii) choose a model for what 'spectra' are, and (iii) choose a specific model for what they mean by 'Eilenberg-MacLane' spectra. Then they show their construction is some type of monoidal and hopefully that it produces familiar homotopy types when applied on familiar dgas. (By the way: if we're allowed to pick whatever model is convenient, why not just take $\mathrm{H}\mathbb{Z}$-modules and the right adjoint to smashing with $\mathrm{H}\mathbb{Z}$?)

But now, the burden is on the model category theorist to:

  1. Check that this particular construction can be appropriately derived.
  2. Check that this particular construction agrees with the other particular construction produced by some other model category theorist.
  3. Check that this particular construction has all of my favorite properties. And, if it doesn't, that it is equivalent through some zig-zag of Quillen equivalences to some other construction which does.
  4. In verifying (3), one must re-verify (1) and (2) for these new properties.

For and example of (4): the Dold-Kan functor is not lax symmetric monoidal, but we would still like to know that a cdga gets mapped to an $\mathbb{E}_{\infty}$-algebra. (And, more generally, that a chain complex with an $\mathbb{E}_{\infty}$-structure gets mapped to an $\mathbb{E}_{\infty}$-ring). It is not really clear how to immediately deduce that with the set-up you give... and, if you did write down some explicit $\mathbb{E}_{\infty}$-algebra structure, you would then need to verify that everyone else that writes down an $\mathbb{E}_{\infty}$-algebra structure on some EM-functor equivalent to yours actually produced an equivalent gadget... and so on and so forth forever.

This becomes a very large enterprise. People writing down $n$-different explicit constructions in $n$-different model categories, comparing them, then realizing there is more structure on those constructions, and comparing those, etc. etc.

In the land of $\infty$-categories, you have to work harder to setup the theory but you prove stronger theorems. The functor $D(\mathbb{Z})_{\ge 0} \to \mathsf{Sp}$ producing Eilenberg-MacLane objects can be produced directly from universal properties of the left and right hand side as symmetric monoidal $\infty$-categories. It is then automatically characterized up to a contractible space of choices by various conditions, which provides automatic natural zig-zags of weak equivalences between whatever constructions you make with model categories that satisfy some list of conditions. Moreover, it automatically produces souped-up functors from algebras over any operad in $D(\mathbb{Z})_{\ge 0}$ to algebras over that same operad in $\mathsf{Sp}$. Finally, no computational strength is lost: all of your favorite spectral sequences and filtrations etc. arise from the fact that this functor preserves (homotopy) colimits and is easy to compute on free things.

Let me point out, also, that even having a characterization of this functor via universal properties helps you to check stuff like (4) above. It turns out that the space of ways to promote the plain-old EM-functor to an ($\infty$-)symmetric monoidal functor is contractible. So if some model category theorist goes and promotes their EM-functor to a lax symmetric monoidal one in two different ways, then they automatically know they agree up to some natural zig-zag of weak equivalences.


All of the above was about a specific example, but it is part of a larger point.

  • The $\infty$-categorical setup allows us to characterize highly structured objects/categories/functors via universal properties and produce them via general existence results. You usually can't even state those universal properties with model categories.
  • Computations with objects/categories/functors immediately follow from the characterization because eventually whatever you're doing is probably a bar construction and then, voila, you have a spectral sequence.
  • It is often possible to promote constructions like this to even more highly structures constructions with minimal extra work.
  • Comparison with any other specific construction, be they model categorical or $\infty$-categorical, is immediate from the universal characterization. Moreover, just the existence of a universal characterization of promoted versions of a construction produces non-obvious comparison results for constructions with model categories.
Dylan Wilson
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    “(i) choose a model for what 'dgas' are”: You do not get to choose what dgas are, dgas are by far the most commonly used model for ring spectra outside of homotopy theory proper. So either your theory connects to all other branches of mathematics that use dgas (e.g., representation theory, algebraic geometry, etc.), or it doesn't. – Dmitri Pavlov Feb 09 '19 at 21:33
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    “1. Check that this particular construction can be appropriately derived.”: this is completely automatic, because such constructions are Quillen functor, which can always be derived. For example, the Eilenberg–MacLane functor mentioned above is automatically a left Quillen functor. So it is not accurate for you to say that proving this is a “burden”. – Dmitri Pavlov Feb 09 '19 at 21:36
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    @DmitriPavlov I was trying to explain a general paradigm. It is sometimes (maybe even relatively often) the case in practice, with model categories, that the functor you write down is not a Quillen functor for whatever model structure you are using, and that you need to change model structures or otherwise justify the existence of enough objects to 'resolve' by. This happens often when you need to do something with tensor products in a situation when you have enough flat objects but not enough projectives, say, but you also want to do something else that requires enough injectives, etc. – Dylan Wilson Feb 09 '19 at 21:38
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    “2. Check that this particular construction agrees with the other particular construction produced by some other model category theorist.”: How is this any different in the quasicategorical world? One quasicategory theorist uses cocartesian fibrations and ∞-preoperads, another uses dendroidal sets and dendroidal fibrations, and then these models must be compared, which is quite involved. Even defining things is often unreasonably more difficult, e.g., for a long time we did not have a theory of enriched colored ∞-operads. – Dmitri Pavlov Feb 09 '19 at 21:38
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    “It is not really clear how to immediately deduce that with the set-up you give...”: Actually, it is: the Dold–Kan functor is an E_∞-lax functor, so it immediately induces a functor from CDGA to Alg_{E_∞}(Sp^Σ(sSet)). This is just as formal as the case of CDGAs. – Dmitri Pavlov Feb 09 '19 at 21:42
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    @DmitriPavlov Again your target is moving. These types of comparison results are occurring at the level of foundations. (I notice you didn't ask about comparing ZFC to other nonstandard models of set theory- but surely that should be added to your list of things we need to make sure don't mess with our theorems, right?) But if you are interested in comparison results at the foundational level, we already have a nice success story in the Unicity theorem of Barwick-Schommer-Pries. The theory is young- I imagine similar theorems will eventually be proven about operads and enriched theories. – Dylan Wilson Feb 09 '19 at 21:43
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    @DmitriPavlov Proving that the Dold-Kan functor is "E_infty lax" and, moreover, producing a specific E_infty lax structure and then comparing it to all the others is, you must admit, more involved than you are letting on... – Dylan Wilson Feb 09 '19 at 21:44
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    The comparisons of model-categorical constructions also occur at the level of foundations, so it is not clear what you are trying to say here. The Barwick–Schommer-Pries result, in particular, can be just as easily stated for model categories: the model category of (∞,n)-categories must be Quillen equivalent to a certain left Bousfield localization of simplicial presheaves on Θ_n. – Dmitri Pavlov Feb 09 '19 at 21:47
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    @DmitriPavlov Anyway, you seem very focused on the particular example of dgas, which I was using only to illustrate a larger point. This is beginning to take on the tone of the song "Anything you can do I can do better" which was not my intent. Please read the first few paragraphs: in the end, we should use whatever we personally like in order to prove theorems! The remaining paragraphs were an explanation of my personal feelings on the matter. – Dylan Wilson Feb 09 '19 at 21:48
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    Concerning Dold–Kan: as you yourself said, such results are established at the level of foundations, so I am not sure what your objection is here. The E_∞-structure on the Dold-Kan functor that I mentioned is the terminal such structure (its operations are natural transformation between Γ^{⊗n} and Γ), so comparing it to other structures is trivial. – Dmitri Pavlov Feb 09 '19 at 21:49
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    Almost all of what you are saying applies to any model of (∞,1)-categories, whether it is quasicategories, relative categories, simplicial categories, etc. (The arguments probably also work in the framework of Riehl–Verity.) This is true, for instance, for your paragraph about “stronger theorems”: all arguments there are model-independent, so it is not clear how quasicategories make any difference here. Recall, however, that one of the interpretations of the original question is whether one can use only quasicategories, and it is here that you arguments cease to make sense. – Dmitri Pavlov Feb 09 '19 at 21:53
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    “you seem very focused on the particular example of dgas”: Not at all, I also mentioned the Quinn–Quillen model for bordism spectra, as used in surgery theory, and I haven't seen any attempts to explain how this model can be encoded in quasicategories with similar efficiency. – Dmitri Pavlov Feb 09 '19 at 21:57
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    For the record, I do prefer “model-independent” constructions, such as the one described by you for the Eilenberg–MacLane functor. But to reiterate what I said before, such constructions make sense in any model, not just quasicategories, but also relative categories, etc. The original question, however, asked specifically if sticking exclusively to quasicategories is possible (and, by extension, makes things easier/better). – Dmitri Pavlov Feb 09 '19 at 22:02
  • @DmitriPavlov The original question asked about $\infty$-categories, not quasicategories, so I don't know why we keep coming back to this point about choosing a model for $\infty$-categories. And when you say that model category theorists could use relative categories throughout that is precisely my point: we should use $\infty$-categories to characterize and construct things with universal properties. The experimental and observable fact is: people that construct things using model categories usually don't do this! – Dylan Wilson Feb 09 '19 at 22:07
  • @DmitriPavlov regarding "Quinn-Quillen bordism spectra": I'd be happy to go learn what those are and get back to you, but I think we need to somehow fix some parameters for this "debate" ahead of time. After all, my claim to you would be that the original construction has heavy extra burdens regarding compatibility/comparison/extra structure, and your claim to me (it feels) will be that whatever I do it will be "less efficient" or "essentially the same". – Dylan Wilson Feb 09 '19 at 22:09
  • @DmitriPavlov either way, I think this discussion has perhaps exceeded a reasonable length for a comment thread. If you want to talk more maybe we should move to the homotopy theory chat room. – Dylan Wilson Feb 09 '19 at 22:11
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    The OP does mean specifically quasicategories (alias ∞-categories, as in Lurie's books), as opposed to (∞,1)-categories: he refers to another question, which references the “∞-category of spectra defined in Higher Algebra”, which is a quasicategorical construction. Also, these days (meaning after Lurie's books came out) ∞-categories are a synonym for quasicategories, whereas the “model-independent” version is now referred to as (∞,1)-categories. For instance, when Lurie is talking about cartesian fibrations of ∞-categories, he means specifically quasicategories, and not just any model. – Dmitri Pavlov Feb 09 '19 at 22:19
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    It would be helpful if you clarified the terminology used in your answer (maybe even edit the answer itself). Before Lurie's Higher Topos Theory came out in 2006, ∞-categories were synonymous with (∞,1)-categories and referred to any model, not just quasicategories. After 2006, terminology rapidly changed, and today ∞-categories are overwhelmingly used to mean quasicategories. If you indeed meant (∞,1)-categories instead of quasicategories, it would be helpful to point this out, since many people probably understood quasicategories where you said ∞-categories. – Dmitri Pavlov Feb 09 '19 at 22:28
  • Quinn's own expository account of his construction can be found in his paper “Assembly maps in bordism-type theories”. – Dmitri Pavlov Feb 09 '19 at 22:30
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    @DmitriPavlov re infty cats: I dunno if it's as standard as you say. I, and many others, use "$\infty$-categories" without picking a model, and try to make only model-independent statements. It just so happens that the only model for which some of the foundational results have so far been proven is in quasicategories. Sometimes the world reacts poorly to the phrase "model-independent" and so we say "we're using quasicategories" so as to avoid an argument. (Other times people are doing further foundational work within a model, and choose quasicategories for convenience.) – Dylan Wilson Feb 09 '19 at 22:43
  • @DmitriPavlov re quinn spectra: I'll look into it. But have you seen http://www.math.harvard.edu/~lurie/287x.html ? In particular Lecture 20? – Dylan Wilson Feb 09 '19 at 22:44
  • Okay but really: I'm no longer gonna comment on this thread, it's way too long! So any further discussion should really happen in a chat room. – Dylan Wilson Feb 09 '19 at 22:45
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    I'd say that such usage of the term “∞-category” only creates more confusion and should be avoided. Most people that use quasicategories refer to them as ∞-categories and they talk about various flavors of fibrations of ∞-categories, which only makes sense if you use a specific model, since any map of simplicial sets is weakly equivalent to a fibration in the Joyal model structure. Myself, I am not too excited about this change of terminology, but in any case things can be made unambiguous if one uses “(∞,1)-category” to refer to the model-independent notion. – Dmitri Pavlov Feb 09 '19 at 23:20
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    Yes, I am aware of Lurie's notes. In Lecture 6 he defines (in Definition 6) L(C,Q) using a specific model. In Lecture 7, he defines Kan fibrations of simplicial spaces in Definition 3. These are specific models. Of course, Quinn's construction can also be declared quasicategorical: after all, one can take the homotopy colimit of a simplicial set as a functor from Δ^op to spaces, which yields an object in the quasicategory of spaces. But this only further validates my point. – Dmitri Pavlov Feb 09 '19 at 23:26
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    Left/right fibrations, (co)cartesian fibrations and exponentialble (“flat inner”) fibrations can all be given model independent definitions. Inner fibrations and categorical fibrations can’t but these are not fundamental for the theory (precisely for this reason). – Dylan Wilson Feb 09 '19 at 23:26
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    Left fibrations cannot be given a model-independent definition, because they require (1) a model-independent lifting property and (2) a model-dependent property (i.e., being a fibration in the Joyal model structure). Many theorems in Lurie's books will be false if you drop (2) from the definition of a left fibration. Your claim about inner fibrations being different from left fibrations is not correct: inner fibrations also have a model-independent component, they classify (∞,1)-functors to the (∞,1)-category of (∞,1)-categories and (∞,1)-profunctors between them. – Dmitri Pavlov Feb 09 '19 at 23:34
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    Yes, actually, they can... cf Ayala-Francis “fibrations” paper for model-independent definitions. When implemented inside the model of quasicategories they will be equivalent to saying “a map of quasicategories homotopic to a ??-fibration”. I don’t understand what you mean about inner fibrations: every map between quasicategories is homotopic to an inner fibration, so the model independent notion would just be “any functor”. – Dylan Wilson Feb 09 '19 at 23:46
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    By the way, there was a really long period of time before HTT where ∞-category meant strict or some algebraic model of weak omega category. If it were up to me, I'd use the term "weak n-category" for (∞,n)-category (including in dimension 1), since there will never be a usable algebraic model for weak n-categories above dimension 2. – Harry Gindi Feb 09 '19 at 23:49
  • (All the theorems you are worried about in Lurie remain true by replacing pullbacks/pushouts of ssets with htpy pullbacks/pushouts of quasicategories and using the model independent definitions I referenced. The first line of the new proof in HTT would then read “begin by replacing all maps by inner fibrations...” etc.) – Dylan Wilson Feb 09 '19 at 23:51
  • @DylanWilson: Yes, any (∞,1)-functor classifies a lax (∞,1)-functor to the category of (∞,1)-categories and (∞,1)-profunctors. (I think I misinterpreted what you were saying about inner fibrations.) As for your claim about all theorems in Lurie's book, what would the procedure that you described do to Proposition 2.3.3.7 in HTT, for example? (This proposition is one of many examples of “Many theorems in Lurie's books”.) – Dmitri Pavlov Feb 10 '19 at 00:11
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    That statement in HTT asks for a map of simplicial sets to be an isomorphism, which is not a model independent claim. Obviously it is not possible to give model independent proofs of model dependent claims! – Dylan Wilson Feb 10 '19 at 00:34
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    @DylanWilson: Yes, I agree with your last claim. Lurie's books, as well as many (most?) papers that use the term “∞-category” make use of such model-dependent statements every once in a while, as you can see. That's why “∞-category” can only mean quasicategory and not “(∞,1)-category”. – Dmitri Pavlov Feb 10 '19 at 00:38
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    Is there some reason you have ignored my repeated requests to move this discussion (which is by now far removed from the OP’s question) to chat? – Dylan Wilson Feb 10 '19 at 01:05
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    @DylanWilson: “Far removed” is a stretch: the OP just edited his question to indicate that he is interested in (∞,1)-categories, so discussing to what extent quasicategories can be substituted for (∞,1)-categories is directly relevant to determining what fits the scope of OP's question and what doesn't. As for your request to move this to chat: sorry, but no way. This discussion will be read by hundreds of people in the future, whereas the chat will be seen only by a few, and will then be buried forever. – Dmitri Pavlov Feb 10 '19 at 01:14
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    I don't understand this debate, and I dislike its internet-y tone. I would like however to correct a misapprehension about the Unicity Theorem of Schommer-Pries and me. We do more than just construct an equivalence of homotopy theories between any model and ϴ_n-spaces. We show that the space of homotopy theories of (∞,n)-categories is a BZ/2. That means that not only are there equivalences between any two models, but they are unique up to orientation, which is in turn a contractible choice. – Clark Barwick Feb 10 '19 at 13:19
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    I know no purely model-category-theoretic formulation of this, because I know no way to speak accurately about a space of model categories. The result Dmitri states is however a consequence thereof. – Clark Barwick Feb 10 '19 at 13:19
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    @ClarkBarwick Thanks Clark! I also dislike the tone of the debate. And did you mean B(Z/2)^n? – Dylan Wilson Feb 10 '19 at 15:25
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    @DylanWilson I did indeed; thank you. I probably also should have said that the choice of orientation is a discrete choice, or contractible once you choose a component. – Clark Barwick Feb 10 '19 at 17:58
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    @ClarkBarwick: My fault, I should have mentioned that the space of choices is B(Z/2)^n, of course. As for your comment about spaces of model categories: can we not state uniqueness in terms of spaces of relative categories, using the model structure constructed in your paper with Kan? (And passing to the next Grothendieck universe to allow for large categories.) – Dmitri Pavlov Feb 10 '19 at 19:48
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    Oh, this you mean. Yes. You can definitely state it that way. – Clark Barwick Feb 10 '19 at 22:14
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The original question has been answered in the sense that there are people who are confident to prove every statement about spectra they care about without recourse to models or model categories of spectra. (That they might argue with statements only known due to specific manipulations of simplices in the model of quasi-categories is a different question as this question is only about models of spectra and not about the use of models or model categories in general.) More precisely, Dylan has expressed this sentiment in the following sentence.

I know of no homotopically meaningful statement about spectra that can’t be proven without using model categories of spectra.

I do not see the main purpose of spectra in making homotopically meaningful statements about them. Although I regret that my own work has often been rather far removed from it, I see it as one of the main purposes of spectra to facilitate computations of geometric interest. The things we start with a often not constructed in a particularly homotopical fashion.

Example 1) The Pontryagin-Thom construction. Here we identify bordism groups of manifolds with the homotopy groups of a Thom spectrum and then use e.g. its homology and the Adams spectral sequence to actually compute these groups. The Adams spectral sequence of course works completely in the homotopy category of spectra, but how do I prove the Pontryagin-Thom theorem if I only know that spectra are the free presentable stable infinity-category on one object? If I am given a problem about topological spaces (even manifolds) it seems to very useful for me that I can use a sequence of pointed topological spaces with suspension maps between them to get a spectrum.

Another nice thing about models is that you can perform very concrete geometric operations on your geometrically given objects, then check (e.g.) some cofibrancy and see that they coincide with homotopy invariant constructions. As a simple example: Say you are given a concrete topological space with a $G$-action and want to compute the $G$-homotopy orbits (or rather the quotient in the $\infty$-category of spaces). Then I can check in my model sometimes that the action is free and just perform a usual quotient, of which (e.g.) the homology groups are usually much easier to compute than of the homotopy orbits. A recent more sophisticated example of this philosophy is the following:

Example 2) For a topological group $G$, let's denote by $C_n(G)$ the space of commuting $n$-tuples of elements in $G$. In a recent paper, Gritschacher and Hausmann compute the homotopy groups of $C_n(O)$ by identifying the $C_2$-equivariant homotopy type of $C_n(U)$ with $\Omega^{\infty}(k\mathbb{R}\wedge (S^{\sigma})^{\times n})$. They check cofibrancy conditions, write down homeomorphism etc. -- i.e. they argue in a very non-$\infty$-categorical way. But how should one even start calculating the homotopy groups of a very concrete space without arguing first in models to translate it into something that can be described in a purely homotopical fashion?

I want to add that Gritschacher and Hausmann also provide a proof of real Bott periodicity in this fashion (essentially filling in details into a very short sketch of Suslin). Here the case is different as the K-theory spectrum of the symmetrical monoidal category of finite-dimensional real vector spaces has already an $\infty$-categorical sound to it. Is there a proof of real (or complex) Bott periodicity in a purely $\infty$-categorical style starting from the description of K-theory as above?

Example 3) I think, similar points as above apply to the (equivariant) analysis of the homotopy groups of symmetric powers of spaces. See e.g. Schwede's article


It goes without saying that the $\infty$-categorical paradigm is extremely important and useful, especially for proving anything that can be formulated in purely $\infty$-categorical style - as Dylan said: even if there is a short-cut using models often the $\infty$-categorical argument buys you more. But I see arguing with models of spectra still as important if you start with something that is not given in $\infty$-categorical style, but rather as concrete topological spaces.

Lennart Meier
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    I'm not sure your answer supports the point you're making. You seem to argue that we are supposed to work with concrete models of spaces, which I don't disagree with at all (and I don't know anyone who'd disagree). But I don't know any computation that uses essentially a model category of spectra. Of course I'd have to spend some time digesting the examples you provide to be sure – Denis Nardin Feb 13 '19 at 09:11
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    Actually let me be more precise: I don't know any computation on spectra which is not ultimately a reduction to a computation in spaces, and I've never seen a reduction that couldn't be done as easily at the level of ∞-categories. To do the final step (computation at the space level) it is, of course, sometimes necessary to use concrete models. – Denis Nardin Feb 13 '19 at 09:18
  • While I strongly agree with everything said here, I just want to point out that example 1 doesn't seem, strictly speaking, to be a counterexample to Dylan's claim that "no homotopically meaningful statement about spectra...". In order for it to be counterexample you would have to phrase PT theorem in a model independent manner, only then you can expect to prove it with model independent language. By which I mean one side of the equality (the framed cobordism spectrum) is defined in relation to a specific model so its obviously a model dependent statement that it is in fact the sphere spectrum. – Saal Hardali Feb 13 '19 at 13:15
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    Thanks for this response! As Denis said: I’m not saying we should never use models or never use ‘strict’ things- I really was limiting myself to model categories of spectra. I would say models for the homotopy theory of spaces are as unavoidable as choosing an axiomatization Set theory- most of the time you don’t need to look under the hood, but sometimes you do. I think we can pretty much limit our use of models to the “foundations”- here I say “can” and not necessarily “should”! – Dylan Wilson Feb 13 '19 at 15:12
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    Re ex 1: in fact having a sequence of spaces and maps from the suspension of one to the other is a perfectly good way to get an object in Sp (one can use the fact that Sp is a colimit in Pr^L over suspension acting on spaces). As an aside: manifolds are the greatest and I never want anyone to interpret what I’m saying as “we should give up manifolds”. On the contrary: we should focus on manifolds, and streamline our theory so that we can prove abstract nonsense quickly and then get back to manifolds. – Dylan Wilson Feb 13 '19 at 15:16
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    Re ex 3) I’ll just say that symmetric powers always really confused me until I learned a manifestly homotopy invariant definition- especially when people talked about symmetric powers of spectra, where you don’t have a clean visual. Here’s the construction: by a theorem of Dror Farjoun, a symmetric power (of, say, a CW-complex) is given as the homotopy colimit over the orbit category of \Sigma_n of the various fixed points of X^{\times n}. – Dylan Wilson Feb 13 '19 at 15:20
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    Re ex 2) I don’t know enough about this one but I’ll response to the remarks after it. It seems to me like you are talking about a really interesting theorem with great content. I don’t imagine model categories or infinity categories are essential to the argument, and probably an infty category user could rewrite the paper without mentioning models (of course, we would mention topological spaces since that’s part of the results)- and certainly without models of spectra. But it would be sort of silly. The purpose of – Dylan Wilson Feb 13 '19 at 15:27
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    homotopy coherent foundations is that you can have some actual ideas with content, and an intuition for how to prove them, and then you can actually write down a proof along those lines. While it’s my personal opinion that infty-categorical arguments more closely match the non-rigorous pictures in my head, I’m more interested in the interesting ideas and examples. I was only trying to say, for this question specifically, that if you have lots of cool statements about spectra you wanna prove then you don’t need the baggage of models to prove them if you don’t want it – Dylan Wilson Feb 13 '19 at 15:31
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    @SaalHardali I did not want to provide counterexamples to the quoted statement by Dylan, but rather say that homotopical meaningful is not always the main aim. – Lennart Meier Feb 13 '19 at 17:40
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    @DylanWilson and DennisNardin: I do not think that we really disagree on any point here; it is just a difference in emphasis, partially due to the mathematical enviroments we grew up in, I guess. I just wanted to display this different emphasis to make it obvious to everybody that these different emphases exist. – Lennart Meier Feb 13 '19 at 17:43
  • @LennartMeier Then it seems we agree on everything. – Saal Hardali Feb 13 '19 at 17:45
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    @LennartMeier I agree to be in agreement! – Dylan Wilson Feb 13 '19 at 18:57
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Given that Sp is better behaved than all other existing models of spectra

No, Sp is not better behaved than other models. The reason that it seems to be is because all operations in Sp (e.g., Ω^∞, Σ^∞) are (by construction) derived. But if you derive the operations in any other model, you will get exactly the same properties.

are them still needed for the purposes of homotopy theory?

As stated, the answer is obviously no. (The underlying (∞,1)-categories are equivalent, and arguably, this is the only thing that homotopy theory cares about.)

But if “needed” is interpreted in the practical sense, then one can point out many situations where working with strict models is much easier than with quasicategorical models, and because of the various rigidification results has exactly the same generality as quasicategorical analogues.

This especially concerns all sorts of situations that in the quasicategorical world involve (co)Cartesian fibrations, which includes, in particular, the treatment of monoidal categories and operads.

Quasicategories appeared (in HTT) when other models were much less developed (e.g., the foundational paper by Barwick and Kan on relative categories has not appeared yet), and today they are just one model out of many, which has exactly the same foundational status as relative categories, simplicial categories, etc. Some models, like complete Segal spaces, have better theoretical properties, other models, like relative categories, have a much better supply of examples.

In fact, quasicategories are typically constructed out of simplicial categories or dg categories (typically with a model structure, see Lurie's books for many examples), and given the fact that the underlying (∞,1)-categories of all these models are equivalent, one may wonder why one should bother with passing to quasicategories at all.

To summarize, quasicategories are themselves a model: a quasicategory presents an (∞,1)-category as an (∞,1)-colimit over Δ^op of (∞,1)-categories given by finite chains of composable morphisms. Such a presentation is often convenient to work with, in particular, when doing theoretical computations. But it is merely a presentation, and as such it will inevitably become inconvenient at least in some situations (such as those that require extensive use of (co)Cartesian fibrations). Why cripple oneself with just one model, when other models can be much better?

Dmitri Pavlov
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    I'd be really interested if you could point out an example where some model category of spectra is actually easier to work with (not a rhetorical question!). I've thought a bit about it, but I cannot, although that may be also because I'm very familiar with q-categories and constructions that seem trivial to me might seem very complicated to someone else. – Denis Nardin Feb 09 '19 at 19:50
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    @DenisNardin: I already pointed out such examples in my answer: monoidal categories and operads. Look at Lurie's Higher Algebra, for example, Chapter 4. – Dmitri Pavlov Feb 09 '19 at 19:54
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    I'm sorry, I am a bit confused. Constructing the monoidal structure on the ∞-category Sp seems very easy to me (there are at least two ways of doing that, and one is exactly the same as for the model categories of diagram spectra, using Day convolution). Or do you mean the development of the theory of ∞-operads? this does not seem too relevant to the present question, that is specifically about the usefulness of particular models for spectra – Denis Nardin Feb 09 '19 at 19:57
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    @DenisNardin: How exactly are ∞-operads not relevant when you work with A_∞- and E_∞-ring spectra? It is certainly much easier (in a precise sense: you need fewer lines of text) to construct a strict monoid in symmetric spectra than to construct an analog in quasicategories using fibrations. – Dmitri Pavlov Feb 09 '19 at 20:02
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    What I mean is that I'm taking the full of HTT and HA as a given (suppose we are developing them anyway for our own reasons), do we have applications that use the specific models for spectra? Sorry if I'm a bit unclear. Do you have specific examples of strict monoids in spectra that are "easier" to construct? – Denis Nardin Feb 09 '19 at 20:04
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    @DenisNardin: Yes, the Eilenberg–MacLane functor from the category of differential-graded rings to the category of symmetric ring spectra in simplicial sets is constructed immediately using the lax monoidal structure of the Dold–Kan functor, whereas the analogous construction in the quasicategorical world is far more involved. A more sophisticated example is given by the Quinn–Quillen ring spectra constructed out of bordisms of manifolds. – Dmitri Pavlov Feb 09 '19 at 20:28
  • As I stated in a different comment, your claims about fibrations are incorrect. See this paper for a model independent development of the basic theory: https://arxiv.org/abs/1702.02681 – Dylan Wilson Feb 09 '19 at 23:56
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    @DylanWilson: I made no claims about fibrations (other than the length of text involved in writing them down) in this post. To what statement are you referring? – Dmitri Pavlov Feb 10 '19 at 00:28
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    @DylanWilson: I am well aware of the paper by Ayala-Francis, and you do not need to point it out to me repeatedly. Your claims about fibrations being model-independent are incorrect: in order to recover Lurie's notion of a Cartesian fibration (say) from the Ayala-Francis model-independent notion one must impose an additional condition that the map involved is a fibration in the Joyal model structure. This additional condition has no model-independent meaning. – Dmitri Pavlov Feb 10 '19 at 00:32
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    @DylanWilson: The traditional notion of a Grothendieck fibration of 1-categories is also not invariant under equivalence of categories; the invariant notion is known as a Street fibration: https://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/Grothendieck%20fibration#StreetFibration. – Dmitri Pavlov Feb 10 '19 at 00:42
  • @DmitriPavlov I'd have to think about the Quinn-Quillen ring spectra (their construction seems quite model-independent to me), but constructing the symmetric monoidal Eilenberg-MacLane functor from dg-rings is quite trivial: it is the functor $\mathrm{Ch}(\mathbb{Z})[w^{-1}]→\mathrm{Sp}$ corepresented by the unit. This does use that the model structure on chain complexes is a symmetric monoidal stable model structure, but crucially doesn't even use that there is a model category presenting spectra. – Denis Nardin Feb 10 '19 at 08:08
  • @DenisNardin: How do you intend to prove that the underlying quasicategory of a stable model category is enriched over Sp? – Dmitri Pavlov Feb 10 '19 at 08:31
  • The suspension functor is a self-equivalence (by explicitely providing a homotopy inverse). – Denis Nardin Feb 10 '19 at 08:32
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    @DenisNardin: How does knowing that the suspension functor is a self-equivalance help us construct the enrichment over Sp? – Dmitri Pavlov Feb 10 '19 at 08:33
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    The enrichment sends a pair of objects $x,y$ to the functor $T\mapsto \mathrm{Map}_{\mathcal{C}}(x,T\otimes y)$ where $T$ is the natural tensoring with spaces. If you want further details, pop in the homotopy theory chatroom 'cause I don't think we are supposed to have conversations here. – Denis Nardin Feb 10 '19 at 08:34
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    @DenisNardin: I think that filling in the details will make this argument far more involved than it appears to be. Is this variant written up anywhere? As for not having conversations in comments, I never understood the point of that policy, and it is never enforced anyway. – Dmitri Pavlov Feb 10 '19 at 08:38
  • Ah, or more trivially, you do get a lax symmetric monoidal functor $\mathrm{Ch}(\mathbb{Z})[w^{-1}]\to \mathrm{Space}$ and then you use the universal property of $\mathrm{Sp}$ to provide the lax symmetric monoidal lift to spectra – Denis Nardin Feb 10 '19 at 08:38
  • @DmitriPavlov It's really trivial. Say, a paragraph's worth of arguments. I can write it down and send it to you if you want. – Denis Nardin Feb 10 '19 at 08:38
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    @DenisNardin: If you don't mind putting it somewhere accessible (say, for posterity), I think that would help people who just read this comment thread. By the way, are the discussions in chat saved permanently anywhere? – David White Feb 10 '19 at 14:36
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    @DenisNardin Another quick construction is: by the universal property of Sp amongst stable, symmetric monoidal, presentable $\infty$-categories, we get, for free, a colimit-preserving symmetric monoidal functor $\mathsf{Sp} \to \mathsf{D}(\mathbb{Z})$. The right adjoint is what we're after, which is automatically lax symmetric monoidal by nonsense. – Dylan Wilson Feb 10 '19 at 15:29
  • DylanWilson Yes, I realized it later. @DavidWhite I'm going to write it down with all references, following Dylan's suggestion which is cleaner but it's really short so I'll probably add a few remarks to make it at least a page long... – Denis Nardin Feb 10 '19 at 16:01
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    @DavidWhite Here it is, although I feel it goes on and on to prove what is, at heart, a fairly immediate idea. I hope it can be of help to someone, however. – Denis Nardin Feb 10 '19 at 17:05
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    @DenisNardin thanks for making it publicly available. I also fully support and encourage you to write up your work on $N_\infty$-operads. I think fighting each other about which framework to use is a waste of productivity, and runs the risk of discouraging people from working in homotopy theory. So let's all get back to real work! – David White Feb 11 '19 at 03:31