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In Italy, if I am asked by police for an ID or driving license, would it be lawful to give them a copy of the document (ID or driving licence) crossed and written over with "not usable for utility opening, subscription or any kind of profile"?

I'm asking because a series of events and power abuses towards me made me think to take these extra-precautions, and I fear my IDs might be taken picture of with one excuse or another and used to open any account or utility of any sort and facing the consequences afterwards.

abdul
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    What would I do if one of the unfortunate circumstances stated in the question come to occur? – abdul Nov 13 '22 at 14:17
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    It is very unlikely that the identity theft you alluded to was done by the police when they checked your drivers license. And even in the unlikely case it really were corrupt police officers who used the guise of checking your documents to open an account or subscription in your name, just scribbling "don't do that" won't stop them from doing it. – vsz Nov 14 '22 at 06:38
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    @vsz it won't stop them from trying, but it might stop the company or utility with which they are trying to open an account. – phoog Nov 14 '22 at 10:12
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    @phoog : if the police have the time to make a copy, they also have the time to look it up in their system and print it. Those documents were issued by them in the first place. – vsz Nov 14 '22 at 15:04
  • @vsz My concern is not the white-and-black copy, but the picture of the physical card they might take and send it to someone else for whatever. The copy ain't an issue for me – abdul Nov 14 '22 at 15:26
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    @vsz since we're talking about the possibility of identity theft by corrupt police officers it is not necessarily correct to suggest that the police who are processing the traffic stop are an equal security risk regardless of whether they have access to the original document. Police systems I'm familiar with do not in fact allow police officers to print copies of driver's licenses -- they only have access to the data, not a printable image of the document itself. – phoog Nov 14 '22 at 15:52

3 Answers3

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Official identity documents have security features that would be missing from a copy. When a government agency is entitled to check your documents, they are also entitled to check the security features of your documents.

Think about it -- if you could get away with handing over a copy, then someone else could hand over a photoshopped copy with your name in it.

o.m.
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    Which, ironically is what OP wants to prevent the "someone else" from doing. I guess some places do accept photocopies though but I'm not sure that would fly for anything important like opening accounts. – DKNguyen Nov 14 '22 at 00:25
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    @DKNguyen, the OP asked about a police check. If I don't like the document handling procedures of a bank, I can walk away and go to the competition. With a traffic control, no such choice. – o.m. Nov 14 '22 at 05:42
  • Logical though this appears, it doesn't actually answer the question ("is it lawful [in Italy]?"). – JBentley Nov 14 '22 at 10:53
  • The fact that they can cross-check through their database is an assumption for me. – abdul Nov 14 '22 at 11:33
  • @o.m. I did specify that I would have no choice when it comes to open a bank account, before my question was drastically and badly edited. – abdul Nov 14 '22 at 11:36
  • And in Italy I personally came across a lot of officials that are utterly ignorant, sneaky and unprofessional, hence, I'm not willing to go through a rollercoaster of legal proceeding sucking my energies and nerve load. It might be paranoia or silliness, however the source of all of this is the mistakes that certain authority workers commit, willingly or unwillingly, and knowing how Italian law networks work, compounded with lack of transparency and stupidity, I'm not willing to risk anything. – abdul Nov 14 '22 at 11:37
  • In other words, my highly unique experiences have led me to be in this way :). – abdul Nov 14 '22 at 11:43
  • @o.m. However the OP follows with "I fear my IDs might be taken picture of with one excuse or another and used to open any account or utility of any sort" which would require the corrupt police officer to then do these things with the photocopy of their ID. – DKNguyen Nov 14 '22 at 14:44
  • @DKNguyen No, they could do that by taking a picture of my ID, not a copy – abdul Nov 14 '22 at 15:29
  • @DKNguyen I meant by sending the pictures via mail or something. – abdul Nov 14 '22 at 15:30
  • I can't say how lawful it is in Italy. But I remember when we went to the beach. We did not bring our actual ID with us, by fear that our stuff would be stolen while it's on the beach while we're swimming in the water. So we used to bring photocopies. If a cop asks for ID while you're going to or coming from the beach, and you only have photocopies, at worse they're going to ask you to present yourself at a police station the next day with the originals. This was more about tolerance and understanding than about actual law. – Stef Nov 15 '22 at 15:03
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No, you must give the police the original documents.

Photocopies are allowed only for the car registration certificate, and only in very specific cases (road code, article 180, paragraph 4):

"Per i rimorchi e i semirimorchi di massa complessiva a pieno carico superiore a 3,5 t, per i veicoli adibiti a servizio pubblico di trasporto di persone e per quelli adibiti a locazione senza conducente, ovvero con facoltà di acquisto in leasing, la carta di circolazione può essere sostituita da fotocopia autenticata dallo stesso proprietario con sottoscrizione del medesimo."

"For trailers and semi-trailers with a total mass at full load exceeding 3.5 t, for vehicles used for public transport of persons and for those used for renting without a driver, or with the option of leasing purchase, the registration certificate can be replaced by a photocopy authenticated by the same owner with signature of the same."

The Italian traffic police answered the same question in their official website.

Vorbis
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Legaly, an ID (or passport, drivers licence etc.) is, in most countries, the property of the government that issued it.

Domestic laws states who and under what conditions these documents must be shown to the (in legal terms) representatives of the owner.

To put it bluntly: it is not for you to determine under what conditions a document, that doesn't belong to you, is to be used.

What would I do if one of the unfortunate circumstances stated in the question come to occur?

Do what the domestic laws says that you are required to do.

For any misuse, charges must be made against the person that commited that misuse.

Mark Johnson
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    "In most countries..." But is that true in Italy itself? – nick012000 Nov 13 '22 at 20:16
  • Is it even true for the driver's license in any EU country? – pipe Nov 14 '22 at 00:46
  • @nick012000,nike I know of no country where you 'buy' (when it belongs to you) such documents, only a fee to issue it. The issuing country can always demand that the documents be returned or revolk an issued one. – Mark Johnson Nov 14 '22 at 01:30
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    @MarkJohnson There's a difference between "the document can be revoked by the state" and "the document is the legal property of thr state". – nick012000 Nov 14 '22 at 02:25
  • @nick012000 What then would the legal basis be for a government to take away, where required, with force, that doesn't belong to them? Most passports do explicidly state that they are the property of the issuing country. – Mark Johnson Nov 14 '22 at 02:50
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    @MarkJohnson Most likely "possessing illegitimate documents is illegal", I imagine. – nick012000 Nov 14 '22 at 07:42
  • @nick012000 on top of that, the value of an identity document or driver's license as a tangible asset is negligible. The point of the license is to show that the person is permitted to drive on public roads. When that permission is revoked, the license is worth a couple of euros at most, which nobody can reasonably recover from it. The state's interest in forcing the driver to surrender the document to avoid fraudulent use outweighs this regardless of where the property rights lie. The state's reserving property rights (where it does) simplifies the analysis, but it's hardly critical. – phoog Nov 14 '22 at 10:23
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    That said, I do see a lot of Europeans using "buy" with documents such as passports and driver's licenses. This isn't the right word to use in English, and I don't know whether they use it because they just didn't know or couldn't think of the right word or because their own language uses the same word for commercial transactions and government license fees or service fees. – phoog Nov 14 '22 at 10:29