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I am part of an organisation which regularly flies high-powered rockets, and thus files a TFR when we do so prohibiting aircraft from the area where we launch these rockets up to 10,000 ft. This TFR is frequently violated, presumably unintentionally, requiring that we stop our current launches and wait for the aircraft to leave. However, there are sometimes situations where an aircraft sees the rockets and seemingly comes to investigate or remains within the airspace as they are oblivious.

Would someone on the ground with a handheld air band radio be allowed to communicate with these aircraft to warn them that they are violating a TFR? Would that be permissible on guard, or would there be a different, more appropriate frequency? I am not an aviator so I am not sure if I could read a VFR chart to determine if there is a local frequency.

A further scenario that I am curious about ground use of the guard frequency would be in the case of witnessing a plane crash, if per chance you had an air band radio would it be appropriate to radio the location of the crash to any listening controllers/aircraft, or is this prohibited?

Goulash
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    Hi Goulash, welcome to Aviation.SE! Is there a reason that your organization is able to file TFRs but not able to determine whether an appropriate radio frequency exists? I'm not asking maliciously, I'm just surprised that the responsible party for the TFR wouldn't have or be able to determine that information already. – Steve V. Aug 22 '21 at 04:22
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    I have no idea, I'm not involved with the organisational side at all, I'm just involved in the rocketry side of it. I'm only asking this question out of personal curiosity, not for advice to give to the organisation. My curiosity comes from a tangential interest in aviation and radio communications. It's certainly possible someone within the organisation who is responsible for filing the TFRs already knows the answer to this question, but I don't know who to ask and I still figured here would be a good place to get some good insight about rules for non-aircraft use of aviation frequencies. – Goulash Aug 22 '21 at 04:31
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    Fair enough, it's a good question and I'm interested to learn the answers as well! – Steve V. Aug 22 '21 at 04:33
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    Assuming this is for amateur rocket launch, for US/FAA these TFR are managed like described in JO 7400.2 section 31. A waiver is granted by FAA, it should contain instructions for preventing intrusions, possibly a live contact with ATC (31−2−7) or a specific frequency announced in the activation NOTAM (31−2−8). Have you seen this waiver or a NOTAM? – mins Aug 22 '21 at 10:29
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    Related: Which FCC license do I need to operate an aviation radio on the ground? – Bianfable Aug 22 '21 at 12:55
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    In an emergency, anything can be acceptable. For example there was fairly recent incident at Paris CDG where a mix-up between ATC and a flight crew resulted in the crew thinking they were instructed to make a late change to a parallel runway during approach, and would have landed on a runway that was already occupied. A pilot who was waiting for takeoff clearance realized what was happening and explicitly impersonated ATC, using the tower frequency, to instruct the landing plane to go round. (And the instruction was complied with, averting an accident). – alephzero Aug 22 '21 at 20:58
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    @alephzero I'm not quite sure I'd say they impersonated ATC. The easyJet crew first called the tower to report the situation, saying "Tower, there is a traffic landing 09R," and then realizing the urgency of the situation called for the go around themselves: "Go around 09R go around." That's less impersonation of ATC and more one pilot addressing the other aircraft directly. – Zach Lipton Aug 22 '21 at 23:58
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    @ZachLipton Yeah, agreed. I didn't take that as an attempt to impersonate ATC at all, but rather one crew communicating to another upon noticing about an urgent action they needed to take. Which is, of course, always acceptable on aviation frequencies. Same as when the United crew told Air Canada that they were lined up on a parallel taxiway at SFO seconds before they were about to touch down on it (and the line of airplanes sitting on it.) – reirab Aug 23 '21 at 04:21
  • @alephzero: "In an emergency, anything can be acceptable", right in general and it's good to mention it. However there is an exception: You may have been given a more suitable mean to act in case of emergency, In the case of TFR, if the FAA waiver contains a way to report / prevent intrusion and which is usable, then it must be used, this is why I asked the OP whether they read the waiver, before starting to create another way to act in case of emergency. – mins Aug 23 '21 at 11:43
  • It would probably be a lot easier, (and more appropriate) to coordinate with ATC by phone when an aircraft enters the TFR. After all, they control the airspace. You are just borrowing it and have no real authority. – Michael Hall Aug 23 '21 at 16:23

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As a former FAA ATC'er, National Association of Rocketry high-power Level 3 certificate holder, and the facility approver guy for high-power rocketry waivers in our facility airspace, if you are in the USA, you do NOT have a temporary flight restriction (TFR) for your rocket launch, but instead you have an FAR waiver and a notice to airmen (NOTAM). This merely informs the public that launch activities are taking place. Pilots are not precluded from flying through the NOTAMed airspace, therefore they have not violated anything, and transmitting a violation would be wrong, in addition to the FCC issues already mentioned.

RetiredATC
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    This seems like a credible answer, and presuming it is correct, highlights that @Goulash would be advised to ensure that they and other members of their rocketry club have a complete understanding of rights and responsibilities regarding deconfliction with GA. Because presuming a TFR is in effect could very well be completely wrong! (although it sounds like they are playing it safe...) – Michael Hall Aug 23 '21 at 16:52
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    There are two high power rocket sanctioning bodies in the US: NAR (mentioned above) and Tripoli. Both organizations require that immediately prior to launch, the airspace is clear and will remain so during the launch/recovery. If you examine the airspace and see an aircraft coming, you don't launch. If an aircraft is loitering as mentioned by the OP, you wait until they are gone. – RetiredATC Aug 23 '21 at 23:57
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At least in the "jurisdiction" I'm somewhat familiar with, EASA and my country, licences are required for both the radio device and the operator of the radio. The training required for personal licence is not that hard, consisting of legal stuff, theory and learning the standard phraseology for radiotelephony. Once the personal licence is acquired, one can apply for a device licence and then puchase one, or use one already belonging (and licenced) by the organization.

I see no reason why your organization could not acquire licences and devices to monitor the airspace and communicate intentions and issue warnings to nearby aircraft. I'm actually quite surprised you do not have means of communication with other users of the airspace...

Caveat: your local laws and regulations may differ from mine, but generally I see a need to ensure flight safety by your organization being licenced for use of airband radios.

Jpe61
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    "licences are required for both the radio device and the operator of the radio" This is no longer required for pilots in the U.S. (though, of course, they still need to get a radio operator license if they intend to fly outside of the U.S.) Pilots can (and frequently do) purchase handheld airband radios from all sorts of stores (online and otherwise) with no license requirement. I'm not sure about the legality of this for non-pilots, but I'd be a bit surprised if it's illegal since student pilots don't actually require any sort of license until they're ready to solo. – reirab Aug 23 '21 at 04:24
  • You should make that an answer regarding U.S. – Jpe61 Aug 23 '21 at 05:09
  • Well, it doesn't technically answer the question, since I'm not actually sure (and don't have a source off-hand) about the requirements for non-pilots, which is what the question is asking about. I've followed the question, though, and if no one that already knows the answer answers it first, I'll look into it. – reirab Aug 23 '21 at 05:12
  • @reirab US pilots in US aircraft in US airspace are “licensed by rule”, meaning they don’t need an individual FCC license. Passengers (including students) can also use a radio under the supervision of someone licensed, including “by rule”. – StephenS Aug 24 '21 at 20:28
  • @StephenS Someone on the ground with an air-band radio, not in an aircraft, can't claim to be licensed by rule. – rclocher3 Aug 24 '21 at 21:40
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Speaking from my Canadian experience: You require a radio operator's license to transmit on frequencies used in aviation. Getting a license involves passing a knowledge test, after which the license is good for life. The required knowledge to pass the test would probably answer all of your questions. As I recall, it was a pretty easy test to pass. Among other things, you would learn how to structure your messages to make your communications concise and effective.

"Guard" frequency should be for emergencies only. I would imagine that no-one will object to a bystander using the guard frequency to alert search and rescue to a genuine emergency, licensed or not, but I'm not sure intrusion into a restricted area qualifies as an emergency. Anyway, pilots generally don't monitor the guard frequency as a matter of routine, so you should not expect an intruder to receive a warning issued over it. In many places there are enroute frequencies which pilots should be monitoring when not in controlled airspace or in an area where a specific frequency has been assigned. Your best bet would be to issue your warning on one of them. In Canada, those frequencies are 126.7 and 122.8.

FWIW, and again from my Canadian perspective, licensing is required to operate any radio transmitter in Canada, with certain exemptions, such as low power devices... at least that's the way it used to be.

Anthony X
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    " pilots generally don't monitor the guard frequency as a matter of routine" also there may well be NORDO traffic up there! – Dave Gremlin Aug 22 '21 at 14:29
  • Pilots do no require any radio operator license to transmit on aviation frequencies in the U.S. This hasn't been a requirement in the U.S. for decades (presumably because all of the relevant radio knowledge is already covered in pilot training, so it's rather redundant for pilots.) It's completely legal for pilots to purchase and transmit with either handheld aviation radios or ones built into aircraft with no radio operator license here. I'm not sure about the legal situation of this for non-pilots, though. – reirab Aug 23 '21 at 04:29
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    @reirab In Spain, licensed boat captains do not require a separate radio operator license to transmit on maritime frequencies either... because the captain license already allows them to do so. Maybe it is the same for US pilots? They do not require a radio op license because their pilot license "includes" one? – walen Aug 23 '21 at 07:44
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    @walen That's not the way it works in the United States. Pilots on board aircraft are allowed to transmit by virtue of the fact that they're on board aircraft, not by virtue of the fact that they have pilot's licenses. Getting a pilot's license doesn't grant any radio privileges. – Tanner Swett Aug 23 '21 at 08:42
  • @TerranSwett Nice to know, thanks. – walen Aug 23 '21 at 08:43
  • @reirab I am speaking from my Canadian experience from about 20 years ago. At that time, a pre-requisite for obtaining a private pilot's license was a radio operator's license, so a sub-set of pilot training included preparation for a radio operator license test, and the radio operator license was issued independent of a pilot's license. Although you can fly NORDO, it is considered more the exception than the rule, hence the radio license requirement. – Anthony X Aug 23 '21 at 14:46
  • @AnthonyX Yeah, that used to be the case in the U.S., but the radio operator license is no longer required for pilots here. We are allowed to transmit on the aviation bands without any radio operator license within the U.S. U.S. pilots only need a radio operator license if they're going to fly into other countries that still require it (which the vast majority of non-commercial U.S. pilots never do.) – reirab Aug 23 '21 at 15:55
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In response to this:

A further scenario that I am curious about ground use of the guard frequency would be in the case of witnessing a plane crash, if per chance you had an air band radio would it be appropriate to radio the location of the crash to any listening controllers/aircraft, or is this prohibited?

I am not a current pilot but I do hold several current FCC licenses and I am a current first responder. This is not legal advice but it comes from experience.

In the USA there are a great many laws that you may break in an emergency with impunity. The criterion is IDLH, Immediate Danger to Life and Health, and if it is such a situation, you may generally take any measures that you deem appropriate, as long as they do not cause more danger.

I have yet to witness any FCC regulation that prevents a reasonable and informative report of something like an airplane crash. This holds for any band. I have yet to witness anyone getting yelled at for making this sort of report, ever, anywhere. Understand that you may be asked to clear the channel after your report is received, but somewhere, someone will thank you for having made the report.

Use common sense. Don't call it in if you know it's already been called in. But also consider that very often dozens of people will drive past a flaming car wreck on the side of the road without calling it in.

If you get ordinary cell phone coverage where you are, you will probably get much better results by simply dialing 911. People in the aviation community tend to be strong communicators with lots of resources and emergency training, but we have a network of people who are even better at dealing with this exact situation. Many locations also have 311 service for less emergency-like situations. I have been forwarded from 311 to 911 in the past, they can do that, they are trained to know when they should and they will do so immediately if they should.

Stephan Samuel
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In the US, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) makes the laws and enforces them for radio communications, not the FAA. The laws are contained in 47 CFR § 87.

Section 87.18 says, "An aircraft station is licensed by rule and does not need an individual license issued by the FCC" (the sentence continues with information not relevant here). So people in an airplane don't need a license to talk on an air band radio. You however are not in an aircraft, so in order to use an air band radio, you would need an FCC license.

In order to get an license to use the FCC's "Aviation Services" (the legal use of radios on aviation bands in the US), you would need to know exactly what kind of station license you're applying for. There are many different types of stations, which are all specified in detail. See 47 CFR § 87.5 - Definitions. I counted about 25 different types of station. Here are some examples:

Aeronautical advisory station (unicom). An aeronautical station used for advisory and civil defense communications primarily with private aircraft stations.

Aeronautical enroute station. An aeronautical station which communicates with aircraft stations in flight status or with other aeronautical enroute stations.

Aeronautical multicom station. An aeronautical station used to provide communications to conduct the activities being performed by, or directed from, private aircraft.

Aeronautical search and rescue station. An aeronautical station for communication with aircraft and other aeronautical search and rescue stations pertaining to search and rescue activities with aircraft.

The way to apply for any of the Aviation Services licenses (besides the basic aircraft station license for which no license is required) is to register with the FCC's Universal Licensing System (ULS), and then file a license application electronically there, which will be the equivalent of the old Form 601.

If you were to witness a plane crash, your radio on the ground may have a difficult time talking to another station on the ground, because of obstacles between the two antennas. Air traffic controllers might not welcome kibitzing "civilians" who aren't familiar with their procedures on their frequency. Calling 911 (emergency services) on the phone would probably be more appropriate.

rclocher3
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