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As someone from a culture in which the first name comes last and the last name comes first, it was always difficult for me to figure out how to correctly specify my name in an email.

For example, say my name is 'Xu Gildong', where Xu is my family name and Gildong is my first name. If I sign my email like this:

Sincerely

Xu Gildong

then the recipient would address me as "Mr. Gildong" in his/her reply. This brings an awkward situation where I may have to correct the sender that Xu is my correct surname.

An alternative is to sign my name according to the Western1 order, like:

Sincerely

Gildong Xu

but one cannot help but desire to sign their name in its correct order.

Is there any clever way I can (perhaps implicitly) state the fact that the surname comes first in my signature?

1Forgive my generalization for the sake of simplicity. That statement is not necessarily correct since Hungarian names also follow the 'Eastern order' of names.

I found a highly relevant question. The answers are very thoughtful, yet they do not solve the problem completely to me for the following reasons.

Solution 1: adding 'Please call me [my first name]' in a message.

Of course, this is the most direct approach to my problem. However, I am worried that this solution is not applicable to every situation, especially where the email exchange is in a very formal setting.

Solution 2: Use capital letters for my surname.

Indeed, signing 'XU Gildong' would help other people recognize that my last name is XU. I have tried this, but people seemed to believe that the two-consecutive-capitals were just a typo, not a way to specify my last name.

(User edit: OP specified that their last name was only 2 letters long, so I chose an Asian 2-letter-long last name to make the problem easier to understand; the question read fairly awkwardly and I think a lot of answers were missing a large part of the problem because of this)

TankorSmash
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JustOneCupOfCoffee
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    Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. – Kilisi May 30 '22 at 03:12
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    For reference, I personally would not understand that all-caps'ing HONG would imply that to be used as a last name / pronounced after the other one. I would just think it was odd and move on. D: – schizoid04 May 30 '22 at 09:21
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    This is such a great question. By the way, I for one would not have known that Solution 2 of capitalizing the name that appeared first was meant to indicate that it was the surname. – Ryan May 30 '22 at 12:10
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    Instead of using the terms "first name" and "last name", you should use "given name" and "family name". – Chris Melville May 30 '22 at 12:59
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    @Ryan it's a widely used convention with international correspondence. Although Westerners don't use it. Mostly used if the last name comes first so... KONG Fui..... but.... John Smith.... wouldn't need to make the distinction – Kilisi May 30 '22 at 18:40
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    @Kilisi I've been working with international coworkers for 20+ years and I've never seen a full caps last name. It may be used by some people, but its not as widespread as you think. – Gabe Sechan May 31 '22 at 03:13
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    @GabeSechan perhaps industry difference? Or which company is in charge. I work with a lot out of Hong Kong, Singapore, SE Asia, they all do it. If it's European or Western dominated then that would be different I guess. Or perhaps you just haven't noticed it? – Kilisi May 31 '22 at 04:37
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    Quite possibly industry difference. I'm not saying that he can't try that, it won't harm anything. I just think the vast majority of people won't recognize it, so it won't really be a solution very often. – Gabe Sechan May 31 '22 at 04:48
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    that is why I think this shdnt be called 'first name' - 'last name', but one shd say 'family name' - 'given name' – lalala May 31 '22 at 06:26
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    To add to your footnote 1: In German, the predominant order is Givenname Familyname, but regionally, Familyname Givenname is used as well (and possibly even with genitive when referring to people "Miller's John said...". Though in business emails, standard German Given Family would be used. (And there's the official "Givenname, Familyname", though this would be a more "administrative" register of language than I'd use for a (business) email). AFAIK, both orders are possible also in Italian. – cbeleites unhappy with SX May 31 '22 at 09:32
  • I don't think there is a good solution to this. As you can see, my name is a typical western-type name, and yet I regularly receive email replies beginning "Dear Richard, ...". – Adam J Richardson May 31 '22 at 11:05
  • @GabeSechan: The use of an allcaps surname is common in things like lists of participants in international competitions; anyone who has watched a broadcast of the Olympics has probably seen this convention in use, whether or not they noticed it. I don't think it's a common convention other than in lists of individuals, however. – supercat May 31 '22 at 14:44
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    Could the question title be reworded? As it is now (“How should I say my last name comes first?”) it asks a logical impossibility, a contradiction in terms! (A last name comes last, by definition — if it came first, it would necessarily be a first name.) I think other posts have established that this question is really asking about the ordering of surname/family name and given name (for readers from a culture where the given name goes first). – gidds May 31 '22 at 18:34
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    I was also unaware of what an all-caps surname meant until recently. I'd seen people use it (mainly French colleagues) but I never knew why until I finally Googled it one day. – Nate Barbettini May 31 '22 at 21:24
  • @gidds I am well aware of the awkward wording. :) The title (which was originally 'How to say my last name comes first?') and the similarly written first sentence was a tool to catch readers' attention. With 14k views and 17 answers I believe that this goal has been well achieved, and that it is time to choose the best solution (in my opinion, of course.) – JustOneCupOfCoffee May 31 '22 at 23:23
  • @GabeSechan when you say the 'Vast Majority' you're discounting a couple of billion people at least .... I'm sure the vast majority in your locale might apply, but not internationally. – Kilisi Jun 01 '22 at 01:35
  • @Kilisi Seeing as how multiple people on this thread are telling you they've never heard of it, and the comments saying they've never heard of it have more upvotes, on a site geared towards professionals- I think its safe to say that the percentage of people who understand it will be a vast minority. Its fine to try, but he will frequently be forced to explain anyway. – Gabe Sechan Jun 01 '22 at 02:10
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    @GabeSechan on an English language site geared towards western professionals you mean? Thats a pretty ethnocentric window to extrapolate the whole World of professionals from – Kilisi Jun 01 '22 at 03:49
  • @Kilisi Given the audience he has a problem with he wants to address is western professionals, that seems perfect. Even if it is more widely known in Asia (which it may be, but even then since I've never seen anyone using it, nor has most of the audience here, I don't think its anywhere near as widely used as you think it is. And yes, I just did a spot check of several dozen emails from Asian associates, none of them use it), that barely matters as that's not the people he's addressing that cause the misunderstanding. – Gabe Sechan Jun 01 '22 at 05:08
  • @GabeSechan we can disagree, not much point arguing longer. Obviously we have different experiences – Kilisi Jun 01 '22 at 05:37

17 Answers17

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Just one more suggestion I don’t see mentioned. Sign your email with the name you’d like people to call you and put your full name below.

Best wishes,
Mr. Hong
———-
Hong Gildong
Director of Cultural Affairs
Hong Industries

AffableAmbler
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    I like this because it aligns with the very common convention of signing an email in the way you'd like the recipients to address you. (In particular, if you sign an email with your given name, it's a signal that the recipients may address you by that name.) – David Z May 29 '22 at 22:09
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    For a good example of this in action, if someone said "Kind Regards, Jay" when their signature said "Jason Smith", I'd probably start my response with "Hi Jay" rather than "Mr Smith". – Ruadhan2300 May 30 '22 at 07:01
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    "Sign your email with the name you’d like people to call you" <- In many cultures, the name you call yourself in a signature is not the name people should call you. Using the former for the latter may come off as conceited or self-flattering. – einpoklum May 30 '22 at 08:42
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    @GregoryCurrie: I'm sure you're misreading. I've had this problem from the other side, i.e. I wanted to be told which names goes first, but my interlocutor did not tell me / remind me, and it can get awkward. – einpoklum May 30 '22 at 08:55
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    @einpoklum The question is the OP wanting to write their own name in their native order, when it is not the local custom. – Gregory Currie May 30 '22 at 08:58
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    @Currie Gregory What? It is hardly "conceited" to want people to say your name correctly. – Martin Smith May 30 '22 at 11:27
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    In some cultures/contexts/professions, particularly when status/position is asymmetric, one signs "Gonzalez", or even simply "Roberto", but it is expected to address such person as "Dr. Gonzalez", while asking to be called that would be utterly un-humble/immodest. So, YMMV. :-) – Pablo H May 30 '22 at 13:29
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    I'm not a fan of signing my own emails with "Mr. <my_name>". That feels weird to me. – Ertai87 May 30 '22 at 15:55
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    @GregoryCurrie What local customs? OP doesn't say they live in the West. They could very well be living in (e.g.) China and emailing colleagues in America. – Azor Ahai -him- May 30 '22 at 17:16
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    @Ertai87 Agreed, I'd go so far as to say it's incorrect. You're not addressing yourself in your own signature. – OJFord May 31 '22 at 11:46
  • @Ertai87 I'd never ever sign anything this way. I'm baffled by the upvotes. – xehpuk May 31 '22 at 11:48
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    It often is customary to use the formality/informality of the signature as an invitation for someone to refer to you that way (e.g. signing an email "Sincerely, Joe" would often suggest the other party could respond "Dear Joe" instead of "Dear Joseph Jones" or "Dear Doctor Jones". However, it's not customary (in many places at least) to use prenominal honorifics in your own signature although postnominals are permitted; e.g a doctor wouldn't usually sign as "Dr. John Smith" but "John Smith, M.D." (at least when more formal) – eques May 31 '22 at 14:00
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    The debate over whether it's immodest is completely irrelevant. The original question is specifically about how to invite others to use a specific address. If inviting that is immodest, that's an issue with the question, not the proposed answer. IMHO – Darren Ringer May 31 '22 at 18:02
  • I like this more than the accepted answer because it gives the gender of the writer, a common point of confusion in cross-cultural communication. – FvD Jun 01 '22 at 00:46
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The shortest email footer or closing which could help, if the common case you find is people writing back to "mister FirstName", might be this:

...<message>...
Thank you,
  Hong Gildong
  ("Mr. Hong")

People used to assembling "Mr." to what they assume are last names will (if they read this line) likely figure out what you want quickly, and it should not come across as rude at all.

Some people may still think Hong is your first name and you wish to be called "Mister FirstName", but even in that case they'll be getting it right if they use your example, they'll likely know they should not be using "Mister Gildong", and if/when they ask about your name, the explanation should be quicker and simpler.

X Goodrich
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    Also has a good side effect of declaring your title, which may be difficult for the other party to guess. – Gregory Currie May 29 '22 at 11:47
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    This device is sufficient for people who are actually aware of cultural differences in name order. But for those who aren't aware, and many won't be, it is not only going to be confusing, but has the potential to seem ridiculous, as if signing off as "James Bond ("Mr James")". – Steve May 29 '22 at 12:04
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    @Steve people generally worry more about causing offence than whether a requested name seemed "ridiculous". If you put ("Mr James") at the end of your email, I'm happy to call you Mr James. It doesn't matter that I'm used to seeing a last name after a title, I understand what you want me to call you, and I'm reassured that I won't accidentally cause offence. This goes double if I don't know a lot about your culture. – Clumsy cat May 29 '22 at 12:48
  • @Clumsycat, that begs the question. The uninformed person wouldn't have worried about causing offence - he'd have just called you Mr Bond, because Bond is the name stated last. If a writer knowingly intends to flout Western name order to a Western reader, and isn't just trying to create difficulty, then their first task is to explain to many readers that a different order even exists. – Steve May 29 '22 at 13:38
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    @Steve why do we need an explanation on name order? Short of buying you an aeroplane ticket it likely doesn't matter. All I need is the correct way to refer to you. "Mr James" is actually more useful than an explanation of name ordering, you have given me your honorific and preferred name, – Clumsy cat May 29 '22 at 14:16
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    @Clumsycat, because if you don't explain it, most English speakers simply won't understand what you're on about. These days they might even think "call me Mr James" is some sort of clumsy foreign way of declaring gender, and they'll then proceed to call you James. – Steve May 29 '22 at 15:00
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    @Steve I disagree, it's perfectly clear that "Mr James" after an email signature is there to tell me that's how they want to be addressed. That's where people normally indicate how they would like to be addressed, so it's also implied that we are not familiar enough to drop the honorific. – Clumsy cat May 29 '22 at 15:11
  • Let us continue this discussion in chat. – Steve May 29 '22 at 15:12
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    This risks giving the impression that you're pompously insisting that you be referred to as "Mr. Hong" as opposed to "Gildong", rather than just indicating which is your family name. – Ray May 29 '22 at 17:57
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As a Hungarian whose language also suffers from the same problem, the convention is that we sign in the order of the language the email is written. Not only is this reasonable, but it's the least confusing way. I reccommend you to do the same.

So if I write an email in Hungarian, I sign it as

... [Hungarian text]

Köszönöm,

Nagy Gergely

But if I write it in English (or any western-ordered language), then

... [English text]

Thanks,

Gergely Nagy

Kind of along the "in Rome, behave like Romans" philosophy. Any other option would be confusing, and would involve the need for a clumsy explanation (either in the email or the signature) that only adds to the clutter, and isn't related to the topic of the email at all.

Don't make a big deal of it unless explicitly needed (like in an application).

Neinstein
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    As German, I accept my name in both orders (though Beleites Claudia has a decidedly southern/Bavarian feel). But when I write a business email in English (and in particular to North Americans), the signature will be "Claudia" (given name) whereas in German, the signature will often be "C. Beleites" or "Claudia Beleites" since business communication often calls for a more formal language register in German that doesn't go with with Firstname (often even if in oral communication I'm on first name terms with the recipient). To me, it's one of the things that get translated. – cbeleites unhappy with SX May 31 '22 at 10:18
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    To the OP, @JustOneCupOfCoffee, I think you are a Chinese based on the example in the question. I am a Chinese, too. I had been in the US for over 30 years. I always do the way this answer suggests. – Nobody May 31 '22 at 14:20
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    I'm baffled I had to scroll down so much before finding this answer. It isn't bigotry to expect people communicating in a specific language to follow the norms of the culture behind that language in order to avoid confusion. The simplest and most accurate answer is to sign given name first, then family name as those are the first and last names when communicating in English. If you really want a compromise, sign in your native language first, then in parentheses sign in English with the proper order in each respective language. Seems awkward from Hungarian, but not as much from Chinese. – V. Sim May 31 '22 at 21:30
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    It's worth noting that Chinese is a bit different from Hungarian in that people are regularly addressed with their full name, especially if both the given name and family name is single-syllable. Reversing the order may feel more awkward to Chinese people than to Hungarians (who are very used to doing precisely what you describe here). – Szabolcs May 31 '22 at 21:46
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Use a comma:

Yours Sincerely,
 Bond, James

The comma typically implies that the first name is the surname.

PS. Having said that, I would only do this in such 'placeholder' situations (i.e. in letters and forms), not in the middle of a spoken sentence. I.e. I wouldn't say "my names is Bond, James." as it feels unnatural (which is why James Bond always goes "Bond, James Bond").

Tasos Papastylianou
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  • Combining this with an uppercase family name, like "XU, Gildong" will maximize the chance of people getting it right without adding explicit instructions. But I fear that if a family-name-first construct appears anywhere eventually someone will use it as a given name. – Josh Rumbut May 31 '22 at 12:50
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    How does this not have more upvotes??? I was about to write the same answer but decided to trudge through all 17 answers. The issue at hand is an English punctuation issue more so than a cultural issue. – MonkeyZeus May 31 '22 at 13:47
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    @Josh Rambut The uppercase thing might work for known names (BOND, James), but for short and/or foreign names, it might be still confusing (see the top comment under the question). In a letter, I personally would confuse the "XU" with a work title/position. I mean like "Yours Sincerely, CEO, James Bond". – akwky May 31 '22 at 14:48
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If for whatever reason you aren't willing to adopt Western name order, and if you are writing emails, I would suggest putting an explanatory note in the signature.

For example:

Regards,
Neumann Janos
(Janos is my first name, see Hungarian names)

I can't see any other way the problem would be tackled.

Steve
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    You wouldn’t adopt a western name order, because it is just wrong. And asking someone to change the way their name is written is utterly rude. – gnasher729 May 29 '22 at 13:48
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    @gnasher729, I don't think it's unreasonable at all if corresponding in English, which is a language foreign to the writer in this case. Either way, you can't just say things in whatever order you want and expect to be understood - cross-cultural differences would have to be addressed explicitly and negotiated. In English, personal name comes first in order, surname comes last in order. Otherwise what next, "man bites dog" really means "dog bites man"? – Steve May 29 '22 at 14:44
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    @Steve It is conventional in English prose (such as articles and letter writing) to respect the conventions of the subject when writing their full name, regardless of any differences from English's " " order. Of course, individuals are free to ask that you do things differently, e.g. Nintendo of America has a company-wide policy of putting the given name of Japanese Nintendo employees first (as in Shigeru Miyamoto, Satoru Iwata, Shuntaro Furukawa), despite that not agreeing with Japanese convention, which is otherwise respected in English (as in Katsushika Hokusai). – Jivan Pal May 29 '22 at 16:36
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    @JivanPal, I'd say the convention in English is very much first name first. You're actually referring to a small number of exceptions conducted by informed professionals or journalists (who write public articles or letters), rather than being familiar to native English speakers in general. – Steve May 29 '22 at 17:40
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    My partner, also Hungarian, gave up decades ago trying to put her name the native way round. She just uses English convention. 'When in Rome...' – Tetsujin May 29 '22 at 18:21
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    @gnasher729: "because it is just wrong" - that very much depends on how you interpret writing a name. Do you write "a full name" as an atomic thing? Or do you write two separate things, "a given name" and "a surname", in a (w.l.o.g.) English sentence fragment? I suppose it depends on your personal perception which one of these seems right to you. – O. R. Mapper May 29 '22 at 23:45
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    @gnasher729 First, there are plenty of Japanese people who prefer to use given-name – family name order in certain contexts; I'm sure they would not appreciate you telling them the way they choose to write their own name is "just wrong." Second, we regularly force westerners to change their name order: look at any passport or in any phone book for examples of forced FN – GN order. That's just the nature of multi-cultural situations; to reduce confusion you sometimes have to live with what you think is a silly or even "just wrong" way of writing names, dates, or other things. – cjs May 30 '22 at 07:35
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    @cjs - In Japan it is convention to use Western order when writing in Romanji. Add to that the common practise of being given a Western first name by colleagues in an International environment & you arrive at Bob Sato, Jeff Suzuki etc. For similar if opposite reasons my name is Tetsujin Nijuhachiko [& has been for 30 years]. It is the name by which I am commonly addressed by my Japanese friends. – Tetsujin May 30 '22 at 07:41
  • @Tetsujin "In Japan it is convention to use Western order when writing in Romaji." — Interesting, I was not aware of this. Apparently the Japanese government wishes to revert the practise: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-japan-names/family-comes-first-japan-to-switch-order-of-names-in-victory-for-tradition-idUSKCN1VR1LE – Jivan Pal May 30 '22 at 09:12
  • @Jivan - of course, I'm no expert on this, nor would I have any voice in its changing, but I would assume all my friends, who seem to have been perfectly happy with this practice for decades, will not be likely to change any time soon. It may take a generational change for it to become common. – Tetsujin May 30 '22 at 11:06
  • @Tetsujin Well, all I can say is that in my twenty years in Japan, I've not noticed writing names in romaji in western order to be predominant. It's common, especially when communicating in English, but even in that situation I frequently see the From: line in an e-mail written as "TANAKA Taro." And I've met very few Japanese who use a western nickname even among westerners. Just out of curiosity, how long have you been living in Japan? – cjs May 30 '22 at 14:30
  • @cjs - I never lived there, but I was there from 2-4 months a year for a decade, back in the 90s. Worked for Yamaha [instruments not bikes] in Hamamatsu. – Tetsujin May 30 '22 at 14:44
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    Typically I would say it's most professional to use the traditional name order in whatever language you're conversing in. When I speak English, I use [given name][last name]. When I speak in Chinese (not uncommon, my wife is Chinese and I have a Chinese language-related business) - I use Chinese order ([last name][given name]) for my chosen Chinese name. – Joe Smentz May 30 '22 at 17:07
  • Just to mess things about: I've also seen Lastname, Firstname. I'm with @Tetsujin - just go with the flow – bytepusher May 31 '22 at 15:36
  • The problem with always using Western name order is that it assumes there is always a given name and a family name. Many people in many cultures do not have a family name. Of course, you could try to simplify and say "Just put the name you want to be called first", but that won't work in every situation either, as some cultures have a name they use with close friends/family and a name they use in formal settings. Which should go first? No, there's a reason why the modern convention is to represent a name as it is represented in home culture. It's the only way to fairly represent every name. – called2voyage May 31 '22 at 20:08
  • @called2voyage In that case you would only include the name you want to be used, most likely the formal one as a close friend would no the correct terminology. – Questor May 12 '23 at 22:20
19

Could you not just actually write that in an email footer that's automatically applied to every email you send (or emails you choose to attach it to)? That seems to me like it would be both clear and polite; no need to try to imply it. You can just tell people. By making it an obviously standard email footer, you're also not telling any one specific person, so nobody feels like they're being corrected specifically.

Something that would look like (with substituted correct terms in the angle-bracket parts):

Sincerely

Hong Gildong

"Hong" is my <family name / surname>, and Gildong is my < given > name. In < culture >, names are written with the <family name / surname> leading.

Moschops
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    There are three consecutive answers that suggest clarifying the matter in the automated email signature. Yet, the first one (this one), got very few upvotes. Could someone explain why they upvoted either succeeding two but not this one? Sometimes, the upvoting really confuses me. – Michael McFarlane May 29 '22 at 18:24
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    @MichaelMcFarlane One of the others got upvoted first (by chance, or slight preference in how the idea was presented). From that point forward, it was nearer the top of the list, and thus more likely to be read (and voted on) first. And some people stop reading before reaching this one, so the rich get richer. – Ray May 29 '22 at 18:42
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    There are still people reading automated email signatures? I stopped paying attention to them 20+ years ago. – Abigail May 29 '22 at 20:32
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    It's unfortunate that the default sort order is most-votes-first so that it only takes one person's vote to bump another answer above this one and then everyone else just piles onto it since it's the one they see first. – Martin Kealey May 29 '22 at 23:09
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    Both this answer and this answer convey the proper intent without explanation. It also assumes something about your intended audience that you feel compelled to explain to them (eg: no foreigners understand my culture) which could create a negative bias. If you've watched some British shows, you often see superiors calling subordinates by their last name. I don't know if that's still a common practice but is not a North American practice. – Ian W May 30 '22 at 00:06
  • While I think it might help, there's the problem that footers have become so common place and usually contain useless information, that a lot of people just won't read them anymore. If I were to receive such an email, I'd stop reading at "Sincerely." I wouldn't see the footer and when responding would quickly glance at the name it's signed off with to figure out how to address the person (so I'd address them as "Hong" or "Mr. Gildong"). – Dnomyar96 May 31 '22 at 06:20
17

Companies that are serious about collecting/knowing the names of their customers and addressing them properly in correspondence have already encountered this problem and established a best practice: Rather than to assume English convention that the first name is the given name and the last name is the family name (if family names are even used; see e.g. Icelandic names), and thus ask for first name, last name, and any middle names, the accepted way of handling this question in forms (such as when users sign up to use a website and must provide their name) is to simply ask for full name and preferred name of address, regardless of whether the preferred name is even part of the full name. For example, Hank Green of the Vlogbrothers, if signing up to a service that required his full legal name, would specify full name as "William Henry Green" and preferred name as "Hank".

As such, I would effectively carry this practice over to email/letter writing and provide the same two pieces of information in your valediction, in whatever format you please, e.g.

Sincerely,
Hong Gildong
(Preferred/given name: Gildong)

Jivan Pal
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    So far I believe this is the best solution. Indeed, adding "Please call me X" in the signature also achieves the desired effect, however then the question of what is my actual last name still remains. This answer provides such information with similar word count. Although I was looking for more implicit way of stating my last name, as Steve remarked above perhaps there is no way around other than explicit statements. I will wait for potential further discussion on your answer and accept this answer if I am assured that this is the best strategy for everyone in a similar situation. – JustOneCupOfCoffee May 30 '22 at 00:17
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    @JustOneCupOfCoffee Why not just rephrase "Please call me X" as "Please call me by my given name: X"? Or if you prefer the opposite: "Please call me by my family name: Y" – Will May 30 '22 at 04:20
  • @Will You are right! It seems that the only difference between the Jivan Pal's and yours is whether the essentialy same statement is put in a full sentence or not. Both solution should have the same effect. – JustOneCupOfCoffee May 30 '22 at 05:34
  • I agree, phrase it however you wish, as long as it's clear why/what you're specifying. Personally, I prefer email signatures to be succinct :-) – Jivan Pal May 30 '22 at 09:05
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    Signing with "Preferred name: Gildong" only works if Gildong is the preferred name. I have many Chinese friends who prefer not to be called by their first name, except by close family and very close friends. – Stef May 30 '22 at 09:46
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    I just accepted this answer -- it should be noted that not only him but also many others suggested similar solutions of leaving some explanatory remarks in the automatic email signature. Each answer included different variations of explanations but I am sure the readers would be able to come up with what fits to their needs, as I did, after browsing all the materials here. The reason for accepting this answer was that I liked his argument of this being the best practice considering what already established businesses are doing, such assertion being debatable nevertheless. – JustOneCupOfCoffee May 31 '22 at 23:36
  • This isn't really very clear to me. As a dumb American, I am unsure what a "given name" is, vs. a family name, surname, whatever... I get them confused. (We call them first and last name). Reading this, I would probably use "Mr. Gildong," which from the question I can see is the wrong guess. Oops. Why should I have to figure this out? Just sign the letter with the name by which you'd like to be addressed, and I'll follow your lead naturally. – John Wu Jun 01 '22 at 06:54
  • @Stef, I'm not sure I understand your criticism here - if Hong Gildong prefers not to be called by his given name, he can sign off with "Preferred name: Mr. Hong", or perhaps with a Chinese honorific if that's what he'd like to be called, right? – ymbirtt Jun 01 '22 at 08:34
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    Probably worth noting for posterity that "Companies that are serious about ... addressing them properly" are familiar with this helpful list: Falsehoods Programmers Believe About Names on Kalzumeus – Theodore Jun 02 '22 at 13:49
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Just correct them if you feel the need. There is nothing wrong with that.

I would actually find it strange for anyone to address me as Mr. Lastname in an email. So I'm not sure what sort of people you're dealing with, most people are well aware of the Eastern name conventions.

But at the end of the day you give leeway to people who're not part of your culture and it makes no sense to make any drama about things like this.

Kilisi
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  • +1 "Just correct them" should also apply to mispronunciations, misspellings, missgendering and any other name related mistake. It's good to do it early though, people are less embarrassed if you corrected them first time they get it wrong rather than after getting it wrong all year. – Clumsy cat May 29 '22 at 12:59
  • Also, be prepared to keep correcting people. Generally others don't care as much about your name, title, pronouns, spelling, pronunciation, as you do. – Gregory Currie May 30 '22 at 08:53
  • I'd add that the phrasing can be simply "PS: my last name name is Y"; or "PS: my first name is X"; or "PS: my last name is Y, but you can call me X" at the end of the next mail. It's straightforward, it's factual, and you allow your speaker to correct themselves, and to switch to a less formal address if they want to. – AmiralPatate May 30 '22 at 09:13
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    "most people are well aware of the Eastern name conventions" Are most people aware of that? Maybe those that often work with Eastern cultures, but if people have never interacted with anyone that used such a name convention, I doubt they'd be aware. I personally never even gave it a second thought until I saw this question and I doubt anyone I work with would be aware of it. – Dnomyar96 May 31 '22 at 06:32
  • @Dnomyar96 I don't know your locale, but people in some locales certainly don't seem to know much about the outside World. Eastern naming conventions cover a huge swathe of the World. – Kilisi May 31 '22 at 09:22
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I strongly agree with AffableAmber's answer but would like to add one additional note: I'm going to make the maybe somewhat controversial claim that in an American workplace environment,

Sincerely,

Hong Gildong

Is almost always the wrong way to sign your email.

It is usually the case in American workplaces that people address each other by first names, but this is not always true. Depending on the environment, profession, and nature of your relationship, a title and family name may be the more appropriate form of address. Unfortunately, this means that what is correct can be hard to know, and as such you should always sign your email in the way you would like to be addressed by the recipient of the email.

This means that you should be choosing between one of "Gildong," "Mr. Hong," "Dr. Hong," etc. Which one you choose might depend on the person you are sending the email to - that is normal and expected. It would be unusual for anyone to address you by your full name, and so you should not sign your email with it either.

If you would still like to include your full name in the email somewhere (which is totally reasonable) you can include it in the full signature at the end as AffableAmber suggested, ideally also including your title and pronouns (if appropriate for your culture).

DreamConspiracy
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Perhaps:

Sincerely,

Gildong

(Hong Gildong)

Though I note that a similar answer was already suggested in the previous question that you reference, so I'm not sure if you've already considered that approach and found it lacking.

GB supports the mod strike
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When you know your correspondent pretty well, you can use your preferred order, which feels natural to you. However, when you are writing to a new acquaintance, in English, it is advisable to follow the standard format used in English-speaking countries. If your email to the new acquaintance calls too much attention to an unusual way of formatting a name, that could detract from the actual content of the email.

aparente001
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    If the reader knows that first- and lastname are in different order in culture of the writer of the email then he/she might assume that the traditional order is used and use the names in the wrong way. – daniel.heydebreck May 29 '22 at 10:18
  • @daniel.heydebreck - Right, this approach is not 100% foolproof, but if the person is that enlightened, then they will hopefully understand and forgive the author having taken the standard-in-English approach. – aparente001 May 29 '22 at 21:40
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    @aparente001 This is basically the two generals problem. If both sides attempt to accommodate each other cultural expectations, or assume the other will, it's basically a 50/50 chance that there will be a misunderstanding. – Gregory Currie May 30 '22 at 08:59
  • @GregoryCurrie - I would hope that those that are aware of this potential will watch for it, check for mutual understanding, and forgive when a misunderstanding has occurred. – aparente001 May 30 '22 at 21:19
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Indeed, signing 'HONG Gildong' would help recognize other people that my last name is HONG

Capitalizing the last name is the norm in France and, as weird as it may look the first time, it helps immensely. We have plenty of people called Pierre Paul and it would be up to the reader to guess which one is the first and last name. Pierre PAUL solves the issue.

I made an answer instead of comment because of the order of your example (HONG Gildong).

At least in Europe, it is more common first to list the first name, and then the last name. If you are writing for this population, it would be helpful to sign as Gildong HONG instead.

Not only does it keep the natural sequencing, but people will expect the last name (even an exotic one, from the perspective) in the second bit. This hold for two letters surnames: Gildong ZU would not be surprising.

WoJ
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  • I agree that capitalising the family name is the norm. However: I disagree with "At least in Europe, it is more common first to list the first name, and then the last name." In France, on letters, family names are more often listed before first names. On forms, family names are more often listed before first names. On lists, such as a list of employees or a list of students, family names are more often listed before first names. – Stef May 30 '22 at 09:52
  • I'd also add that there are quite a number of Asian immigrants and people with Asian names. Personally I'd be more confused if someone with a Chinese name listed their family name second than if they listed it first. – Stef May 30 '22 at 09:54
  • @Stef: I agree with the official documents, but OP question was about signing their letters. I do not know anyone who would sign/introduce themselves as "Bonjour, Dupont Jean (shaking hands)" – WoJ May 30 '22 at 10:00
  • @Stef: about Asian immigrants - they all sign first last. This is the norm with the generation that starts to take French first names. You probably have much more contacts with Asians than the statistical population who would not expect an Asian name to be different from our, in terms of expected order. – WoJ May 30 '22 at 10:04
  • This is an incredibly France-focused answer. As a non-French person who started working a couple of years ago for a French company all the automated systems are set up to capitalize names like this. Due to this system France is also happy to put the last name very often in front of the first name in many lists, thus you get the situation where as a non-French person I mistook first and last names of non-team members for the first couple of months. Plus it makes it hard to know how to spell names (e.g. colleague's last name is MCFADDEN, still don't know whether that's McFadden or Mcfadden). – David Mulder May 31 '22 at 04:55
  • @DavidMulder: it is an incredibly French-centered answer because I am French and clearly indicate that in my answer. – WoJ May 31 '22 at 09:09
  • I agree with this answer, being French too. However even here some people fail to get a clue: my family name is an extremely common female first name, and though I always write it all-caps in my emails, one person still called me by my last name as if it were my first (and that time, I got to experience first-hand the unpleasantness of being misgendered...) – joH1 May 31 '22 at 11:12
  • I have seen this convention used in Japan too. And it is increasingly important to note the convention, since Japan now officially orders family names first even in English. Previously, the order was converted during translation. (Get used to flipping the order of some names you know. Example: ONO Yoko.) – Mentalist May 31 '22 at 12:26
  • I agree with this answer even being non-French, it's exactly what I was going to suggest until I saw it here already. This is absolutely not the norm in the UK, but it's familiar to us, most would understand it. At a company of any size OP would no doubt have colleagues using it because it actually is the cultural norm for them anyway. I've never known anyone misunderstand it and shout someone's surname at them instead of saying their first name. – OJFord May 31 '22 at 14:54
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You could get inspiration from what is done in bibliographies of scientific papers where both variants are used depending on the journal/conference style.

Hong G.

or

G. Hong

In both cases, I believe everybody will understand that Hong is your last name.

Surb
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    I'm not sure "Hong G." would be completely clear. If there are two Davids in a team, it's not uncommon to see them referred to as "David R" and "David B" to disambiguate. – cloudfeet May 29 '22 at 10:41
  • @cloudfeet Well, OP asks about "specify my name in an email". Moreover, if the email comes from Hong Glidong, I think it will be pretty clear. Finally, in the situation you mention, there is a clear intention to mention only first name, which does not seem to be what OP is asking for. – Surb May 29 '22 at 10:57
  • Right - my point is that the person receiving the email doesn't know which situation they're in. They might think "Hong" is the first name, and you're formatting your name like Kenny G. – cloudfeet May 29 '22 at 11:04
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    No, I don't think "Hong G" will be widely understood at all. Westerners are likely to interpret it like "Bill G" (for Bill Gates). – Steve May 29 '22 at 11:36
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    If you write Gates B. I'm going to assume your first name is Gates, and your second name starts with B. – Gregory Currie May 29 '22 at 11:41
  • @Ray, obviously it must be because it is first. In English, first names come first. When the surname is stated first for administrative purposes, it is done like "Graham, C." – Steve May 29 '22 at 19:22
  • @Steve Oops; I misread Gregory's comment and thought he was saying the opposite of what he did. Comment removed. – Ray May 29 '22 at 20:25
  • @Ray Don't sweat it. I didn't explain what I was trying to say very well. It wasn't in conflict with what was said, I was just supporting what was being said. – Gregory Currie May 30 '22 at 08:44
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It's not uncommon for English-speaking people to use their second name as their given name. In this case their email signature would generally say something like

  • Name: P J Smith
  • Given name: John

This works equally well for the alternative naming convention

  • Name: Lee J
  • Given name: Jun-fan

It's not uncommon too for people in some cultures to adopt an English given name, in addition to their name in their own language. Stating a given name explicitly solves this too.

  • Name: Lee J
  • Given name: Bruce
Graham
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Let me comment on two things.

First, there are two different but related issues:

  • convey the structure of your full name; i.e., which part of your full name is your family name, and which is your given or "personal" name [and I think some names have other parts, such as "generational name", but I do not know much about that; some people can be referred to including the name of their father, but that's not really part of their name; and so on];
  • convey how you want/would like/expect to be addressed, in writing and/or when spoken to.

Adding a note/PS explaining the structure of your name solves the first issue (and I find it very useful) but does not solve the second issue. As noted in other answers, some cultures/contexts tend to use given name, others full name.

Lastly, in some cultures/contexts/professions, particularly when status/position is asymmetric, one signs "Gonzalez", or even simply "Roberto", but it is expected/customary to address such person as "Dr. Gonzalez", while asking to be called that would be utterly un-humble/immodest. So, YMMV. :-)

Update: Here are some links describing the wonderful world of possibilities in people names:

Also, if your name is natively written in hanzi/hanja/kanji, hangul, pinyin, etc., consider also adding it to convey that your name is "different from usual" and expectations may not be met.

Pablo H
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As other suggested I would add to my email client a preformatted signature or I woud use a mail template with a preformatted beginning like:

Hi, this is Gildong (Hong Gildong)

But apart from that if you find yourself in an awkward situation ignore it, don't try to correct all the persons you are in touch with. I worked in many places with workers from different nationalities and this confusing calls happened quite often, but they did no damage. For short term contacts it didn't matter if they called someone by name or surname. For long term contact sooner or later people will find out the correct name and surname. When it happened in our office we just laughed it off.

FluidCode
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    Hi, this is Bond (James Bond) – OJFord May 31 '22 at 11:48
  • @OJFord The "Hi" was meant to introduce an informal tone, thus the reader could assume that the beginning is the first name. As you show there is still room for misunderstanding, But making it misunderstanding proof would become awkward as well, I don't think it is worth the pain to try and correct every single little mistake. – FluidCode May 31 '22 at 11:55
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The problem causing the confusion is that your family name / given name are not in the usual order (where the given name is usually first and the family name comes last), with the added problem that people cannot look at the names and figure out which is family and which is given name.

Stop referring to "first name, last name". In your case, give your name in the way that is correct for you, and then tell people that your family name is "Hong".

Your company phone directory should list you under the letter H, together with everyone else whose family name starts with "H". I would address you formally as "Mr. Hong". If you were in the military, you would be addressed less politely as "Hong". If we were very familiar, I'd write "Hi Gildong, how was your weekend?".

But don't say "My first name is my last name". That's just confusing and doesn't make any sense. "My first name is my family name" makes sense.

gnasher729
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