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Myr Superion is a 2 mana 5/6 that comes with the following casting restriction:

Spend only mana produced by creatures to cast Myr Superion.

Under most circumstances this wouldn't be ambiguous, but I'm not sure how it interacts with type-changing effects. Specifically, I want to know whether Myr Superion could be cast with mana produced in the following ways:

  • Blinkmoth Nexus is tapped for mana, then animated using some other mana.
  • Palladium Myr is tapped for mana, then stops being a creature e.g. due to Song of the Dryads.
  • Deathrite Shaman is tapped to activate its first ability, which goes on the stack because it is not a mana ability, and then stops being a creature before that ability resolves.

I wasn't able to find any lands which could produce mana using an ability that is not a mana ability, but I suspect I will be able to deduce that hypothetical outcome based on the others listed.

In other words, when casting Myr Superion does a mana source need to be a creature when the ability was activated, when the ability resolved, or when the Superion is cast?

DarkCygnus
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Kamil Drakari
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2 Answers2

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The ability checks what produced the mana. This means that, to be used to cast Myr Superion, the source of the ability that produced the mana must have been a creature at the time the mana was produced (i.e. when the ability resolved).

As @Natedogg2 of #magicjudges-rules said, "Producing the mana, then making the source into a creature does not count."

ikegami
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  • So, in the case of Deathrite Shaman activating its first ability, then stops being a creature while the ability is on the stack, the mana would not be usable? That's interesting, and not what I would have guessed. The more you know, I suppose – Belgabad Feb 11 '19 at 21:26
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    @Belgabad, If the Shaman simply ceased to exist (e.g. because it was destroyed) before the mana was created, then the mana would be considered created by a creature (because of LKI). If the Shaman still exists but lost the creature type before the mana was created, then the mana would be considered created by a non-creature. – ikegami Feb 11 '19 at 21:28
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Yes, the mana source would need to be a creature on the battlefield when the mana was created. Mana is not tied to the object that created it, but has some characteristics based on that object when the mana was created, just most things in magic, the source stops mattering once the effect goes on stack and/or resolves.

Myr Superion does not check the source of the mana in the way you're thinking, but looks for the characteristics of that mana, and the mana "remembers" it's characteristics until it is spent or it empties from the pool, we know this because mana with conditions that is prevented from emptying from the pool by effects like Omnath, Locus of Mana or Kruphix, God of Horizons still keeps any restrictions or other characteristics from turn to turn, even after modified by Kruphix's ability, as seen in the ruling on Kruphix:

If unused mana in your mana pool has any restrictions or riders associated with it (for example, if it was produced by Cavern of Souls), those restrictions or riders will remain associated with that mana when it becomes colorless.

Andrew
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  • Do you have a source for this? I think the answer is the opposite, but I can't find anything conclusive either way. – murgatroid99 Feb 11 '19 at 20:32
  • You say "when the mana ability was activated and the mana created", but as I mentioned in the Deathrite Shaman example some abilities which create mana are not mana abilities, and thus it's possible that a permanent was a creature when that ability was activated, but not when it creates mana. Is your position that the source must be a creature at both of these times in order to count? – Kamil Drakari Feb 11 '19 at 20:34
  • @murgatroid99 Look at the ruling on mana with Kruprix, riders on the mana stay permanently, that would include the characteristics of the source. Say a player creates mana with a creature then casts Wrath of God, is that no longer mana produced by a creature, since the object is no longer a creature on the battlefield? – Andrew Feb 11 '19 at 20:35
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    @murgatroid99, I'm inclined to agree with Andrew's conclusion. The ability checks how it was produced. – ikegami Feb 11 '19 at 20:38
  • That's not what restrictions and riders are. Those are parts of the ability that creates the mana that modify how the mana can be used or what happens when you spend it. Also, your Wrath of God thing is irrelevant because that's handled by last known information. – murgatroid99 Feb 11 '19 at 20:38
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    @KamilDrakari That would only care when the ability was put on the stack, not when it resolved I would say, when abilities go onto the stack, unless they specify otherwise they are no longer connected directly to what put the ability on stack (exceptions like fight). – Andrew Feb 11 '19 at 20:39
  • @ikegami My interpretation is that the ability checks what object produced the mana, and that would be a reference to the object, not a description of the object's characteristics. – murgatroid99 Feb 11 '19 at 20:39
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    Re "That would only care when the ability was put on the stack", Ok, that makes absolutely no sense to me. The mana is only created resolution. It shouldn't matter what the source of the ability was when the ability was activated. – ikegami Feb 11 '19 at 20:40
  • @murgatroid99 Is snow mana snow mana if the source gained the snow supertype after the mana is produced? – Andrew Feb 11 '19 at 20:41
  • @murgatroid99, Your interpretation makes sense too. I think this question needs to be brought to a higher authority. – ikegami Feb 11 '19 at 20:42
  • @Andrew That's essentially the same question asked slightly differently. In both cases you're looking at a restriction on what mana can be spent on a cost based on a characteristic of the source of that mana. – murgatroid99 Feb 11 '19 at 20:43
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    I have sent a question to the "Ask a Magic Judge" tumblr blog. We'll see if we get a response. – murgatroid99 Feb 11 '19 at 20:55
  • @murgatroid99 seems like we have an answer and they agree with ikegami and myself. – Andrew Feb 11 '19 at 21:18