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I am travelling by car in the USA (Massachusetts). Am I supposed to respect traffic signs that are upside down?

E.g. on this road, there have been an upside down 25 MPH speed limit for a while, I have no idea whether I am allowed ignore it:

enter image description here

hippietrail
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Franck Dernoncourt
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    Found you https://goo.gl/maps/OIN6i Looking East, that's definitely a suggestion to follow during the day. – PixnBits Jan 07 '15 at 23:50
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    I see a sign that says 52. Am I the only one? – Floris Jan 08 '15 at 04:50
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    @Floris I could see why that might be confusing since the numbers and letters on this upside down sign might look like "HdW 52". As the original post said, it is supposed to read "25 MPH". Those accustomed to seeing US signs would instantly recognize it as upside down. – Thunderforge Jan 08 '15 at 05:45
  • @Thunderforge I thought they were joking, as clearly this could happen anywhere - even outside the US - but it turns out they're just wrong; thanks for setting things straight. – bye Jan 08 '15 at 12:42
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    This is near a university, it was probably turned upside down by a drunk frat boy. – Ryan Jan 08 '15 at 21:15
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    I've recently seen a STOP sign crushed and leaning down touching grass. Should I follow it? – Roko C. Buljan Jan 08 '15 at 22:11

3 Answers3

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Yes, any sign posted in the US is intended to be followed unless it explicitly has an X over it or it is covered up. Most likely the top screw of this sign has come loose and no maintenance has been done to fix it. Typically signs that are meant to not be respected are covered with black plastic or a board so they aren't even legible.

However, yellow signs like the one in the picture are advisory and following them exactly is usually not obligatory.

Carl
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    The best (and most honest) one of these yellow advisory signs I've ever seen was on the Washington Beltway, where the advisory sign said 55 MPH (which is the road speed limit...) – Alan Munn Jan 07 '15 at 23:30
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    And they're still there! e.g. 39°00'42.46" N 77°03'51.50" W. – Alan Munn Jan 08 '15 at 00:58
  • @AlanMunn Are you sure it's not 65? – John Jan 08 '15 at 01:55
  • @John yes I lived in DC for 6 years. – Alan Munn Jan 08 '15 at 01:57
  • @AlanMunn I meant he mandatory speed limit – John Jan 08 '15 at 01:59
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    @John yes I know that's what you meant, and no it's not 65 it's 55. – Alan Munn Jan 08 '15 at 02:05
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    @John I still live in the DC area, drive on that stretch of road fairly regularly, and can confirm that the actual regulatory (white sign) speed limit is 55 there. – cpast Jan 08 '15 at 02:35
  • @AlanMunn Ok. I'll laugh – John Jan 08 '15 at 04:57
  • It's not all that uncommon to see advisory signs suggesting the posted speed limit, especially in the mountains. I assume that's for two reasons: one, the highway department is aware people speed (and so suggest for safety to slow down some!); and two, the posted speed limit may change from time to time. Having an advisory sign that shows the risky conditions and the safe speed limit is helpful in either case. – Joe Jan 08 '15 at 18:25
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    It seems plausible to me that the advisory sign is more effective for safety purposes, since people interpret it as actually being a safety concern rather than a revenue generator. – R.. GitHub STOP HELPING ICE Jan 08 '15 at 18:37
  • @R..: Generally if a road has a posted limit of e.g. 45mph, that means that it will be safe to travel 45mph even when visibility conditions are slightly less than ideal. Since the safe speed on a straight road is affected by visibility, then under perfect visibility conditions it would generally be safe to travel slightly faster. If safe speed on a curved-road speed is limited by curvature and banking, however, then even under perfect visibility conditions those same limitations would apply. – supercat Feb 19 '15 at 23:50
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That is definitely still a valid sign, although a lawyer could probably use the fact that the sign was damaged to avoid a related traffic ticket.

It's also a yellow warning sign, which means that the speed limit is still that which was posted on a white sign. You cannot be ticketed for going the speed limit, although the implication is that if you do hit a bicycle or a pedestrian in a crosswalk, you'll be more liable for negligence than if you had slowed down. Basically, if it's a time of day when foot traffic is high in the area, you probably shouldn't be doing 35. But if it's 4am and you're the only one on the road, you definitely don't have to slow down.

sig_seg_v
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    In urban areas, speed limit signs are typically advisory only -- speed limits apply whether there's a sign there or not. Local codes will generally spell out a blanket speed limit for the city with exceptions for designated streets, and drivers are expected to follow those speed limits whether there are signs or not. Someone I know tried to escape a speeding ticket (45 in a 25 zone) because there the sign was missing, but his defense was rejected because city speed limits apply whether or not they are posted. – Johnny Jan 07 '15 at 23:42
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    @Johnny Honest question: Is every driver supposed to research local speed limits of all cities one might pass through? – neo Jan 07 '15 at 23:48
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    Sometimes cities will have a sign as you enter the city limits stating the "default" speed limit. Failing that, assuming 25 MPH on residential streets is generally safe. –  Jan 08 '15 at 00:56
  • @Johnny -- you misunderstand here. It's not that the speed limit previously posted has gone away -- it simply is not altered, no matter how many yellow advisory speed plaques you decorate the road with. – UnrecognizedFallingObject Jan 08 '15 at 01:16
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    @UnrecognizedFallingObject - sorry I didn't mean that this yellow advisory sign had to be obeyed, but that absence of a sign (or an upside down sign) doesn't mean that it can be ignored, you still have to follow the speed limit even if it's not posted. Though if you ignore the yellow sign and drive too fast run off the road, you can expect "driving too fast for conditions" to be added to your ticket. – Johnny Jan 08 '15 at 02:10
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    @neo The limit is almost universally 25 or 30, so it's kind of a moot point. – LessPop_MoreFizz Jan 08 '15 at 04:01
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    @neo I guess the answer depends on the country you're in, but it's hard to see how you'd expect to get away with speeding anywhere with that defence. There's no difference between driving laws and any other laws in that regard. "What? You can't smoke a fat joint in the park? You can where I come from!" – bye Jan 08 '15 at 12:45
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    @Poldie Sure you have to abide by the law. However, in my experience in the US city and county limits are not always marked. Changing such rules without any indication whatsoever just seems not right for me. But of course that's a question that every society needs to answer for themselves. I'm not judging anyone on that matter. – neo Jan 08 '15 at 15:26
  • @neo: ignorance of the law excuses no one - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorantia_juris_non_excusat – NotMe Jan 08 '15 at 15:36
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    @ChrisLively I know that (however it differs between jurisdictions on how strong that concept is). But doesn't mean that legislative authorities should create laws which are hard to track down and follow. That helps nobody. But let's not get too offtopic here. – neo Jan 08 '15 at 15:51
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    "You cannot be ticketed for going the speed limit". Yes, you can. In California, you can be ticketed for going the posted speed limit if the weather conditions happen to make driving at that speed unsafe. – jamesdlin Jan 08 '15 at 16:13
  • In the UK you can break the rules by driving below the speed limit. – bye Jan 08 '15 at 17:06
  • Also in the UK, you're expected to know how fast you can go on certain road/situations without signs. (I was surprised at how many signs there were in the states; you just mentally switch off after a while). – bye Jan 08 '15 at 17:08
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    @Johnny What state was this in? Was the speed limit defined by the city or the state? – Random832 Jan 08 '15 at 20:29
  • California, I don't remember where he got the ticket, it was likely San Jose or San Francisco, could have been Santa Clara. – Johnny Jan 08 '15 at 21:38
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    AFAIK, in most states, the "default" speed for municipal zones (as well as other zones and areas, such as school zones) is set by the State and not by the municipal authority, thus relieving drivers of having to research every municipality seperately. – RBarryYoung Jan 08 '15 at 22:03
  • @Alex "In the UK you can break the rules by driving below the speed limit." I've no idea what you mean by this. You seem to be claiming that you must drive at exactly the speed limit in the UK. This is categorically untrue, and there are no minimum speeds on British roads. – David Richerby Jul 21 '16 at 08:59
  • @DavidRicherby There's no law against driving too slowly but if you do so (for example on the motorway) you run the risk of getting into trouble for dangerous driving. – bye Jul 21 '16 at 14:04
  • @Alex I agree that you can get into trouble for driving significantly too slowly for the conditions (obstructing the highway comes to mind; I'm not sure about dangerous driving). However, that's not just "driving below the speed limit". In particular, the speed limit on motorways is 70mph but trucks are limited to 56 so a car doing 60 is certainly not going to be stopped. – David Richerby Jul 21 '16 at 15:02
  • @DavidRicherby - absolutely; the only thing you can be stopped/fined for under those circumstances in the UK (in the absence of a minimum required speed being posted) is driving without due care and attention; it's a subjective judgement which must be made by a police officer on the spot and cameras don't count. It's to prevent someone driving so slowly they cause dangerously rash overtaking maneuvers by other drivers. As far as I know it's hardly ever actually enforced - the archetypal "pensioner doing 30mph on the A303 in August" generally just gets a talking-to. – Spratty May 04 '20 at 15:37
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The sign being upside-down is irrelevant, for reasons I'll describe.

USDOT has a standard for how everybody in the US should do street signs.

Your sign is yellow, and thus, advisory: Not enforceable per se. However, police have several options for writing you a ticket regardless.

  • Failure to yield to pedestrians (a pedestrian tries to step out, and you are driving too fast to bring your car to an orderly stop when they do).
  • Driving too fast for conditions (e.g. if conditions are ripe for the above to happen because people are milling around or heading toward the crossing).
  • Ditto, if you seem unable to stop in the distance you can see, noting the congestion, narrow lane, and poor sight lines.

Note that none of these above citations require the sign to even exist. Therefore, the sign being upside-down has no legal weight. The sign is just a reminder of something a competent driver should already observe.

This sort of thing is often done deliberately as a "traffic calming" tactic. If you drive aggressively to defeat "traffic calming", you'll anger the cops, because they were part of the planning/design process, and may have recommended it in the first place because they were sick of cleaning up accidents here.

Now, the most important signs - passive (unpowered) traffic controls - actually get special treatment.

They are coded with a totally unique shape not used by any other sign. You are obliged to recognize them by shape even if snow covered, vandalized, or tilted. Let's see if you can get them right.

enter image description here

Railroad crossing ahead

enter image description here Imported from Detroit.

You knew this one!
Intersection just beyond. STOP. Then look for cross traffic and yield to it.
Yeah, it could be green and say "GO!" Still means stop.

enter image description here

That railroad crossing we warned you about earlier, is here.
Watch out for the locomotive. Also, don't drive into the side of the train.

enter image description here

Intersection just beyond. Look for cross traffic and yield to it.

You notice that I was naughty. The first and fourth signs were rotated 60 degrees from normal. That doesn't matter.

Another unique is the oblong triangle pointing right, always on the wrong side of the road. It means "You've run out of passing lane, bud. Finish or abort your pass, right now." But it would not be mistaken for a yield.

Harper - Reinstate Monica
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