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I like pull-ups, easily my favorite exercise and I do a lot of them whenever I get the chance. I'm quite familiar with form, do them very strict (elbow lock-out, chin way over bar etc) and vary my grip often. Still, I'd like to add some more peak power to the movement and I'm not sure how. My eventual goal is to progress to a muscle-up, but the bar in my apartment is too close to the ceiling for me to practice this. :)

I guess learning to do a kipping pull-up would be a good idea, but as long as I remember I've been focusing on maintaining absolute control and tension, and a kipping pull-up is completely opposite all that. If kipping pull-ups are the answer, I'd appreciate a link to some good resources on learning to do them.

While my goal is more speed-strength in general, I'd be even happier if the suggestions have carry-over to muscle-ups. Currently, I can do about 10-12 pulls without much problem. I tend to train by "greasing the groove" and doing sets of 4-6, but I also travel a lot and don't have a bar everywhere, so this isn't daily or anything. I'm more interested in exercise suggestions than full programs.

Also, I rock-climb, so any carry-over is welcome (but I am looking for power outside the context of rock-climbing, too).

VPeric
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    Do you mean power in the specific sense of speed-strength? And if so, are you looking for peak power (e.g. upper body explosiveness) or maximum power output (Crossfit's goal of maximum sustained work over time)? – Dave Liepmann Aug 29 '12 at 17:56
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    I'm in about the same position as you - can do about a dozen chest to bar pullups. I wouldn't write this up as an answer, but have you thought about doing weighted pullups? I was planning on doing them soon as a way to continue to build strength in the pullup-motion, with the goal of working towards a one-arm pullup. I'm curious to see what answers this question will get. :) – DavidR Aug 29 '12 at 17:57
  • Yeah, I'd second @DaveLiepmann 's question - what's your goal? A muscle up? – DavidR Aug 29 '12 at 17:57
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    If you can do 12 strict pullups, you are very likely strong enough for a muscle up. The limiting factor will be technique. – michael Aug 29 '12 at 18:47
  • @DaveLiepmann Yes, power as in speed-strength. I'm looking more for peak power. – VPeric Aug 29 '12 at 19:09
  • @DavidR Yes, I did do weighted pull-ups for a time, it helped me break the 12 plateau; I unfortunately didn't stick with it (I think I even wrote about this somewhere on this site). My goal is peak power, and another goal is a muscle-up. I hope the two have at least something in common. Currently my schedule is not conductive to any organized programming, so I'm mostly fishing for ideas for when I can focus on this (from October or so). – VPeric Aug 29 '12 at 19:14
  • @michael I'm sure it is, but as I said, I've nowhere to practice (consistently) so I don't know! Once I actually attempt it and see how it goes, I'm sure another question will be forthcoming. :) – VPeric Aug 29 '12 at 19:15
  • Oh, a climbing question! – DavidR Aug 29 '12 at 22:25
  • miss typed there. What level do you climb at? What are your goals? I lead 5.11+/5.12- sport routes, and I rarely feel that upper back strength is a limiting factor (the dozen pullups I can do is enough for this level). Eric Horst talks about developing "lockoff strength", and this seems to be something that boulderers I know train for. So there its not really a question of "power" (explosive strength), but having a high level of isometric strength. I'd imagine that weighted pullups would be a good way to train for this, that's my plan at least. – DavidR Aug 29 '12 at 22:32
  • I should say, I'm emphatically not saying that getting more pullup strength isn't a good idea, either on its own terms, or to help with other goals. I don't boulder much, but it seems like bouldering requires a lot more one-arm-lockoff strength, and continuing to build pullup-strength would no doubt help with that. – DavidR Aug 29 '12 at 22:42
  • @DavidR Can you describe "lockoff strength"? – Dave Liepmann Aug 29 '12 at 23:31
  • oh, sorry. Climber jargon. Its this kind of strength: http://spotsettingblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/thomasiniapidgeon2.jpg This woman's right arm is "locked off" – DavidR Aug 30 '12 at 03:53
  • @DavidR I'm very much a beginner, I can lead maybe a 5/5+ (which is... 5.6/5.7 I guess). All my climbing needs is practice, I know that strength is not a limiting factor. I mention it because Dave noted many movements are sport-specific so I figured it might be relevant, but as I've said, it's not my primary motivation for wanting to get better. I guess pure strength (and power) are much more important once you get to "inclined" routes, but those are aways off for me. But please feel free to write an answer from a rock-climbers perspective! (BTW, I'd love to see more questions on climbing) – VPeric Aug 30 '12 at 09:03
  • For climbing strength, I'd say you're on the right path. My dozen pullups are strong enough for the routes I'm tackling now, but I feel limited when I get on routes with big roofs, or bouldering problems with big power moves. More pulling strength would probably be helpful. Even like V3/V4 gym boulder problems can be too much for me. I personally plan on training weighted pullups, and a front-lever progression, to help tackle them. – DavidR Aug 30 '12 at 14:52

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It sounds like you want to start incorporating muscle-ups and weighted pull-ups whenever possible. I don't think kipping pull-ups are really appropriate for a number of reasons, but if they float your boat (and you have a healthy, strong, flexible shoulder girdle), rock 'em.

Upper-Body Pulling Power

Power is not a common goal for upper body pulls, though it makes sense for a number of applications (combat sports, particularly grappling, come to mind). My go-to methods for developing speed-strength in that movement pattern would be sets of chest-to-bar chin-ups and/or pull-ups, eventually progressing to clapping pull-ups, muscle-ups (on a bar as well as rings), and climbing rope. A lot of the power work in that movement pattern ends up being sport-specific for me, such as fit-ins for judo throws.

(I realize that some of those might not be appropriate for your situation.)

Strength Informs Power

I'm not a big fan of kipping pull-ups. They seem to me to be a diversion from my goals of strength, power, and flexibility. They require all those things, but I think they're too risky for shoulder health, and they don't seem to develop those qualities as efficiently as other methods. (Though if I were a gymnast, I'd be singing a different tune.) I think that instead of developing power, kipping pull-ups would develop strength-endurance and work capacity.

I think that the surest path to upper-body pulling power would be to get strong as hell. Power is a function of strength, after all, so getting stronger will usually automatically make one more powerful.

All the methods listed above would apply to a strength-oriented approach, but so would working up to one-arm chins, as well as weighted pull-ups.

I made the mistake of switching from high-volume chin-ups and pull-ups (something like 3 sets of 12-15) to low-volume weighted chins (3 sets of 3-5 reps with 25-60 pounds extra). Once I work back up to 15 chins in a row, I'm going to add weighted chins as a supplement, not a replacement: 2 sets of 12 to 15 reps unweighted, 1 set of 7 to 10 reps with weight.

Dave Liepmann
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  • Thanks, you've mostly confirmed what I already thought - many of the things you mentioned are on my list of "to-get" (actual room for muscle-ups, rings, rope to climb). I also agree with you on kipping pull-ups, it was just a thought (but I'm glad I had the sense to ask about it here). As far as sport-specific goes, I rock-climb, but that's not my main motivation. – VPeric Aug 29 '12 at 20:26
  • BTW, as far as work capacity goes, I've always wanted to try burpee-pullups, but again, the bar I have is too low, so when I jump there's hardly any room for pulling. – VPeric Aug 29 '12 at 20:27
  • Oh, and -- what is your opinion on chest pull-ups? I do them occasionally but I could put more focus on them. Are they helpful in this context, or should I consider them just another pull-up variation? – VPeric Aug 29 '12 at 20:31
  • @VPeric 1) I could be wrong on kipping! I'd get a second opinion and decide for yourself. 2) Push-up, jump, land, grab bar, pull-up, repeat. Oof. 3) I don't know "chest pull-ups". Are those where you touch your chest to the bar? I consider that to be the pull-up ideal. Perfect form. – Dave Liepmann Aug 29 '12 at 20:34
  • Yep, definitely waiting on other answers! 3) I've also seen them called "sternum pull-ups"; yes, the general idea is to touch the chest (sternum) to the bar. There's a slight form change compared to "normal" pull-ups as the body cannot remain perpendicular to the ground, but you're probably right that I should do more of them. :)
    • – VPeric Aug 29 '12 at 20:45
  • @DaveLiepmann - when you follow your plan of "2 sets @ bodyweight, 1 set weighted", are you able to make linear progress in the weights on the weighted set? I'm curious how you found that "sets across" weighted was a mistake? I was thinking of starting that soon. – DavidR Aug 29 '12 at 22:46
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    @DavidR Linear progress with weighted chins is, by all accounts I've seen, veeeeery different from, say, bench press. Less "add 5 pounds each workout" and more "when you can do 3 sets of 10 at that weight, add 5 pounds". I don't see anything wrong with 3 sets weighted as long as the reps stay in the 7-10 range; my mistake was letting the total reps for a workout drop below 15. – Dave Liepmann Aug 29 '12 at 23:30