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A debate among many people of a more conservative, traditionalist bent is that being gay and being transgender are mental disorders. Despite the protestations by pediatricians and psychologists that they aren't, they insist that the pediatricians and psychologists are being political and not disinterestedly seeking the Truth.

However, there is a way to settle this question. Are there any gay or transgender hunter-gatherers?

It is known among anthropologists that mental disorders simply do not exist among hunter-gatherer tribes. Not schizophrenia, not bipolar disorder, not PTSD, etc.... Therefore, if hunter-gatherers do not have gay or transgender members, then that would be a slam-dunk proof that being gay and transgender are mental disorders. And if hunter-gatherers do have gay or transgender members, then that would be a slam-dunk proof that being gay and transgender are not mental disorders.

What is the verdict among anthropologists?

Fomalhaut
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    "It is known among anthropologists that mental disorders simply do not exist among hunter-gatherer tribes" - Oh really? It is known? Based on what, exactly? – Bryan Krause Feb 07 '23 at 04:05
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    "[.......]then that would be a slam-dunk proof that being gay and transgender are mental disorders. And if hunter-gatherers do have gay or transgender members, then that would be a slam-dunk proof that being gay and transgender are not mental disorders." This seems very black and white to you. Why do you chose to ignore more complex possible alternative explanations? – Jiminy Cricket. Feb 07 '23 at 04:50
  • @JiminyCricket Because, according to the Catholic Church, salvation depends on having the correct beliefs: "Whoever desires to be saved should above all hold to the catholic faith. Anyone who does not keep it whole and unbroken will doubtless perish eternally." - Creed of Athanasius (which most historians believe was not literally written by St. Athanasius of Alexandria) – Fomalhaut Feb 07 '23 at 05:43
  • For a balanced view on homosexuality in psychology, read through https://psychology.stackexchange.com/q/17540/7604 – Chris Rogers Feb 07 '23 at 06:58
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    @AmatsukiLove That sounds like a problem for the Catholic Church, not a tool for understanding psychology. – Bryan Krause Feb 07 '23 at 16:10
  • @BryanKrause According to most traditional Catholics, the relationship between faith and morality is divine command theory: "God 3000 years ago said don't do X, therefore it is wrong to do X". Divine command theory presupposes David Hume's fact-value distinction. The Truth on the relationship between faith and morality is more complex: science does have something to say about what is moral and what isn't, and the fact-value distinction is false. It is necessary to have a thorough investigation on these two subjects in order to discover what is moral. – Fomalhaut Feb 07 '23 at 16:16
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    @AmatsukiLove Okay, well, you're not in a Catholic seminary, you're on a Q&A site about Psychology and Neuroscience. Neither psychology nor neuroscience depends on what Catholics (16% of people) think of either. That said, there is very little record of God saying much at all, the vast majority of Catholic doctrine has been laid down by men choosing to interpret vague writings however they wish, and notably those men, especially very devout ones, have frequently disagreed with each other and disagree with each other today - doesn't seem like a productive way to find Truth. – Bryan Krause Feb 07 '23 at 16:23

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Yes, there are many known hunter-gatherer communities that include transgender and/or gay individuals. See for instance this research paper: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24091924/ (Please be aware that the researchers use terminology that is deemed unacceptable in most scientific and social settings nowadays. For instance: they indicate transgender women as 'transgendered males').

Similarly, this paper discusses the presence (and absence) of homosexuality across many different societies and over time: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4534200/

Other research has found that homosexuality is less prevalent in hunter-gatherer societies than in agropastoral societies, but prevalent nonetheless. The author presents theory as to why this difference exists: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/311913894_Is_Homosexuality_more_Prevalent_in_Agropastoral_than_in_Hunting_and_Gathering_Societies_Evidence_from_the_Standard_Cross-Cultural_Sample

Based on these sources, you can conclude that homosexuality and transgender identities are present throughout many cultures. You can also use Google to find more studies with similar results.

Lastly, your premise is faulty. Mental illnesses do occur in hunter gatherer societies. See for instance these papers: https://doi.org/10.14989/68393 (Free PDF & https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-71346-1_6 & https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0277953600000125, or read chapter 5 of this book: https://books.google.nl/books?id=PdCIEAAAQBAJ&lpg=PA64&ots=OoYQKDwVze&dq=mental%20disorders%20hunter%20gatherer&lr&pg=PA64#v=onepage&q&f=false

Perhaps a more important question is why you would ask this. Especially in the context of psychology and neuroscience, it is strange to follow the (faulty) argumentation of conservatives, instead of following leading psychological and medical expert organizations like the APA (see for instance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_the_DSM#). I.e., saying homosexuality and transgenderism are mental illnesses is unscientific.

Chris Rogers
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bobi
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