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Seeking the lens market AND the related info WRT Canon 1D X, I found some things which seems concerning:

1st, a note from Canon's Chuck Westerfall (see here) saying:

“AF is unavailable on the EOS-1D X if the maximum aperture reported to the camera through the electronic lens mount is smaller than f/5.6. This is a lower specification than previous EOS-1 series DSLRs. [...]"

On the article linked above, it is stated that no lens have f/8 but it can be reached by using teleconverters. Ok, so far, so good.

...But having in mind the above, this means that the new Canon 1D X cannot focus on the longer (telephoto) lenses which have an aperture smaller than f/5.6, say 6.3?

This includes (at least) the following lenses:

From Sigma:

  • 50-500mm F4-6.3 EX DG HSM
  • 150-500mm F5-6.3 APO DG OS HSM
  • 50-500mm F4.5-6.3 APO DG OS HSM
  • 28-300mm F3.5-6.3 DG Macro

From Tamron:

  • 28-300mm VC F/3.5-6.3 XR Di VC LD Aspherical [IF] MACRO
  • 28-300mm VC F/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical [IF] MACRO
  • SP 200-500mm F/5-6.3 Di LD [IF]

...so, by buying Canon 1D X and having at least one of the above lenses and raking out the glass, one cannot use the AF anymore?

jrista
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John Thomas
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  • :o I had assumed it would be as good with AF as the previous ones. Seems odd that it's not given the pricetag. I can only assume that they think that people who can afford this camera won't be having the relatively cheaper lenses with smaller apertures – Dreamager Nov 05 '11 at 16:17
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    Hmmm. I'm not sure I see a real question here. If you have one of those lenses, and it is important to you, and you can't replace it with something else, and you were planning to buy this top-of-the-line camera, you have a problem you need to resolve by changing one of those assumptions. That might be painful, but is not really in question. Otherwise, there is no issue, and again this would be a complaint but not really a question. – mattdm Nov 05 '11 at 16:30
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    Maybe a rewording to something like "Is AF a f8 useful for professionals or a gimick to make the specs better?" as I can't see many professionals having the slower lenses and it's more to lure people like me in who wish my 70-200 f4 L could auto focus if I got a 2x converter – Dreamager Nov 05 '11 at 16:43
  • If you can spend $6800 on a body, you are probably doing pretty well paying your bills by creating great photographs. If in such a position, I don't think I would buy budget lenses and risk my own income, it really doesn't make much sense. Would you use Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 on the 1DX? No, because the outcome would be close to what you get from a 600D. If I depend my living on photography I would buy a lens that match the quality of the camera. 1DX is the best camera in the line, I would get the best glass. – Gapton Nov 08 '11 at 14:21
  • Put it this way, if you bought the newest Ferrari. Would you be thinking about how good is the fuel consumption so you can save money on gas? No! – Gapton Nov 08 '11 at 14:26
  • Well, there are situations where one simply cannot change the lens. Either because of a fast action, either because of a corrosive environment. And if, perhaps, I can pay $6800 for a new camera, I cannot pay $2500 for Canon's 28-300mm only. Don't get me wrong: Yes, I'll pay for 28-70 L and other workhorses but for rather rare situations in which I cannot change lenses I don't think that it is worth $2500. Just imho. – John Thomas Nov 09 '11 at 09:14
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    Are there any questions/resources that would explain WHY they would do this? I've never heard of this. – Vian Esterhuizen Dec 09 '11 at 22:31
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    I think the real issue with this limitation on the 1D X is lenses combined with TC's. Take an f/4 telephoto lens and slap on a 2x TC, your screwed. A LOT of wildlife, sports, and race photographers (and probably air show photogs) tack on a TC or two extend their reach. Being able to center-point AF at f/8 is incredibly useful for that purpose, and losing that capability is really going to limit a LOT of people. The best backup options, say the 600mm and 800mm f/5.6 lenses, cost an arm, leg, kidney, and firstborn too, making owning an alternative difficult for many. – jrista Dec 10 '11 at 05:08
  • Granted, you can always rent a supertelephoto lens if you need to, however they tend to be big, bulky, and heavy. Smaller lenses with TC's is often a much lighter route to go as well. – jrista Dec 10 '11 at 05:13
  • This is an awfully subjective question. What is worth it to me is likely to be not worth it to someone else. Plus, we are talking about a $6000 camera body. That puts the whole discussion on another plane. – Pat Farrell Aug 26 '12 at 04:36
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    Canon recently released firmware v1.1.1 for the Canon 1D X. This firmware enables cross-type f/8 AF with the center point, including in AF Expansion mode, which also enables the surrounding four points (above/below, left/right) in either horizontal or vertical mode. That allows a total of 5 AF points to be involved in f/8 AF with the 1D X now. – jrista Oct 19 '12 at 15:27
  • I think the assumption by Canon was that they were preventing the use of extenders with lenses like the EF 70-200 f/4L in hopes of forcing customers to buy something like the EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6, as well as discouraging use of the type of lenses in the OP. What they discovered through feedback from some of their biggest customers is the extenders aren't being used instead of lenses like the EF 400 f/4, but rather with them. – Michael C Feb 07 '13 at 16:17
  • There has long been a discussion as to whether "aperture smaller than f/5.6" really means "aperture wider than f/8". The third party lenses with f/6.3 on the long end listed in the original question are known to work with the center focus point on the Rebel and x0D bodies, which are only rated to AF with lenses with a maximum aperture of f/5.6 or wider. It is possible they are reporting their aperture as f/5.6 or wider, as there appear to be separate fields for widest aperture and "set" aperture when the lens and body communicate. A holdover from pre-EOS when aperture was set on the lens ring? – Michael C Feb 07 '13 at 16:24
  • Seeing as the 1D X now does focus at f/8 with the latest firmware, I believe this question is now obsolete. As such, I am going to close it, and it may potentially be deleted in the future. – jrista May 03 '13 at 04:39

6 Answers6

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Sigma 28-300mm F3.5-6.3 DG Macro? You are going to get a $7,000 camera with that piece of glass? Or even any of those Tamron's. I highly doubt anyone in the market for the 1DX even has these in a backup kit.

How important is it? Not important at all.

dpollitt
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    I agree. The lenses listed here are consumer grade lenses, I can't imagine that Canon would even pause for concern about them. – Joanne C Nov 05 '11 at 17:32
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    Agree, most folks needing a camera in this class also use 400 f2.8, 500 f4, etc lenses. – cmason Nov 05 '11 at 23:32
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    I agree. Their backup kit would be like 5D Mark II or a Leica M9 etc and nothing from Tamron. – Gapton Nov 08 '11 at 14:24
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No non 1-series Canon DSLR advertises AF at f/8. However, it's not the case that AF wont work at f/8, just that just that f/8 is beyond the design parameters set out when the AF unit was designed, thus it's not guaranteed to work at this max aperture and Canon quite reasonably disable it to prevent any problems with AF performance biting them (and to help sell faster lesnes ;)

There's a well known trick whereby you tape the pins on your teleconverter to prevent it from reporting the true aperture of the lens+converter combo so that AF remains enabled. In a very similar way the lenses you listed simply lie to the camera so that AF remains enabled. And f/6.3 is not that much past f/5.6 so it works reasonably well.

All the lenses you list will AF at the long end on current Canon non-pro bodies so will work exactly the same on the 1Dx. Or to echo dpollitt's summary above:

How important is it? Not important at all.

dpollitt
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Matt Grum
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  • Canon apparently turned AF totally off on the 1D X via firmware if the lens didn't report an aperture of f/5.6 or wider. This was unlike the Rebels, x0D, 5D, and 7D line that would continue to hunt when the max aperture was narrower than the rated f/5.6. They heard from plenty of 1D mkIV and 1Ds mkIII users who were thinking about upgrading to either a Nikon D800 or D4 instead of the 1D X. Canon saw the light and issued a firmware update that enables AF to f/8. They also announced a similar firmware upgrade for the 5D mkIII due early in 2013. – Michael C Feb 07 '13 at 16:44
  • Canon discovered many of the buyers of their extenders were not, as they had assumed, using extenders instead of super telephoto lenses, but rather they were using them with them. This included some of their high profile users such as Art Wolfe and other top professionals in the sports and wildlife segments. – Michael C Feb 07 '13 at 16:50
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Combined with the fact that there's no more 1.3x crop factor as there was in previous generations of 1D, it will be a problem for some wildlife photographers shooting already with f/5.6 lenses or f/4 combined with teleconverters (e.g. any Canon lens longer than 400mm, or Sigma 300-800 f/5.6) - adding tele conversion to make up for the lost crop factor would push those lenses over f/5.6. They can either stay with 1DmkIV, use a third-party TC or downgrade to 7D which would give a little tighter angle of view, albeit with worse low-light abilities. If they were shooting f/4 with 2xTC or f/5.6 with any TC, 7D would only help them if they reduce/lose the TC.

So yes, it will matter to some people, but probably not because of the lenses mentioned in the question. Some of those lenses, like Sigma 50-500, have been reported to be lying to camera about their maximum aperture in long end to get the Canon bodies attempt AF.

Imre
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    except serious customers who are the intended buyers for the camera will not buy the lenses you mention, they'll be using f/2.8 zooms and especially primes almost exclusively, unless those simply don't exist for the focal length. They're also not afraid of manual focus, and often will prefer it for situations requiring such long focal lengths. – jwenting Nov 07 '11 at 06:55
  • Yes, I can't think of a small aperture AF lens sold in the EOS mount that doesn't fudge it's way around the f/5.6 requirement. They'll autofocus, just don't expect them to perform as quickly or as well in low light. – AndrewStevens Dec 09 '11 at 22:48
  • @jwenting: Many of the longer super telephoto lenses used by the top sports and wildlife photographers are f/4 and f/5.6. Canon assumed most buyers of their extenders were using them instead of super telephoto lenses. What they heard from some of their most valuable and high profile customers is that they are using extenders with the super telephoto lenses. Can you imagine the waves it would have created if someone like Art Wolfe or Peter Reed Miller had jumped ship to Nikon? – Michael C Feb 07 '13 at 17:06
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I find the limitation of the 1DX to focus only for lenses with apertures less than 5.6 to be a major deficiency. I probably would not have bought the 1DX if I had done my homework beforehand. I have several lenses, including the canon 100 - 400 mm and the canon 800 mm lens which will not AF with a 1.4X extender, so I'll still need to carry my 1DMKIV for those long shots.

Bill Weaver
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    What is your opinion of the 1D X now that they have issued a firmware update to enable AF through f/8? Is AF usable with the 800mm + 1.4X extender? – Michael C Feb 07 '13 at 17:09
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This is no longer the case. Canon just announced a firmware update that will enable AF at f/8 using the center point.

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/about_canon/newsroom?pageKeyCode=pressreldetail&docId=0901e024806c36b1

bwDraco
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2

As all Canon lenses for which it is designed will work fine, the niggle is about other manufacturer's lenses, and perversely wanting to "see through a glass, as it were, darkly".F5.6 is already very slow. Its virtue in a lens is its far greater depth of field, such that if a machine can autofocus accurately at f/5.6 then more of the image will be sharp than at f/2 or f/2.8. Given enough light there is no advantage in using bug heavy expensive lenses, and canon has a whole range of good slower lenses. We just must pray that noise is at least as unobtrusive at high ISOs as a Nikon D700, for which you can buy cheap Nikkors and just ramp up the ISO.

As a 1Ds MkII devotee (the best DSLR ever made?) unless I am going into video bigtime there is no advantage in slightly increased resolution of a 1D-X, but boy, I want one because I am sure its autofocus will better than my machine and hopefully it will accurately render all colours, and by this I do mean red, red red, and blue. I just hope you do not have to see AF points onscreen all the time, as slower lenses greatly emphasise their presence. Slow lenses are good on high quality sensors, but as Canon rightly realised f/6.3 is too dark.

You can of course go out and buy focussing screens from Canon that are designed for manual focus, but f/6.3 is still too dark.

Imre
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peter harrap
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