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There is evidence that Phoenicia and Carthaginians found the Americas before the Europeans as suggested in this Wikipedia page.

We all know the basic story of Columbus wanting to find a short route to India but ending up in Central America.

Also, In Africa and the Discovery of America Leo Wiener says: Africans were already trading with Americans and Also there were Black people in Peru Before Columbus.

Plus there is scientific evidence of the current of the trade Winds in Africa and upper Europe toward the west. So it would be easier for Vikings and Africans to sail to America. additional link

So from this can we say that the knowledge about America already existed?

Is there significant proof of that?

xitas
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    I think OP is thinking of the North Atlantic trade winds. – SPavel Jan 27 '23 at 15:41
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    If Columbus had prior information about the location of the Americas, wouldn't he have used that when he was trying to secure funding for the voyages? – KillingTime Jan 27 '23 at 15:52
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    The only "knowledge about America" that existed in the Old World at that time was in the Norse maratime community, and that was from before printing, and a quarter of the globe away from where Columbus was sailing. – T.E.D. Jan 27 '23 at 16:11
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    wait let me give more reference – xitas Jan 27 '23 at 18:46
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    I’m voting to close this question because it is asking to provide evidence that a particular theory does not exist. – SPavel Jan 27 '23 at 18:50
  • I am giving evidence – xitas Jan 27 '23 at 18:51
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    "Africa and the Discovery of America" was published in 1922 and Wiener was a linguist rather than a historian. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and this ain't it. – SPavel Jan 27 '23 at 19:02
  • okay, Now I have to say if my question was against the community guidelines then close the question before giving the answer. Why wait? and why have a discussion on a topic that the community does approve of? I tried to change my question many times and tried to give a proper but still, it was not up to the standard. okay, no problem. – xitas Jan 28 '23 at 04:13
  • still, I got really good information after asking the question. even though not meant for the community still happy to learn new info. – xitas Jan 28 '23 at 04:15
  • Africans did make it to the Americas well before Columbus. They mostly walked there, arriving many many years before Columbus… – Jon Custer Jan 28 '23 at 16:44
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    @SPavel Linguists can add value to the historical debate. There are many that analyze linguistic traits and suggest possible links, which may be worth investigating. Therefore there is no reason to discount linguistic evidence just based your perceived lack of credibility on the whole field. If an author writes a piece suggesting a linguistic connection with proper evidence, it's certainly worthy to enter the historical debate. – Smith Jan 29 '23 at 16:54
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    I think this question is answerable, therefore I disagree with closing it. However, the OP has a rather wide scope. Yes, SOME people knew about the Americas, so the answer is in a word YES to the question "So from this can we say that the knowledge about America already existed?". But a perspective is needed - to whom and when is the OP directing the question? So the question could be improved by asking "Did person X of the year Y have knowledge of the Americas?" – Smith Jan 29 '23 at 17:00
  • @Smith I tried but this community is so toxic. – xitas Jan 29 '23 at 20:05
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    @T.E.D. - there is a map by Piri Reis, dated to 1513. On it, there are charted several areas that were definitely not known at the time, like Falkland Islands, Cape horn (discovered in 1616), Antarctica (land UNDER the ice, not the ice sheet), only one of twenty used to draw it was, by Reis' own admission, made by Columbus. So definitely knowledge was there. How widely available - hard to say. – AcePL Jan 30 '23 at 09:01
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    @AcePL - Almost all speculative world maps of that era (not just Reis') showed a large southern continent, due to some weird desire to make the earth 50% land. They used to call that putative continent Terra Australia, until such a continent was discovered, given the name, and then found not to actually extend nearly that far south. As for Reis, when studied his sources for the New World all turned out to be Columbus. – T.E.D. Jan 30 '23 at 14:20
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    @T.E.D. Hmm... The map shows Rio de la Plata, Falklands and other locations, which were unknown at the time. It's not just Antarctica. Yes, it's not great, and we have just a third of it surviving, but that's not the point. That it shows South America and Antarctica connected is also beside the point (almost, and I'd say it's an error), because what's important is the accuracy with which land mass (again, not ice sheet) of Antarctica is shown. Also, just to point out yet again: Rio de la Plata is discovered in 1516, and that it is that is unmistakable... – AcePL Jan 30 '23 at 17:50
  • Possible duplicate of https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/19027/did-portuguese-fisherman-visit-new-england-prior-to-1492 – Dave Gremlin Feb 02 '23 at 19:24

2 Answers2

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No, because Columbus didn't know about America

Columbus set out to find an alternative route to East Asia, after the closing of the Silk Road by the Ottomans. This is the argument he made to the Spanish crown, and the Portuguese earlier; this is also why the Portuguese rejected him, since they already had a sea-based trade route south around Africa, discovered four years before Columbus's voyage (and also recognized how bogus Columbus's calculations were).

Due to shoddy mathematics, Columbus believed that by sailing West, he could reach East Asia more quickly. He had no idea that his measurements were completely off, and that there was a whole other continent in the way. By the time he made landfall, he still thought he was in China. It took ten years for anyone to realize that this was actually a new continent.

SPavel
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    yes, that is the common knowledge everyone knows but I am asking if is there any evidence for an alternative theory or if it is false altogether. – xitas Jan 27 '23 at 18:38
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There is no reliable or verifiable evidence which proves that Christopher Columbus got "information about America from Africans", nor is there a shred of evidence proving that there were any African sailors aboard the Nina, Pinta or the Santa Maria.

I would say that such a question is a stretch of the historical imagination, considering the fact that Christopher Columbus never traveled to the African continent-(unless one considers The Canary Islands as a distant part of the African continent), nor did Columbus have any direct contact with African peoples. (It is possible that Columbus may have traveled through Morocco, due to its very close proximity to Spain, though the evidence for such a claim is flimsy...at best).

Columbus's travels began within the Mediterranean sea region and then with his "discovery" of America-(which in actuality, was The Bahamas), Columbus then ventured throughout the Carribean, Central America and the Northern part of South America-(though never "setting foot" in the continental United States). And, as a reminder, Columbus's initial journey was originally planned for the East Indies whereby he would establish distant trade routes with countries, such as India, Sri Lanka, Indonesia-(and perhaps even China).

I am not sure how Africa and Africans are central to the "discovery" of America during Columbus' time. The first Africans were brought to America-(primarily as slaves), by the Spanish Conquistador, Ponce De Leon in 1512/13...more specifically, to Northern Florida-(what is today, Saint Augustine), twenty years AFTER Columbus' accidental "discovery" of the AmericaS. This is the more traditionally acceptable view regarding the origins of the first Africans to the Americas-(or at least to America proper).

There is also no reliable or verifiable historical or archeological evidence that either the Phoenicians-(or their North African cousins, the Carthaginians), had ever "discovered" America over 2000 years ago. Such a thesis is rooted in lore and mythology...but not rooted in historical and archeological science.

Alex
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  • Last paragraph: there is the Micmac writing system. – Tomas By Jan 27 '23 at 19:51
  • What exactly does the Micmac writing system have to do with this question or my answer? Please elaborate. Thank you. – Alex Jan 27 '23 at 20:00
  • It could be historical evidence of Phoenician/Carthaginian knowledge of America, e.g. Egyptians travelling in their ships or whatever. – Tomas By Jan 27 '23 at 20:08
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    As I stated in my answer, the notion of Phoenicians, Carthaginians, Egyptians or for that matter, Greeks & Romans....or an Mediterranean peoples traveling to America and/or the Americas 2000 plus years ago, based on the reliable historical and archeological evidence that we have before us, is a "stretch of the historical imagination". It is true that the Romans built a Lighthouse in La Coruna, Spain 2000 years ago-(which still stands) and La Coruna is located on the Atlantic side of the Iberian peninsula. And the Romans founded a city called, Baelo Claudia near present-day Tarifa, Spain.... – Alex Jan 27 '23 at 20:41
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    The Nina, Pinta, & Santa Maria were owned by 3 "Afro-Spanish brothers", and largely staffed with sailors from a sailing town recently conquered from Andalusia. So there definitely were "African" ties, if you count north Africa. IMHO that's a sloppy use of terminology (Africa is a damn big and diverse place, and this was just one extremity of it), but yeah technically African. – T.E.D. Jan 27 '23 at 20:42
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    which is directly across from the Straits of Gibraltar-(or what the Romans and Greeks referred to as, "The pillars of Hercules"). And being in very close proximity to the beginnings of the Atlantic Ocean, MAY have possibly and potentially led the Romans to venture way beyond continental Europe. But, again, there is absolutely no evidence which proves that such ancient expeditions to America or the Americas ever happened. Sure, it's possible, but, archeologically and historically speaking, there is just no evidence to prove such claims. – Alex Jan 27 '23 at 20:44
  • As I had indicated in my answer, it is possible that Columbus traveled to Morocco-(which is directly across from Andalusia) and that so-called, "Afro-Spanish brothers" may have owned or co-owned the Nina, Pinta and Santa Maria ships. However, "Afro-Spanish", most likely translates as the Moors or Berbers, but not necessarily Sub-Saharan Africans in West Africa. Based on the historical geography, sure, it is very likely that Columbus was in direct contact with the Moors and Berbers, but he would have hardly been in contact with Sub-Saharan West Africans-(maybe perhaps via the Canary Islands), – Alex Jan 27 '23 at 20:49
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    but again, that too, is a likely "stretch of the historical imagination." – Alex Jan 27 '23 at 20:49
  • Well, it is at least as much a stretch to believe that a 17th c. priest "invented" a writing system that just happened to be almost identical to Egyptian hieroglyphics, 61 years before they were deciphered. – Tomas By Jan 27 '23 at 21:08
  • There is also the upper peninsula copper mines, but I am not sure what we are presently supposed to believe about that. – Tomas By Jan 27 '23 at 21:14
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    Micmac looks nothing like Egyptian. Here's an actual sample: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0e/Mikmaq_sample_%28ave_Maria%29.jpg – cmw Jan 27 '23 at 21:32
  • @cmw I see some resemblances (just clicking back and forth here), eg the angular wave kind of thing. All those crosses, and the letters `A' are not in Fell's examples, and seem to be obvious priestly additions. – Tomas By Jan 27 '23 at 22:18
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    That's because Fell picked and chose his examples and didn't want to share what destroyed his hypothesis. It's all nonsense. – cmw Jan 27 '23 at 22:34
  • I was writing this comment while you posted: that does not "destroy" his claim, as the Micmacs (or whoever) could have added other symbols that were not Egyptian to begin with. But if there is a sizeable correspondance, as Fell's tables seem to indicate, then that needs to be explained. – Tomas By Jan 27 '23 at 22:36
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    My suggestion to Tomas and cmw is to stick with the question regarding Christopher Columbus, America and Africans. Discussions regarding the Micmac language and its possible relationship with Egyptian hieroglyphs, while interesting, is, frankly speaking, immaterial to this overall discussion. – Alex Jan 27 '23 at 22:59
  • @Alex: I'm copying this comment I posted on the other Q. Interesting quote here: "We need to ask not only what Fell has done wrong in his epigraphy, but also where we have gone wrong as archaeologists in not recognizing such an extensive European presence in the New World." – Tomas By Jan 27 '23 at 23:28
  • The Niño brothers were afro-spanish in the same sense than Angelina Jolie, Tory Amos, Megan Fox and Jessica Biel are native american. In the sense that only americans are interested in. – Rekesoft Feb 03 '23 at 09:49