2

Good evening,

Consider $x^4+y^4+z^4=2t^4$ where x,y,z,t integer.

Is it known how to find all parametrisation of this equation ?

If you have any parametrisation or reference of this equation, please post it

Thank you.

user81854
  • 29
  • 2
  • What is the context? Why are you interested in this particular equation and in a parametrization [of its solutions?] ? – Arturo Magidin Oct 23 '15 at 19:05
  • Because I have an exercice , to solve my exercice I need parametrisation of this equation. – user81854 Oct 23 '15 at 19:22
  • Might it be easier to start with $x^{2} + y^{2} + z^{2} = 2t^{2}$? – Geoff Robinson Oct 23 '15 at 19:25
  • 3
    However, Mathoverflow is not for asking for help with your homework problems... – Arturo Magidin Oct 23 '15 at 19:26
  • 1
    Dear Arturo , I just ask if it is known parametrisation of the equation I posted. I don t ask solution of my homework. Don t patronize people. – user81854 Oct 23 '15 at 19:32
  • Geoff , for z=t we get pythaorean triple x^2+y^2=t^2. – user81854 Oct 23 '15 at 20:05
  • Geoff for z equal t , we get pythagorean triple in the equation you suggested. – user81854 Oct 23 '15 at 20:07
  • 4
    I'm letting you know that math.overflow is not supposed to be for asking for help with homework (note that I did not say you were asking for a solution). I'm sorry if you think it's patronizing, it is not intended to be. There are other sites that are more welcoming to that kind of question (e.g., math.stackexchange). P.S. When replying to someone specifically, they will get a notification if you use the "at" sign, @Geoff for example, will produce a clickable link and a notification to the user addressed, if that user has posted comments or the answer you are replying to. – Arturo Magidin Oct 23 '15 at 20:09
  • 1
    Well yes, but that does not parametrize the solutions of $x^{2}+y^{2}+z^{2} = 2t^{2}$. – Geoff Robinson Oct 23 '15 at 20:16
  • Finally I found reference for parametrisation of x^4+y^4+z^4=t^4+u^4 zone – user81854 Oct 23 '15 at 20:29
  • 4
    For those who are voting to close, I agree it's not great for the OP to say it's a homework problem; but it actually seems like a very hard problem, at least with the minor generalization of describing integers solutions for $x^4+y^4+z^4=at^4$ for different values of $a$. – Joe Silverman Oct 23 '15 at 20:36
  • 1
    @JoeSilverman who knows what OP actually need to do? They say "Because I have an exercice , to solve my exercice I need parametrisation of this equation." Why do they need this? What are they actually trying to achieve? Maybe OP is actually on the wrong track to solving their HW. Furthermore, to me "hard" is not the only or even main criterion to decide suitability. (On the other hand the mere fact it is related to HW would not bother me, if it were only clear what exactly is to be done.) I voted to close. –  Oct 24 '15 at 22:38

2 Answers2

6

Ramanujan gave two parametrizations: if $a+b+c=0$ then

$$a^4(b-c)^4+ b^4(c-a)^4+ c^4(a-b)^4= 2(ab+bc+ca)^4$$

and

$$(a^3+2abc)^4(b-c)^4+(b^3+2abc)^4(c-a)^4+(c^3+2abc)^4(a-b)^4=2(ab+ac+bc)^8$$

(listed in Mathworld, equations 144 and 146). See also Bhargava, S. (1992) On a family of Ramanujan's formulas for sums of fourth powers. Ganita, 43 (1-2). pp. 63-67. [abstract] [summary]

The F. Ferrari Identity (1909) gives

$$(a^2+2ac-2bc-b^2)^4+ (b^2-2ba-2ca-c^2)^4+ (c^2+2cb+2ab-a^2)^4 = 2(a^2+b^2+c^2-ab+bc+ca)^4$$

There is also K. Ford's Theorem: if $S_j=\sum_{i=j\,(\text{mod}\,3)}(-1)^i\binom ki a^{k-i}b^i$ then $$(S_0-S_1)^4+(S_1-S_2)^4+(S_2-S_0)^4=2(a^2+ab+b^2)^{2k}$$

For $k=2$ and $k=4$, the Ford parametrizations are the same as the two Ramanujan ones. For $k=2$, this is simple, and for $k=4$, $S_0 = a^4-4 a b^3$, $S_1 = b^4-4 a^3 b$, $S_2 = 6 a^2 b^2$, and

$$\begin{align} S_0 - S_1 = -(c^3+2abc)(a-b)\\ S_1 - S_2 = -(b^3+2abc)(c-a)\\ S_2 - S_0 = -(a^3+2abc)(b-c)\\ \end{align}$$

where $c=-a-b$.

Edit: A complete discussion of these identities, by S. Ramanujan, F. Ferrari and Kevin Ford, plus further identities by S. Bhargava, may be found on pages 96 to 101 of Bruce Berndt's Ramanujan's Notebooks, Part IV (1994), at e.g. http://www.plouffe.fr/simon/math/Ramanujan%27s%20Notebooks%20IV.pdf.

jeq
  • 1,228
  • 5
  • 16
  • 21
  • 1
    Correction: Link to Bruce Berndt's Ramanujan's Notebooks, Part IV, is now http://plouffe.fr/simon/math/Ramanujan's%20Notebooks%20IV.pdf. – jeq Mar 17 '16 at 17:01
  • 1
    Another update to the link: it now seems to need the Wayback Machine, https://web.archive.org/web/20150426023125/http://www.plouffe.fr/simon/math/Ramanujan's%20Notebooks%20IV.pdf. – jeq Jun 07 '16 at 18:57
2

What exactly do you mean by "paramatrization"? Anyway, since your equation is homogeneous, you're really asking for $\mathbb Q$-rational points on the surface $S$ in $\mathbb P^3$ defined by your equation. The surface $S$ is an example of what is known as a K3 surface. Most likely what you have in mind for a paramatrization would be homogeneous polynomials $x(u,v,w),y(u,v,w),z(u,v,w),t(u,v,w)\in\mathbb Z[u,v,w]$ so that you get all solutions by plugging in integer values of $u$, $v$, and $w$. Such a solution very likely does not exist. Here's why. First, there is no way to parametrize the complex solutions using polynomial functions $x(u,v,w),y(u,v,w),z(u,v,w),t(u,v,w)\in\mathbb C[u,v,w]$, because a K3 surface is not birationally equivalent to $\mathbb P^2$. So that means there are two possibilities. First, the integer solutions are Zariski dense, in which case you won't have a parametrization. Second, the integer solutions lie on a finite number of curves. (I don't know offhand how to distinguish between these two possibilities.) However, is is conjectured that for any K3 surface, there is a finite extension $K/\mathbb Q$ such that the $K$-rational points are Zariski dense. So if it happens that you can parametrize the integer solutions to your particular equation, that's in some sense because your field $\mathbb Q$ isn't big enough to really reflect the arithmetic structure of the problem. And the solutions won't be that interesting, since they'd only be a finite number of one-parameter families.

Joe Silverman
  • 45,660
  • Thank you Joe Silverman . I found reference for parametric solutions Gerardin 1910, Ferrari 1913 intermédiaire des maths x^4+y^4+z^4=t^4+g^4 – user81854 Oct 23 '15 at 20:52
  • 1
    Thank you jeq for your reply , but that one does not help me for my exercice, the condition a+b+c=0 is not good for my exercice.Monday I will try to find Gerardin and Ferrari in library , it is closed the week-end in Paris. – user81854 Oct 23 '15 at 21:50
  • 2
    @user81854 I don't understand. The three-fold $x^4+y^4+z^4=t^4+g^4$ is in fact birational to $\mathbb P^3$, so it can be "parametrized" (although the parametrization is likely to be messy). But solutions to this equation will not give you solutions to your original equation $x^4+y^4+z^4=2t^4$ unless $t=g$, and I can pretty much guarantee that the parametrization of the 5-variable equation will not have $t=g$ in general. There's a big difference between a (smooth) quartic surface in $\mathbb P^3$ and a (smooth) quartic 3-fold in $\mathbb P^4$, both in their geometry and in their arithmetic. – Joe Silverman Oct 24 '15 at 01:36