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https://9gag.com/gag/a3KMe67

A woman is caught shoplifting and in this video the guard called the police.

Is what the black man did illegal?

I've heard before that a thief have "right" to flee, and trying to knock him out is not justified because you can only use violence to protect your self, instead of yourmoney.

user4951
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    The laws of thief detainment vary state to state. For example, Nebraska does allow businesses to detain thieves while waiting for police, but only someone who is directly employed by that business can do so. If it were a privately contracted security officer, that officer works for the security company and not for the business, and thus cannot detain someone. But that aside, I've never heard of any general "right to flee" before. Most states also require security like this to go through training and become licensed, so that they know what they can and cannot do. – animuson Mar 05 '18 at 19:17
  • I've heard you can't just shot fleeing thieves. – user4951 Mar 05 '18 at 19:29
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    Shooting is very different than detaining. You generally shoot to kill. There's no reason to kill a thief - that's a bit overboard. Thus, shooting a fleeing thief would very likely not end well for you. – animuson Mar 05 '18 at 19:30
  • I mean you can detain them, hold them, may be punch them several times, not killing them. M'kay. – user4951 Mar 05 '18 at 19:56
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    @animuson Aside from "You generally shoot to kill" and "that's a bit overboard" being utterly ridiculous, the legal concept is called lethal (or deadly) force. Using lethal force during a property crime, by anyone - homeowner, security guard, general public - is simply illegal in most jurisdictions (i.e., except in some cases in Texas) because people are not in danger of their lives and deadly force is a disproportional response to a property crime. – BlueDogRanch Mar 05 '18 at 20:01
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    @J.Chang "may be punch them several times, not killing them". Ah, no. Punching without provocation or not in a case of self-defense will get you criminal assault or a civil lawsuit, or both. – BlueDogRanch Mar 05 '18 at 20:03
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    @BlueDogRanch It's less a matter of "shoot to kill" as that when you shoot someone it's very difficult to make sure you don't inflict a fatal injury. And "a bit overboard" is a casual way of saying "disproportional response". – JAB Mar 05 '18 at 20:58
  • Watching the video, it seems the security guard held on to her purse, not to the woman (and I think she could have left at that time, leaving her purse behind), and then she kicked him which I would say is assault. – gnasher729 Mar 05 '18 at 23:16
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    Maybe that should be another question, or added to the question: Is it legal to hold on to a thieves handbag or other property, to convince them not to run away and wait for the police? – gnasher729 Mar 05 '18 at 23:26
  • For example, what about if the burglars carry guns. Then obviously you can't just hold them. To stop them you got shoot them or let them go – user4951 Mar 06 '18 at 05:26

1 Answers1

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In most U.S. states, a citizen's arrest using proportionate non-deadly force is authorized when the citizen has witnessed the crime or has been asked by a law enforcement officer to assist in making an arrest. The U.S. Constitution is not violated by this authorization.

For example, in Colorado, citizens arrests (not made at the direction of a law enforcement officer) are authorized by Section 18-1-707(7) of the Colorado Revised Statutes, which states that:

A private person acting on his own account is justified in using reasonable and appropriate physical force upon another person when and to the extent that he reasonably believes it necessary to effect an arrest, or to prevent the escape from custody of an arrested person who has committed an offense in his presence; but he is justified in using deadly physical force for the purpose only when he reasonably believes it necessary to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of deadly physical force.

Generally speaking it is illegal in the context of a citizen's arrest to use: disproportionate force, force applied to punish rather than detain someone, or deadly force, although there are times when deadly force is authorized for reasons similar to those that would apply for self-defense in the absence of a citizen's arrest. Deadly force is generally not authorized to protect tangible personal property or most forms of real property, but some places authorize the use of deadly force to protect a residence.

I've heard before that a thief have "right" to flee, and trying to knock him out is not justified because you can only use violence to protect your self, instead of your money.

While it is understandable that you might think this based upon U.S. Supreme Court cases like Tennessee v. Garner (1985), the law is actually more nuanced and that case held that:

when a law enforcement officer is pursuing a fleeing suspect, the officer may not use deadly force to prevent escape unless "the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others." It was found that use of deadly force to prevent escape is an unreasonable seizure under the Fourth Amendment, in the absence of probable cause that the fleeing suspect posed a physical danger.

Thus, it is illegal to shoot to kill a fleeing thief or shoplifter, even though it is not illegal to restrain a shoplifter physically to prevent that shoplifter from fleeing the scene prior to the arrival of the police.

ohwilleke
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  • So if the shoplifter carries a gun, then it's legal to shoot them. – user4951 Mar 06 '18 at 05:28
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    @JChang No. If a shoplifter looks likely to shoot you (making it an armed robbery and not a shoplifting incident), it is legal to shoot them. The mere fact that a shoplifter is carrying a gun, if fleeing and not showing a likelihood of using it against anyone is not a justifiable basis to shoot them. – ohwilleke Mar 06 '18 at 11:54